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Registered user
Username: Freedom55

Post Number: 111
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2021 - 9:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Recently I was readying Matt 22:31-32 where Jesus stated "Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, God said, "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." So he is the God of the living, not the dead."
So even though it was clear that these guys were dead, God considered them still living. This seems to imply that even though their physical bodies had disintegrated in death, something lived on. Could that be their soul?
Any thoughts on this text? Thanks.
Registered user
Username: Leifl

Post Number: 245
Registered: 3-2014

Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2022 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think you are on the right track!

John 11:25-26
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Whoever believes in Jesus SHALL NEVER DIE. That is what Jesus said, and I don't have any reason to doubt it.

I think this is the first post of 2022. Happy New Year everyone!

(Message edited by leifl on January 04, 2022)
Registered user
Username: Butterfly_poette

Post Number: 443
Registered: 5-2011

Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 - 6:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Adventists are wrong with their theology. When Jesus told the thief on the cross "Today you will be with me in Paradise," He really meant it.
Registered user
Username: Freedom55

Post Number: 112
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2022 - 7:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also came across this verse from Hebrews 11:23 (NLT) "And you have come to the spirits of the redeemed in heaven who have now been made perfect".
This is an amazing verse.
Registered user
Username: Freedom55

Post Number: 113
Registered: 3-2008
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2022 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In the context of the entire book of Hebrews, the writer is advancing the superiority of the new covenant over the older covenant. In Hebrews 12:18-24, the writer is contrasting the old covenant (vs. 18-21) with the new covenant (vs. 22-24). In contrast to the fear & terror experienced at Mt. Sinai, the new covenant believers enter into a celebration of love with angels, fellow believers, the saints in heaven and with Jesus. Any comments??

(Message edited by Freedom55 on March 06, 2022)
Registered user
Username: Anewman

Post Number: 136
Registered: 5-2011
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2022 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This from an Adventist friend of mine if anyone cares to weigh in. I know itís like casting pearls before swine, and itís hard for me to leave it lie. :-)

Good thoughts thank you..
How come you're not a pastor?

I enjoyed reading through the interpretation and the scriptures you shared. It surely is a deep topic to understand. And I won't pretend that it's cut and dried.

Just to banter a bit, since i enjoyed reading your points.

What did you think of Strong's Concordance point that 12 of the 14 mentions of "hell" in the Bible (compared with over 600 references to 'heaven') are literally a use of the phrase "Valley of Hinnom" (Gahenna), a very real place at Jerusalem. It seems rather flimsy to me for Catholics to base an entire doctrine on such scanty remaining references (including a Greek parable filled with symbolism 'Rich Man & Lazarus'), when throughout the Bible we read about "perish," or the "sleep" of death.

Yes, there are a handful of statements about "the smoke of their torment rise forever," but the Bible also speaks of "Sodom and Gomorrah suffering eternal fire." Figurative, symbolic language. 'Death' is mentioned as the final reward of the wicked pervasively in scripture, in my opinion.

While I have no problem thinking of my dad in heaven (and would prefer it perhaps), I have a hard time then making any sense of Daniel 12 (or 1 Cor. 15 and 1 Thes. 4) without reading how the dead sleep until the Resurrection. Further, in sermons I've listened to from evangelicals who I respect (Max Lucado and others) unfortunately the Resurrection becomes a very muddy, confusing doctrine to explain if we have living souls that are already instantly in heaven.

But undoubtedly, the more troubling doctrine to me is the doctrine of eternal torment which comes hand in hand with an eternal soul. To me, the scriputral references for this doctrine are so scanty when compared with the weight of scripture which speaks of "eternal life" being a "gift" given to the righteous, while the reward or "wages" of the wicked is consistently spoken of as "death." (John 3:16, Romans 3 & 6)

Now, imagine you'd been holding your hand over the hot stove or a match the whole time while reading this email. Intolerable. I don't believe scripture teaches, nor the character of God (called "love") allows, eternal torture of any created being. "There shall be no more crying, or pain... for the former things are passed away. Behold I make all things new." (Rev. 21)

If our Granny's are in heaven already when we arrive, nobody will be happier than I am, I have no problem with that (and obviously at least some have been invited to heaven already, like Moses and Elijah, so I believe special allowances are made). But on the other hand, if my atheist uncle is boiling in a flame (or one of our children, God forbid), I will never be able to worship God as "love" nor enjoy his presence for eternity. Horrible.

Fortunately, that's not what I believe the weight of scripture teaches. "Whosoever believes in Him shall not 'perish,' but has eternal life."

Thanks for letting me share my thoughts.

I do look forward to hanging out with you guys as the days warm up, I enjoy hearing your thoughts and respect and admire you a lot. Go read Daniel 12.
Registered user
Username: Butterfly_poette

Post Number: 444
Registered: 5-2011

Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2022 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have had a tough time dealing with the concept of Hell myself. I hate the idea of people being tormented forever, but then I am now thinking that Hell must exist after all. I still do hope that it is not true, and that Hell only lasts a short time. I do know that Jesus does not want people to go to Hell, if there is one or not.
I also wonder about the state of the dead, and now I am thinking that the righteous people do go to Heaven to be with their Lord. I lost my mother 5 months ago to cancer, and I have been hoping that she is in Heaven now with her mother, who passed away 52 years before she did. My mother always missed her mother for those 52 years.

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