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Not one sick or feeble1john2v27nlt9-04-17  2:05 pm
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Username: Kcaicedo

Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2014
Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2017 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Everyone,

as some of you know, my husband is SDA and I am not. I started to consider becoming a member, and started a bible study with his uncle that has just pushed me further and further away from the SDA church.

I am doing the Storacles bible study through Amazing Facts with his uncle. This week we are on the chapter of health. I am going to throw out the points in the bible study and would love your responses as I hope some of you have studied more on this than I have.

The points in the bible study:
1. Original diet of humans was fruit from the tree of life (Gen 1:29) and after the fall, veggies (Gen 3:18).

*MY THOUGHTS: I think after creations humans and animals may have been vegetarians.

2. No Israelite was sick when they came to the promised land (Ps. 105.37)

*MY THOUGHTS: This is odd, because while they were well cared for by the Lord, they still died (the original folks that left Egypt didn't make it to the promised land). They weren't so healthy that they skipped death.

3. Alcoholic Beverages are forbidden in scripture. Proverbs 23:29-32 and Proverbs 20:1 and there is a new wine of sweet grape juice Is 65:8

*MY THOUGHTS: I think about Jesus turning the water to wine. The hebrew culture would make sure to have wine at a wedding and would have the weakest/least tasty wine toward the end of the festivities since people may have had a little too much anyway to care. It was pointed out that Jesus had the best wine in abundance and a comment was made that it was better than what was served at the beginning of the wedding feast. I think we should be cautious with alcohol, but not necessarily say it is sinful in and of itself.

4. Eat only clean meat Lev 11:3, Lev 11:9, Lev 11:15,16 Eating unclean food is a serious offense Is 66:15,17 and those that do knowing that they shouldn't will be destroyed when Jesus returns

*MY THOUGHTS: I think those rules are like a shadow of what Jesus accomplished in His work. We are free to eat anything. I do think pork may not be healthy for us or bottom dwellers, etc... but I don't think you are sinning just by eating them

They have section arguing Peter's vision in Acts 10 as being about people and not food. The argument is below (copy and pasted):

"Understanding Peter's Vision

However, each time the sheet came down and Peter was asked to kill and eat the unclean animals, he responded, "Not so, Lord for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean." Acts 10:14. Notice that even after three and a half years of listening to Jesus' teaching, Peter had not received the slightest hint or impression that eating unclean food was permissible. It is also interesting to note that in his vision, Peter never took anything to eat from the sheet.

Peter's vision of the sheet was never intended to sanctify the eating of unclean animals. Peter himself explains the meaning of the vision in verse 28: "God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean." Again in verse 34, Peter summarized the point of the vision when he said, "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons."

God's message to Peter had to do with cleansing people, not animals. This vision was given to impress the Jewish disciples that they should not call the Gentiles unclean, and that the gospel was to be freely proclaimed to all peoples of the world."

I would love to hear your comments and help of what the bible says on all of the above.
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Username: Kcaicedo

Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2014
Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2017 - 2:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is another section from the bible study. I haven't ever thought about this and haven't ever assumed we, as christians could purify our food through prayer. Still would love your responses:

"Does Prayer Purify Food?
The warning in 1 Timothy 4:1-5 against a latter-day apostasy involves a number of heresies - following devils, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from certain foods. Perhaps the greatest misunderstanding has arisen over verse 4, where it is stated that "every creature of God is good." This verse means that every created thing has been made for a purpose. But some suppose it means that every animal is fit to be eaten if it is earnestly prayed over and blessed by the prayer of thanksgiving. This would mean that praying over a buzzard, cockroach, mole, or bat would make it good for food. Such an interpretation would be absurd and dangerous. "Be not deceived God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." Galatians 6:7.

To prevent us from drawing any wrong conclusions, Paul hastened to add: "For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." Verse 5. So the Word of God must first approve it, and then the prayer of thanksgiving will sanctify it to be eaten.

It is helpful to note that the word "meats" in the original language is not limited to flesh foods. The Greek word "broma" simply means "food." We can know that Paul's discussion does not involve biblically unclean animals, because the meats that some had forbidden were foods "which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth." Verse 3.

It is easy to find in the Scriptures a description of the food God created to be received with thanksgiving (Genesis 1:29 3:18 Leviticus 11:1-22). This passage was written to those who "believe and know the truth." God's Word is the truth. Only those who "believe and know" His Word will be led to those things that are "sanctified" and created to "be received with thanksgiving." Those who "sanctify themselves" while continuing to eat unclean meats will be destroyed at Christ's second coming (Isaiah 66:15-17)."
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Username: Jonasaras

Post Number: 60
Registered: 9-2012
Posted on Sunday, June 04, 2017 - 9:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

“For it doesn’t go into his heart but into the stomach and is eliminated.” (As a result, He made ALL foods clean. )”

“Eat everything that is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for conscience’ sake"

“One person believes he may eat anything, but one who is weak eats only vegetables.”

...for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.”

“Every living creature will be food for you; as I gave the green plants, I have given you everything. However, you must not eat meat with its lifeblood in it.”

“but instead we should write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from eating anything that has been strangled, and from blood.”

Anyone that has not been brainwashed can make sense of these unmistakably clear verses. This isn't complicated whatsoever.
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Username: Kcaicedo

Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2014
Posted on Monday, June 05, 2017 - 4:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Jonasaras for these references, this helps
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Username: Philharris

Post Number: 3243
Registered: 5-2007

Posted on Monday, June 05, 2017 - 7:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some quick thoughts:

1. The only command, which was a diet restriction, was to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Gen. 2:15-17. Able, who lived in a fallen world, just as we do, raised livestock and offered the first-born as a sacrifice to the Lord, Gen. 4:1-6. This implies he was a rancher who raised animals for food. Remember, there was no command not to eat meat. We live in a post-flood world, Gen. 9:1-4, where God gave the command about eating meat.

2. The command to eat the Passover lamb and the commands that defined 'clean and unclean' meat shows they were not vegetarian. Your point is a good one.

3. This is an outright lie. Getting drunk was a sin. All the Hebrew words for wine or similar drinks were alcoholic and the Hebrew people were commanded to simply use moderation.

4. This is another lie, Matt. 15:11 & Mark 7:15.

I personally have decided to not drink anything alcoholic for both health reasons and to serve as an example to my many friends who are recovering alcoholics. In faith I have the freedom to drink or not drink.
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Username: Resjudicata

Post Number: 797
Registered: 4-2014
Posted on Monday, June 05, 2017 - 8:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phil Harris,

Have you noticed how Adventists quickly judge you a drunk, if you argue that the Bible does not prohibit moderate consumption of alcohol?

I too, choose not to drink anything alcoholic, but the scriptures are just as clear that I am not allowed to judge another Christian if they choose to make a different choice. It is simply NOT an issue of Salvation.

And the Jewish Passover - among many Jewish rites - REQUIRED the consumption of alcohol.
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Username: Philharris

Post Number: 3244
Registered: 5-2007

Posted on Monday, June 05, 2017 - 9:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


I could have mentioned that Jesus (0n night of the Passover/Lord's Supper) drank wine (alcohol) and said that it represented his blood that he was about to shed on Calvary on that very night he was betrayed.

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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 15502
Registered: 12-2003

Posted on Friday, June 09, 2017 - 10:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kcaicedo, God gave Noah everything that moves to eat after the flood. Read Genesis 9:1-6. The clean meat restrictions were only for Israel, and they were part of the laws of separation God established to keep the Israelites from freely fellowshipping with the Canaanites.

If people are free to eat together, it is very hard to keep from becoming close and to sharing life. God knew He had to keep the Israelites from being able to stay separated from the pagan gentiles in order to preserve the godly seed.

Peter's vision was absolutely about food as well as gentiles. Adventists simply do not read that vision in Acts 10 in context. Right after the vision, Peter is asked to go to the Roman gentile home of Cornelius, where he preached the gospel and the first group of gentiles received Jesus and were filled with the Holy Spirit. It was absolutely forbidden by the law for a Jew to go to the home of a gentile. In a gentile him, the Jew would have to eat the food of the gentiles and participate in their lifestyle.

God was directly commanding Peter to set aside the old covenant restriction on unclean food. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have been able to go to Cornelius's home and stay for several days, as he did. It was absolutely unlawful for a Jew to eat gentile food.

God lifted the food restrictions because His old covenant separation of clean and unclean people, which included their foods, had been destroyed in the body of Christ on the cross (see Ephesians 2:14 and Colossians 2:14-15).

That vision was about food exactly as much as it was about people because the two were inseparable. Adventist absolutely refuse to read that vision in context, and the teach it wrongly. In addition, they create an argument about the 1 Timothy passage and say that unclean animals aren't food.

Wrong again. Without the Mosaic food laws, all things are given for food as per Genesis 9.

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Username: Anewman

Post Number: 131
Registered: 5-2011
Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2017 - 6:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


I have a bit of a similar situation. I have been married 21 years. When we meet, my wife was not practicing SDA, but 11 years in, she announced she was going back.

I did not even know what it was - I thought it was just a denomination that chose to worship on Saturday.

Many hard days have followed as in the beginning, I took her decision as a rejection of me - and abandonment of me. I have recently realized her decision is a rejection of the true saving gospel of Christ, and it is not my job to save her but to love her and my children as Christ loved the church.

I still struggle mentally - the more I learn and understand, the more frustrated I sometimes become wondering how anyone can believe this.

Anyway, my experience is that my wife or most SDAs are not interested in understanding anything that contradicts what they believe. So, I am learning to really turn it over to God.

Let me know if I can be of assistance.

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Username: Resjudicata

Post Number: 798
Registered: 4-2014
Posted on Saturday, June 10, 2017 - 8:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


I don't want to derail the thread, but your analysis of Acts 10 is spot on. It was against the law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile. Or to even be inside their home. Even worse, Gentiles were prohibited from being inside the Temple or the Synagogues. Gentiles who entered the Temple or a synagogue were to be summarily executed. And even worse than that, associating with Gentiles inside the synagogue on the Sabbath was a first-order violation of the Sabbath. Ephesians 2 makes it clear that the law was a "wall of hostility" between Jew and Gentile.

So when the Apostles preached to the Gentiles in the synagogues on the Sabbath, they were engaged in deliberate, knowing, willful Sabbath breaking. It is a clear statement that they believed that the law had been fulfilled and was no longer applicable to them.

This "Wall of Hostility" notion has always intrigued me. When I was in Europe, I had a Jewish girlfriend who taught me how Jews view and analyze the Law as a strategic and tactical WEAPON, that protects Jews from Gentiles ("Gentiles" would be me and you). Remember the scene in the Indiana Jones movie where the Nazis' faces were melted off by the Ark of the Covenant? That's not fantasy, that is actually what the Mishnah TEACHES! The Jews could not lose a battle as long as the Ark of the Covenant was carried by the Levites at the front of a battle column. Inside the Ark was of course the Tablets of stone and the Sabbath. God COMMANDED the Israelites to pitilessly-exterminate the Gentile tribes that surrounded the Promised Land. The Sabbath inside the Ark of the Covenant was part of their strategic weaponry to carry out God's command to exterminate the Gentiles.

Thus, the Sabbath was carried INSIDE of the Israelite's major strategic weapon, and used to slaughter the Gentiles!

My girlfriend (the Talmud teaches this too) taught me that the Sabbath was also often used by Jews to ferret out Gentile spies, who were pretending to be Jews. This is why Gentiles were prohibited - on pain of death - from Sabbath Keeping, according to the rulings of God's-ordained Courts (Deuteronomy 17). Since the Sabbath has many intricate, choreographed rites for properly keeping it (based on the rulings of the Jewish Courts) it was easy to discover Gentile spies who were in violation of any part of it. Jews used the Sabbath both to protect themselves from Gentiles and to build an impermeable wall against the "Gentile Nations."

I think Matthew 1's genealogy of Jesus's Davidic bloodline demonstrates God's reasoning for such stark separation between Jew and Gentile. Both Circumcision and the Law's prohibition against marrying Gentiles made intermarriage just about impossible. There was to be no mistaking that Jesus Christ was a direct bloodline descendant from King David. This could only be accomplished by drawing a sharp and impermeable "wall of hostility" between Jew and Gentile.
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Username: Polgarahh

Post Number: 37
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2017 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


You are right, your wife hasn't abandoned you, she abandoned the gospel of Christ. But don't give up on her! Just as she needs Christ now more than ever, she also needs YOU more than ever, irrespective of what she thinks and says.

This means that YOU must be strong in your faith, more than ever! If your faith weakens, you'll both lose the battle!

There are some things you can do. One of the most important things you can do in this respect is showing your wife your faith! She should not think that it is you who is unfaithful and weak. For example, read the Bible when she can see you. Pray in front of her, for instance, before eating or before sleep. She doesn't need to hear your prayer, she only should see you praying. Slowly but surely, she'll be puzzled. "How could he have such strong faith when he's not a member of the church?" This question does miracles in heads of the Adventists. Depending on the spiritual condition and character of your wife, it could take months or even years before she asks herself this question. So, be patient and don't give up!

Also, it is very important that you KINDLY refuse to visit the Adventist "church", that you KINDLY refuse to read anything published by Adventists, and in particular anything written by Ellen G. White. Just keep repeating (kindly!) "The Bible is my guide and I don't want any external influence to interfere in my reading and understanding the Bible. I only accept the influence of the Holy Spirit. I want to listen only to Him."

Be kind and gentle and PRAY, pray and pray! For you, for her, for your children, pray all the time! When she can see you and when she can't!

From time to time, when the opportunity arises, try to talk to her, but CAREFULLY! Don't try to persuade her or to change her mind. Here's one of really effective methods for such discussions: Ask two or three easy questions she can answer promptly. Don't contradict her, even if your stomach hurls at the stupidity of her argument. Afterwards, ask her ONE really tricky question, something she can never answer as an Adventist. But this question should sound "natural" to her. You should ask this question so that it sounds that YOU need an answer! And actually, the tricky question is not asked because you need an answer. It's asked with one specific purpose: to make her THINK! To make her search for the answer!

For instance: You first ask her: When was the Sabbath given to people? She'll tell you: Well, in the Garden of Eden. Then you ask her to show you the verse in the Bible. She'll readily quote Genesis 2:1-3. Okay, perfect. You don't contradict this, irrespective of its absurdity! Just take a deep breath and ask her: "If Adam received the command to rest on the seventh day, did he also receive the command to work for six days first? Just like in the Fourth Commandment?" She must affirm that question, because it's inevitable. The seventh-day command really commands six-day work first. Once she admits this, here comes a BOMB question she cannot answer (and she doesn't have to answer to you at all): "Adam was created on Friday. How could Adam work for six days before resting on the seventh, if he was created on the sixth day?"

She'll probably try to work around the question and to find a poor explanation. Whatever she replies, she won't be able to find any reference in the Bible to support her answer. Whatever she answers, you ask her: "Which verse is that?"

But don't contradict her! Once she realizes that she cannot answer your question with the Bible, tell her: "Okay, this question is really tricky. Maybe we should both think about it for a couple of days." Let her ask around, let her ask her pastor, or read books to find the answer (she won't find it). After a couple of days, ask her if she found the answer. Remind her of that question on a regular basis, but act as if really, really curious. You can even tell her: "This question really bothers me. If I could answer that question with the Bible, I will finally believe that Adam was really given the Sabbath command in the garden of Eden."

Motivate her to do this thinking! She'll think she is doing it for you, to convince you into becoming an SDA (you have never promised her that, you only promised that you'll believe that Adam was given the Sabbath command in the Eden, and that does not make you an SDA). She'll think your coming to your senses!

But something else will happen. She won't find that answer. And the more she searches for it (with the goal of convincing you), she'll be more and more frustrated with the Adventist theology. Whenever an Adventist mentions somewhere that the Sabbath was given to Adam, this question will pop up in her head, along with her frustration and failure to find the answer.

Two or three such strategical and impossible-to-answer questions will suffice. A truly honest and sincere Christian won't be indifferent! Even if she pretends she is!

I was the first in my family to leave the SDA. My parents were so angry at me, that they refused to finance my high education. I had to study and work at the same time, in another city, in another country, alone and poor as a street dog. But I did not give up. I finished my university education. My parents heard that I graduated and finally melted a bit. They visited me, expecting to see "a desperate young woman who has lost her faith", but they were surprised to see me as strong as never before! When they visited me, all I could talk about with them was God and God's great work in me! "Oh, you must hear how God answered my prayers last year!" They were puzzled. How was this even possible? Our daughter abandoned "the truth"! How could she keep her faith? And why does God even listens to her prayers if she "abandoned" the truth?

They said nothing at that time. But it did happen (they admitted this only years later). However, they remained in contact with me. I also used the above described strategy (questions without contradicting anything) whenever we met and talked.

Two years later, both my parents abandoned Adventism. They admitted to me: When we saw you, so full of faith, and when we compared you today with you before, there was a HUGE difference! And when we visited the church on the next Sabbath, we were so disappointed! We could not "feel" that spiritual strength you expressed a couple of days before! All our Adventist brothers and sisters sounded so FAKE when compared to your sincere faith!

So, be strong! Be patient! LOVE her and pray for her. She'll budge eventually. On the other hand, if you contradict her, she'll only get even more convinced that she's right. It's how the Adventists are programmed to think. But, people can also be re-programmed, and I witnessed such changes in many people, not only in my parents. Patience, love, prayer, faith, these are your weapons.

I know it's tough. I KNOW it's hard. But trust me, the harder it is now, the more glorious it will be later!

Don't just "let God do everything". No, that's not a good attitude. You must also do something! Do your part of the work, and God will surely do His part of the work. There is an ancient folk story you should know:

There was a man who couldn't swim. One day, he fell into a lake and were about to drown. "Oh Lord, help me, I am going to drown!" he shouted. Nothing happened. The man was sinking deeper and deeper. Again, he shouted: "Lord Jesus, why are you forsaking me? I am going to drown if you don't help me! I was always faithful, I never abandoned you! Why won't you help me?" And indeed, Jesus Christ spoke from the heaven and told him: "I want to help you. But please, move your arms and legs a bit!"

BE STRONG! God won't fail you!
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Username: Kcaicedo

Post Number: 10
Registered: 11-2014
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All the comments helped me a lot. Thank you!

Polgarahh, I know your comment was for someone else, but I'm going to apply it also to my situation. It encourages me to be proactive in this while trusting God.

I have another post in regards to eat or not eat, but I'm going to make a new thread. It's something I discovered while studying the bible and going through the SDA study with my husband's uncle.
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Username: Asurprise

Post Number: 3537
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kcaicedo; Noah brought 7 clean animals and 2 unclean of each species into the ark. SDAs like to use that to say that the unclean animals were "unclean" because they were not to be eaten, yet Noah and his family were not accustomed to eating ANY meat because after the flood God told them: "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything." Genesis 9:3.

But in Leviticus 20:24-26, God separated Israel from the Gentiles. They were to THEREFORE separate themselves from unclean meats. Yet, SDAs try to make this about health instead of separation from the Gentiles.

And then in Acts 10, Peter realized from his vision that the law regarding separation from the Gentiles, represented by not eating unclean meats was no longer in place.

(Also notice again how God told Noah and his family they could eat "every moving thing that lives.")
I hope this helps...
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Username: Philharris

Post Number: 3245
Registered: 5-2007

Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only thing I will never eat again is menudo soup or fake meat or other soy products such as tofu. Other than that I'm willing to eat pretty much anything including okra or eggplant if cooked right. As for the pig you can feed me high on the hog or even low on the hog, it make little difference to me.

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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 15504
Registered: 12-2003

Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2017 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great post, Polgarahh!

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Username: Paxel

Post Number: 41
Registered: 8-2011

Posted on Friday, August 25, 2017 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i have yet too see a answer for this scripture in regards to #3 on your list :
Deu_14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

Notice: not just wine but "strong drink" and in hebrew it is a intoxicant

Moderation is the problem not the substance its your abuse that leads to drunkenness "sin".
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Username: Asurprise

Post Number: 3544
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Friday, September 01, 2017 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There isn't anything wrong with drinking alcohol. The Bible just says not to get drunk - Ephesians 5:18.

(Message edited by Asurprise on September 01, 2017)
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Username: Resjudicata

Post Number: 802
Registered: 4-2014
Posted on Saturday, September 02, 2017 - 9:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I analyzed Paul's recommendation to the Corinth Christians to eat pork that had been offered to idols, if you are on Facebook.
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Username: 1john2v27nlt

Post Number: 565
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Monday, September 04, 2017 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Res, I just clicked on your link above & got this: "This post has been removed or could not be loaded."
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Username: Resjudicata

Post Number: 809
Registered: 4-2014
Posted on Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1 John 2V,

I am trying to figure out what happened on Facebook. In the meantime, here is the post.

Here's my outrageously-abrasive analysis of Paul's command to the Christians of Corinth to eat pork that had been offered to idols:

Paul advised the Christians of Corinth to eat pork that had been offered to idols, in 1 Corinthians 8-10. His main limitation on this outrageous advice was cheeky. It was "Do not ask, do not tell" "What you don't know can't hurt you."
Are you shocked? Are you dismayed? Are you outraged?

It's true. I know, I know. It's a hard habit to break after decades of smugly-eating fake soy Filet Mignon out of a can. But first, take a close-look a a good scholarly-refutation of my outrageous claim. It may give you some peace of mind. You might just say: "There goes old Res Judicata again, blowing hot air out of his silly neck hole. No way did Paul tell Christians to eat pork offered to idols. Ol' Res is full of it." The following superb scholarly analysis is the best one I have found. But here is the troubling "money-shot" that is the central flaw in its argument:

"The celebrations of many cults were closely bound up with civic and social life since religion and politics were indivisible in ancient Hellenistic city life. If Christians took part in civic life, they would have been expected to participate in a festivals sacrificial meals in some form of another. The imperial cult, which frequently combined state craft with stagecraft, was especially important to Corinthian citizens, and sacrifices were part of the Isthmian games. Winter concludes: Over-confident and weak Christians alike were in danger, such was the power of privilege and the importance of the imperial cult, and more so when it was established on a federal basis and celebrated in Corinth."

The writer of that article has never been to Ancient Corinth. And I say that with deep regret. Oh how I wished that article was true, when I was in Corinth, trying to salvage some tiny morsel of my fatally-battered Adventist belief system. But the "facts on the ground" in Greece simply annihilate Adventism. Corinth was one of the worst.

The article does not mention a single word about the central landmark in Corinth. The epicenter of pagan religious ceremonies was the notorious Corinthian Temple of Aphrodite that towered above the city. You cannot miss it. Rest assured, "communal meals" were NOT what the Temple of Aphrodite was famous for. It was the ancient world's most notorious whorehouse. Here's an accurate summary of the Temple of Aphrodite (and Corinth), and what the economic powerhouse of the city:

"Nothing gets a classical scholar’s heart pumping like the sacred prostitutes of Corinth, the Greek port that is depicted as the free-living “Amsterdam of the ancient world.” After landing at the Corinthian docks, sailors would apparently wheeze up the thousand-odd steps to the top of a stunning crag of rock called the Acrocorinth, which offered 360-degree vistas of the sparkling Mediterranean. There they would pass beneath the marble columns of the Temple of Aphrodite, goddess of Beauty and Love, within whose incense-filled, candlelit confines 1,000 comely girls supposedly worked around the clock gathering funds for their deity. Since the Renaissance, this idea had gripped antiquarians, who liked to imagine that congress with one of Aphrodite’s servants offered a mystical union with the goddess herself — uninhibited pagans coupling in ecstasy before her statue in the perpetual twilight of the temple."

As part and parcel of the pagan sexual rites performed at the Temple, THOUSANDS of pigs were sacrificed daily. The Greeks have a TERRIBLE mania about sacrificing pigs. There is no other animal that is a worthy sacrifice to the gods, in the Greek mind. Their nasty addiction to sacrificing pigs and their love of pork is fully set out in 1 Maccabees 1:47 and 1:62-63: If you refused to eat pork that had been sacrificed to idols, the Greeks could get downright ugly, as shown in 2 Maccabees 7.

The pigs that were sacrificed at the Temple of Aphrodite in Corinth were NOT eaten inside the Temple. There were no "communal meals" as envisioned in the Vanderbuilt University article. In fact, the Temple of Aphrodite was not primarily a local phenomena.

Corinth sits on a very narrow isthmus. In the 1800's, the French cut a canal through the isthmus, much like they did with the Suez Canal in Egypt; and tried to do with the Panama Canal. The French were famous canal diggers. But in Paul's era, the Roman galleons would be dragged out of the water, and rolled across the Isthmus on hundreds of logs. Thousands of local Corinthians were paid for this job. It was brutal work.

Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of sailors visited the Temple of Aphrodite every year, while their boats were being moved across the Isthmus. The Temple catered to foreign sailors. Each sailor that enjoyed the Temple of Aphrodite had to buy a pig to be sacrificed. But there was no time to eat a communal meal. They had to hurry back to their ship. It took about four hours to yank those ships across the Isthmus. No time for each sailor to eat an entire pig at a communal meal. Much of the pork was resold to the ships, as food for the crews or as export. What a racket they had at Corinth! The sailors would buy a pig, and then the ship owners would buy it AGAIN!

The Temple of Aphrodite was the economic driver of Ancient Corinth. After the pigs were sacrificed, the pork was taken to the meatmarkets in downtown Corinth, and resold. Remember, this is thousands of pigs every day. Virtually the only meat that you could buy in the meat market was pork. It flooded the market every day. Farmers in the Corinth area exclusively-raised pigs. It was obviously the most lucrative thing to raise, since cattle, lambs, and chickens were not allowed as sacrifices. The irrefutable proof of this is obvious, if you ever have a chance to visit Ancient Corinth. And here is Paul's devastating "money-shot," from 1 Corinthians 10:

"25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for conscience’ sake; 26 for “the earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness. 27 If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience’ sake. 28 But if anyone says to you, “This was offered to idols,” do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience’ sake."

In other words, "Don't ask, Don't Tell. What you don't know won't hurt you." Once you understand the "lay of the land" and how the economy of Ancient Corinth worked, the evidence is simply unanimous and irrefutable. It is terrible being an Adventist in Corinth. Your Adventism will not last a day.

I'm sorry if I have ruined your day, but this is the truth. Paul advised the Ancient Corinthians to eat pork sacrificed to idols.
Registered user
Username: Philharris

Post Number: 3256
Registered: 5-2007

Posted on Friday, September 08, 2017 - 6:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Ruined my day"?
Registered user
Username: Resjudicata

Post Number: 810
Registered: 4-2014
Posted on Friday, September 08, 2017 - 10:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


You can console yourself, like I do.

Sit out in the Walmart parking lot and gobble an entire can of Veja-links.

You should see the way that people look at me when I do that!
Registered user
Username: Philharris

Post Number: 3257
Registered: 5-2007

Posted on Friday, September 08, 2017 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fact I cannot overlook:

As a teenager Loma Linda products made me deathly sick. So, I've not eaten fake meat since...even before no longer pretending I was a good Adventist boy. Oh, the nearest Walmart is twenty miles away which is a long block away from the nearest SDA church.

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