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Registered user
Username: Doc

Post Number: 784
Registered: 2-2003

Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2015 - 5:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I came across something recently which I've been meaning to share on the forum here. It has to do with information theory.

Based on the work of Werner Gitt, a German professor who is also a Christian, various scientific laws of information have been formulated, which lead to some interesting conclusions.

Professor Gitt can be seen discussing this in this clip:

And he also has a website:

Just to summarise the main point of interest for ex-SDAs:
Law 1: A material entity cannot generate a non-material entity.
Law 2: Information is a non-material fundamental entity.
Law 3: Information cannot be created by statistical processes.
Law 4: Information can only be produced by an intelligent sender.

His main point in this is that the huge amount of coded information in the DNA of a single cell (equivalent to about 3 billion letters in humans) cannot have come about by chance, and also the "sender" must be immaterial, i.e. a spirit, i.e. God.
But he also mentions in passing, that man is also capable of creating information. Man is creative, he has a mind, an intellect, and can create new ideas, thoughts, artworks, etc., and he does not act simply according to instinct, or some prearranged "programming" like animals.

This leads to the conclusion that, as information is immaterial so it must have an immaterial source, that man must have an immaterial component as well as a material body, i.e. a soul/spirit.

This means, therefore, that the fact that man has a spirit/soul is shown not only from the Bible, but is also confirmed by the laws of science which govern information theory.

I thought that was awesome, but that could be because I am a geek.

Registered user
Username: Jonvil

Post Number: 696
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2015 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fellow geek here:-)
Here's an excerpt from 'Signature in the Cell' by Stephen Meyer that came to my mind when I read your post...

"So should we think of information as thought—as a kind of mental chimera etched in stone or burned onto compact discs? Or can we define information less abstractly as, perhaps, just an improbable
arrangement of matter?
Whatever information is—whether thought or an elaborate arrangement of matter—one thing seems clear. What humans recognize as information certainly originates from thought—from conscious intelligent activity. A message received via fax by one person first arose as an idea in the mind of another. The software stored and sold on a compact disc resulted from the design of a software engineer. The great works of literature began first as ideas in the minds of writers—Tolstoy, Austen, or Donne. Our experience of the world shows that what we recognize as information invariably reflects the prior activity of conscious and intelligent persons.
What, then, should we make of the presence of information in living organisms? The Human Genome Project, among many other developments in modern biology, has pressed this question to the forefront of public awareness. We now know that we do not just create information in our own technology; we also find it in our biology—and, indeed, in the cells of every living organism on earth. But how did this information arise? And what does the presence of information in even the simplest living cell imply about life and its origin? Who “wrote” the book of life?"
Registered user
Username: Doc

Post Number: 785
Registered: 2-2003

Posted on Saturday, May 23, 2015 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the quote. Stephen Meyer is a good speaker and the Intelligent Design movement has done some great work.
The point I was making, though, or trying to, is that the idea that man has an immaterial soul/spirit, which is denied by materialists, as well as SDAs and JWs, actually has sound scientific support.
Registered user
Username: Philharris

Post Number: 3145
Registered: 5-2007

Posted on Saturday, May 23, 2015 - 10:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I took the time to watch the video and thought it was rock solid great. So I posted it on Facebook and got no response from anyone. But then, I prefaced it with the statement that it was only for those willing to think.

Fearless Phil
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 15156
Registered: 12-2003

Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 11:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Adrian, that is awesome! I just now saw your post. That's a great conclusion, that immaterial reality cannot be generated by material reality. I hadn't thought of it in that way, and it's really compelling.

I've also been impacted by the Illustra Media productions demonstrating Intelligent Design, particularly the first two: "Privileged Planet" and "Unlocking the Mystery of Life". The first deals with the discoverability of the universe, and the second explores the data and the machines embedded within cells that could not have evolved because of their irreducible complexity.

Here is a link to Illustrate Media's homepage:


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