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Indy4now
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Username: Indy4now

Post Number: 1096
Registered: 2-2008


Posted on Saturday, August 17, 2019 - 5:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Itís been the longest time since Iíve been on here... Itís been fun looking down through the threads to read the different topics.

I got on here today because on Sunday I am meeting with a small group at our church. They are studying Christian cults and want to understand and hear about Adventism.

When I was studying my way out of Adventism, I remember that we used to always talk about the words or concepts that are common between Christianity and Adventism yet had very different meanings to each group. For example, ďgraceĒ. Adventistís talk about grace... which they think they are coming from the same definition that Christians believe about grace... and what they say sounds good to a Christian. But the Christian doesnít know that the Adventistís definition of grace is different.

I have in mind things that I want to tell the group... but I think I only have an hour... yikes... itís a lot to ask to condense the errors of Adventism into 1 hour!

So Iím curious... what are some of the clear differences or concepts between Adventism and Christianity that you would bring up to a small group of Christians. What are the concepts you feel are most important to talk about? ...I know, this is loaded question!

~vivian
Leifl
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Username: Leifl

Post Number: 228
Registered: 3-2014


Posted on Saturday, August 17, 2019 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Atonement: How (and when) God and man are brought together.

In Christianity, God and man were brought together by Jesus Christ, through incarnation and specifically by the act of shedding his blood on Calvary, when the atonement was completed in him and by him. Tetelestai. Paid in full. Fait accompli. "The buck stops here." C'est tout, c'est la fin. It is finished. Hook, line, and sinker. Lock, stock, and barrel. How every you wish to communicate the finality and absolute and definite completion of this act.

Adventists see atonement as a process, which includes Jesus death on Calvary, AND his "work in the Holy of Holies" since 1844, AND the purification of our character, AND the final "laying of our sins on Satan" when he pays for the sins of God's people in full.

In truth, salvation is based on God's act of atonement. Only through atonement the way is made for us to become part of God's family. He unilaterally drew his people to himself through that act, "If I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Unless we accept the Biblical testimony of what the atonement is, and maintain that this is the ONLY door of salvation, I really don't think we can be saved, because Jesus said, "He who seeks to climb in any other way is a thief and a robber."

So, how can one be saved if they trust in the lie that Jesus is making "final atonement" since 1844? Or for those trying to purify their characters so they can stand before a holy God without a mediator? Or for those who anticipate that Satan will be the one who makes FINAL ATONEMENT for them through paying the debt of their sins by bearing their punishment? These "other ways" of being reunited with God, Adventists believe. The Apostle Paul said, "Beware lest anyone cheat you of your reward."

Those who trust in their prayers to Mary and have candles lit and masses said so that they can escape hell have their faith misplaced. So do Adventists.

Atonement would be my biggest issue with Adventist teaching, because I think that, above all other errors, this point of their doctrine is a damning heresy.

(Message edited by leifl on August 17, 2019)
Jcd826512
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Username: Jcd826512

Post Number: 16
Registered: 1-2019
Posted on Monday, August 19, 2019 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi There,

I am not a theologian, nor do I have years of study on this topic under my belt. What I do have is my entire lifetime until January/February of 2019 as an Adventist with 12 years of adventist schooling ending in 1980.

My biggest "beef" with adventist theology is that it makes Jesus Christ very small. This is done by making adventists responsible for some portion of their salvation, thus diminishing Christ.

As an ex adventist, I see salvation as a pie chart. Unless the chart is 100% Jesus, it's an impossibility. Adventist teaching (at least the way I was taught) had a lot of me in the chart... and this lessened Jesus; it discouraged me; and it made it very hard to Trust Jesus... because what if I wasn't measuring up to expectations on the day that my name came up?

There is also the elephant in the room, that EGW is a false prophet, which should be enough right there.
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 15596
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Thursday, August 22, 2019 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, Vivian! How did your meeting go?

Just for future reference, here are a couple of Proclamation articles that might help:

http://www.lifeassuranceministries.org/proclamation/2015/4/whatisseventh-da.html

http://blog.lifeassuranceministries.org/2018/06/13/jesus-is-not-an-old-covenant-priest/

The language is so similar, but the definitions are SO different!

In Jesus,
Colleen
Indy4now
Registered user
Username: Indy4now

Post Number: 1097
Registered: 2-2008


Posted on Saturday, August 24, 2019 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Meeting went well! Thx for the links!!

I had asked my pastor previously about whether this study group had some OT knowledge or not. They had a brochure printed by ROSE publishing which had Christian Cults on one side and World religions on the other. I thought that the synopsis on Adventism was thorough and concise. To me, Adventism has so many nooks and crannys that I was impressed that they could put concise statements in 1 column. It seems like Adventism would need their own flyer! Ha! Anyway, the group had a little heads up. Which was nice.

So I decided to focus on explaining the IJ on a white board. At the top, I drew a timeline and added the cross event at the beginning... then nothing else on the timeline. Jesus died at the cross. He redeemed us. We are forgiven. Atonement was finished and then.... thereís nothing else on that timeline. SIMPLE.

Then I introduced the SDA timeline... lol! Thereís the cross... then 1843... then 1844... sins are ďpardonedĒ but not completely wiped out because then they are place on Satanís head at the end of time. Good grief... SDA timeline is a MESS!!!

The reason I stuck with teaching them the IJ was because I believe strongly that to attempt a discussion on the sabbath is a waste of time. Really, our discussions should be always about what Jesus did for us at the cross... Thatís where Adventism skews the gospel.

So the one thing I didnít plan to talk about was the culture of SDA... what it looked like to live and grow up in an adventist home. They were VERY interested in what life was like as an Adventist.

~vivian
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 15597
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, August 27, 2019 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vivian, good for YOU!! You totally chose the right focus! That is awesome!

The lifestyle issues are compelling as well...it's where the rubber meets the road, and Christians sometimes "see" the problems better when they "observe" the way it feels to live Adventist.

I'm so thankful for how the Lord led you to present!

Colleen

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