Post Number: 91
|Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 4:01 pm: || |
“Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. acts 2
So I had the great pleasure ( sarcasm) of hearing Doug Batchelor rhetoric the offer day. He uses the above as proof text for soul sleep. Of course he leaves out the verse where Paul says his soul was not left in Hades. Can all of you that are much smarter than me give me some advice on how to answer this?
Post Number: 15310
|Posted on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 10:49 am: || |
Not smarter...but perhaps equally annoyed! Doug is using this completely out of context. He is making the point (Acts 2:24-31) that David prophesied in the first person that God did not abandon his soul to Hades, nor did his flesh suffer decay. Yet, Peter explains, they all know that David himself is dead and in the grave. So...he is making the point that David was not speaking of himself but of his Son, Jesus, who was raised from the dead and seated at God's right hand.
Doug's use of this passage, yanking an SDA proof text right out of the middle of a profound explanation of David's prophecy that came true in the person of the Lord Jesus who is the Messiah is unconscionable.
Moreover, saying that they all know David was buried and is in the tomb to this day says NOTHING about David's spirit or where it is. But--Adventism doesn't believe in a spirit. So for an Adventist to say that because the Bible says David is dead and buried PROVES soul sleep is a straw-man argument. It doesn't even deal with the issue of "soul". Christians believe that their bodies lie in the grave until the resurrection. It's their spirits that are with Christ!
Post Number: 8
|Posted on Friday, January 08, 2016 - 11:28 am: || |
Batchelor is capitalizing on an ambiguity the KJV translation. The verbs for 'dead and buried' indicate past (completed) activity. A translation which would avoid an ambiguity in this case would be "he died and was buried" (check any modern translation). That's not to say KJV is wrong to say what it does. After all, if someone died, they are (currently) dead. The greek just isn't saying that the totality of David's current existence is his dead body in the tomb. It's literally saying he died and was buried (all in the past).
Greek scholars, feel free to correct me.
Post Number: 790
|Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 1:00 am: || |
The Greek verbs are in the aorist, so a translation with the simple past in English is appropriate. That means, you are correct :-)
Post Number: 8204
|Posted on Monday, January 25, 2016 - 2:48 pm: || |
Quote: Christians believe that their bodies lie in the grave until the resurrection. It's their spirits that are with Christ!
To finish that thought out 'or wherever their remains might be.
That brings up a thought of cremation. Lets take the example of a guy (or gal) takes a persons ashes and dumps them out of a plane over the sea at 150 mph. That would pretty well scatter a person out, and by the time he floats around in the currents, he's maybe pretty much world wide.
Soul sleep doesn't even make good sense, does it?
Post Number: 48
|Posted on Saturday, February 20, 2016 - 5:42 am: || |
David's body is in the tomb, but that doesn't say where his spirit is.
Post Number: 15340
|Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - 10:42 pm: || |
Xenonlion, exactly! :-)