Post Number: 78
|Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 8:21 pm: || |
So He said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him,
Tools specific to Mar 7:19
“because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?”fn
Can someone help me with verse 19? My understanding is that there is some disagreement as to whether the phrase "thus purifying all foods" was Mark's interpretation, or was added by translators. Can someone on here help set the record straight for me? Forgive me if it has been discussed on here before.
Post Number: 3180
|Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2015 - 9:38 pm: || |
Perhaps reading from another translation and including the surrounding verses, starting at the begining of the chapter, might help. In this case the bible read in context gives the definition and meaning of verse 19 and should resolve the issue of the phrase in question:
And he called to him the multitude again, and said unto them, Hear me all of you, and understand: there is nothing from without the man, that going into him can defile him; but the things which proceed out of the man are those that defile the man. If any man hath ears to hear, let him hear. And when he was entered into the house from the multitude, his disciples asked of him the parable. And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Perceive ye not, that whatsoever from without goeth into the man, it cannot defile him; because it goeth not into his heart, but into his belly, and goeth out into the draught? This he said, making all meats clean. And he said, That which proceedeth out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, evil thoughts proceed, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, covetings, wickednesses, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, railing, pride, foolishness: all these evil things proceed from within, and defile the man. (Mark 7:14-23 ESV)
Jesus is explaining why the food you eat cannot pollute or defile the body. Only things that arise from the heart and comes out of the mouth defiles a person. In-other-words, the things that you say and do is what can defile that person. The overall topic is what does or does not defile a person. Food is only one of the examples. Eating with unwashed hands was also in question.
Post Number: 789
|Posted on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 1:32 am: || |
As far as the phrase is concerned, I checked the critical edition of the Greek, and it does not mention that these words are missing from any manuscripts, it's just that the ending of the word "cleansing" varies a bit.
Some claims are made online that the KJV and the earliest manuscripts e.g. Codex Sinaiaticus (IV. c.) do not have it, but I checked and they do.
So the claim "it must be a later addition", like so many other similar claims, is based on theological presuppositions rather than manuscript evidence. Because there is no manuscript evidence.
Comparing this passage with, say, Acts 10, there should be no problem that Jesus was declaring all foods clean.
Post Number: 79
|Posted on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 4:31 am: || |
Thanks Phil and Adrian.
That was most helpful in both respects and I appreciate you taking the time.
Post Number: 15272
|Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2015 - 1:28 pm: || |
I agree...most helpful, Phil and Adrian. Thank you!
That Mark passage was a paradigm-shift for me when I discovered it some years ago. It's still amazing to me how carefully and well Adventism was able to hide key biblical passages from us.
There is ONE thing we can do to protect us from deception once we are born again: consistent, contextual Bible study. People will always interpret Scriptural ideas to fit their own deep desires; they will even publish their ideas in books and magazines. The only way to know whether or not we are believing truth is to continue to immerse ourselves in God's word, praying that He will continue to teach us truth and show us reality.
He is faithful; He does not trick us! His word is imperishable and eternal, as Peter says at the end of 1 Peter 1. It amazes me how often Scripture confirms and repeats itself, confirming God's truth. Adrian's comparison of Acts 10 with Mark 7:19 is a great example of these confirmations which occur throughout the Bible!
Post Number: 1826
|Posted on Friday, November 06, 2015 - 12:57 pm: || |
In the earliest and best manuscripts available, Mark provides a very clear parenthetical statement emphasizing the magnitude of Christ’s declaration.
After He called the crowd to Him again, He began saying to them,“Listen to Me, all of you, and understand: there is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man. [“If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.”]
When he had left the crowd and entered the house, His disciples questioned Him about the parable. And He said to them,“Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him,because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?” (Thus He declared all foods clean.) Mark 7:14-19 (NASB)
Adventists, who continue to adhere to old covenant food laws, object to the inclusion of Mark’s parenthetical explanatory statement. Their objection is based primarily on the fact that the translators of the King James Bible (published in 1611) rendered the original Greek as,“purging all meats.” The transliterated Greek verb translated as “purging” in the KJV is katharizo. Strong’s Greek and Hebrew Dictionary states that the definition of katharizo is “to pronounce clean in a levitical sense.” As it is used in Mark 7:19, katharizo is in present tense, masculine participle, and active voice. It should be noted that Greek writers often used verbs in present tense to describe past actions as a way of conveying immediacy and to provide vividness to the story telling. The masculine participle and active voice would seem to indicate that Jesus is the one producing the action.
Given the Strong’s definition of katharizo, as well as tense, mood, and voice, a reasonably transparent rendering of the Greek phrase could be,“He is pronouncing kosher all meats.” My rather awkward, but literal, translation is in agreement with the approach used by nearly all modern translations in rendering katharizo as “He declared…clean” or other similar wording.
This view of the Greek also makes it clear that these are the words of Mark describing the actions of Christ and therefore modern translators are correct to enclose this phrase in parenthesis as Mark’s parenthetical explanatory statement. None the less, evangelicals believe that all Scripture is God-breathed and therefore inerrant. Therefore, Mark’s comment should be considered authoritative as it was inspired by God through the person of the Holy Spirit.
Post Number: 637
|Posted on Friday, November 06, 2015 - 2:30 pm: || |
I have a question for both Chris and Colleen;
Based on what you have both written, do you think Adventism could be:
a). the potential CAUSE of some learning disorders;
b). the RESULT of some learning disorders;
c). Or, alternatively is Adventism just based on lies that gullible people swallow without thinking about it too much;
d). All of the above.
Based on what you have said, and what I have noticed lately, it seems almost like Adventism is the cause of some sort of organic brain injury. I know it isn't, but still.......
Post Number: 1827
|Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2015 - 1:59 pm: || |
I'm going to go with option e).
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer. - 1 Timothy 4:1-5 (NASB)
Post Number: 149
|Posted on Monday, November 09, 2015 - 9:28 am: || |
God does not bless me because I deserve it or have earned the blessing. He blesses me because He chooses to.
If I am saved it does not mean I am a better person because I am saved. It merely means I have accepted the gift God so graciously offers.
Food is nothing one way or the other.
The reason Adventists (among others) love the idea of legalism is because with that arrangement they do not have to surrender to God.
(Message edited by CapRoss on November 09, 2015)
Post Number: 81
|Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2015 - 3:58 am: || |
Just re-read what you wrote. Very helpful. Thank you.
Post Number: 2248
|Posted on Sunday, November 22, 2015 - 6:22 am: || |
Based on what you have said, and what I have noticed lately, it seems almost like Adventism is the cause of some sort of organic brain injury. I know it isn't, but still......
The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. 15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts.
A hardened mind, a veil over the hearts, and a delusion that causes people to believe that a lie is the truth; all of these sound like the experience of SDAism. Where does it come from? I believe first and foremost from an infatuation with holding on to the Old Covenant. This is compounded by the results of continually compromising on truth.
Post Number: 15290
|Posted on Monday, November 23, 2015 - 1:32 pm: || |
I agree, Chris and Rick. Refusing to believe God's Word and re-interpreting its teachings and declarations is dishonest. Without integrity, a person will be a law unto himself, and truth will not have a part in his decisions and actions. He will begin to see reality through a grid of untruth, so any decisions or behaviors he embraces will be flawed because they are built on a false foundation.
Adventism DOES give people something resembling a mental illness...but it is the result of embracing untruth at the foundational level.