| Author | Message | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 146 Registered: 1-2007  |
The Pastor at the SDA church that I used to attend sent me this email with a link to the Dark Day of 1780. the message basically said "When people question if the Dark Day of 1780 was a big enough deal to be fulfillment of prophecy, you can tell them that it is still making news today". Than the link to the article http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/05/dayintech_0519?npu=1&mbid=yhp&ybf1=1 Now, I find it hard to believe that this could ever be fulfillment of prophecy and to only affect New England. | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 218 Registered: 11-2007 |
You and me both! Just seems a teeny weeny bit contrived. Don't get me started on whacky prophecy interpretations! They may not eat baloney, but they manufacture and sell quite a bit. Kind of hypocritical don't you think? Ha. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 5314 Registered: 3-2004  |
Pnoga, Thanks for that link. I had forgotten about all the dark day, bloody moon or whatever. Now I find out the dark day was caused by a wild fire and not some supernatural phenomenon. Diana | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 785 Registered: 5-2007  |
First, you have to ask what prophecy is he referring to. He doesn't say. Then, you must check to see who the Bible is speaking to. Above all else, we must always take a Bible passage within its context. Local events don't mean much to people in other parts of the world. For instance, during the 1930s and 40s, it would have seemed like the time of the Tribulation if you were in Europe, but not so in other parts of the world. Adventist theologians have a narrow of a view of prophecy and this is a classic use of alluding to a "proof text" to assume a point. This pastor didn't bother with giving any context. Last winter there was major flooding all around me. If I were to have used Adventist logic, I could have thought it was the end of the world. In fact, I was trapped in a situation where I could have been killed. However, thinking this was the end of the world is to forget that God promised he would never destroy the (whole) world with water. Local events, unless a prophecy is directed specifically at a certain person or place, can not be considered fulfillment of that prophecy. Phil | ||
| Lucias Registered user Username: Lucias Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2002 |
Ah yes the dark day, the moon to blood and the falling stars. The earthquake and even the pestilence had begun. I think her words were "soon the dead and dying will be all around us". The meteors were the regularly scheduled Lenoids. I'm with you on it would seem that the prophecy would apply to more than New England. | ||
| Dt Registered user Username: Dt Post Number: 98 Registered: 4-2005 |
Matthew 24:29,30 says: 29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. So, has the time of trouble already been here? I thought that was after the National Sunday Law etc. DT | ||
| Brian3 Registered user Username: Brian3 Post Number: 173 Registered: 8-2005 |
Time of trouble for who? Isa 13:1-19 HCSB An oracle against Babylon that Isaiah son of Amoz saw:... Look, the day of the LORD is coming--cruel, with rage and burning anger--to make the earth a desolation and to destroy the sinners on it. (10) Indeed, the stars of the sky and its constellations will not give their light. The sun will be dark when it rises, and the moon will not shine. ... (17) Look! I am stirring up the Medes against them, who cannot be bought off with silver and who have no desire for gold. (18) Their bows will cut young men to pieces. They will have no compassion on little ones; they will not look with pity on children. (19) And Babylon, the jewel of the kingdoms, the glory of the pride of the Chaldeans, will be like Sodom and Gomorrah when God overthrew them. Figurative or Literal? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 8134 Registered: 12-2003  |
Both Matthew and Revelation have cosmic signs as occurring right before the end of time, right near the end of the tribulation. The sun being darkened is one of the last plagues in Revelation, and it comes near the end of the trib. One of the things that amazes and befuddles me is to remember how I fogged out over the obvious discrepancies with Scripture in Adventism. I could read (figuratively), "White is white" in the Bible, and I would believe it said, "Black is white". Colleen | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 794 Registered: 5-2007 |
END TIME ADVENTIST EVENTS Back in the days (over fifty years ago) when I was going to SDA schools, there were all sorts of "fulfilled" end time events that I call; "The Stars Are Falling" syndrome. For the most part, I can find none of these examples in their current literature. They keep changing their support for their doctrines but never abandon the doctrines themselves. For instance, in school, I was told that the Hebrew word for 'Scapegoat' was 'a curse'. Now they don't say that because most theologians now agree that it simply means; 'goat of departure', or something similar. However, they still teach heresy, that our Scapegoat is Satan. They keep changing what they say in support of the teachings of Ellen, but they never abandon her false doctrines. Phil | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1513 Registered: 10-2002  |
That would've been good if the Hebrew word meant "a curse" in view of Galatians 3:13. In all honesty, though, I opened this thread because I thought it said, "The Dork Day of 1780"! LOL | ||
| Lucias Registered user Username: Lucias Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2002 |
Phil you said "They keep changing their support for their doctrines but never abandon the doctrines themselves" And that sure does sum it up. Ever since the flip to trinitarianism by Ellen there hasn't been a doctrinal shift but there sure have been changes in what they use to support it. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 796 Registered: 5-2007 |
Yes Ramone, It was a curse for Jesus to hang from a tree: Deut. 21:23: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance. Heb. 12:2: Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. However, when we search scripture to get a full picture of our Scapegoat, we find that it is Jesus who suffered the curse. P.S. When I pointed this out to Kevin Morgan on CARM, he simply could not see what I was saying. Phil | ||
| Tkmommy Registered user Username: Tkmommy Post Number: 57 Registered: 1-2007 |
I would love it if some or one of you can give me a Scapegoat for Dummies version of this. I had this conversation with my husband, who fully believes the scapegoat to be Satan...he says Satan has no *redemptive* power for our sin but believes it to follow the old testament ritual of the two...one slain (christ) and one let go into the wilderness (satan). What he says makes sense to me in a way but I don't trust sda doctrine....what I've read on this forum about this issue has made sense but I would be appreciative if someone could give me a refresher or point me to another thread that covered it. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 1443 Registered: 8-2004  |
Are Satan and Jesus equal? If they are not equal, how could they be represented by two equivalent beasts? | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 799 Registered: 5-2007 |
1. Both goats were one sacrifice and both were spotless which represented sinlessness. The role of each goat was picked by lot, meaning God chose which role was intended for each goat. 2. The argument that both couldn’t represent Christ is without substance. The High Priest also represented Christ. 3. Originally, Adventist doctrine argues that the Scapegoat was a curse. Very well, Jesus hung on the cross and that was the curse. 4. The claim that our sins polluted the holy of holies and that is why they needed to cast our sins on the Scapegoat is silly. The blood of the first goat represented the blood of Christ and he has no sin. The Holy of Holies is not polluted and never was. Phil | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 8146 Registered: 12-2003 |
AMEN, Phil!! You have just touched on something I'm beginning to think most Adventists and perhaps former Adventists as well think: the sins polluted the Most Holy place by being transferred in there in the blood of the atonement sacrifice. Wrong. The blood ALWAYS cleansed. And Heaven has NEVER been polluted by our sins through Jesus' blood, as the IJ says. There are no sins in heaven waiting to be cast out on the head of satan. Jesus cancelled them all at the cross. Colleen | ||
| Tkmommy Registered user Username: Tkmommy Post Number: 60 Registered: 1-2007 |
*sigh* I'm still confused! can you give me some specific bible passages to read regarding the Most Holy Place/sacrifices/scapegoat? Thanks. | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 166 Registered: 2-2008 |
Hi TKmommy, This is the verse that convinced me... it is very clear as to what the shadow the scapegoat was:
How could the scapegoat represent Satan and be used for "making atonement"? I don't know how they twist this verse to insert Satan into there... but SDA's give Satan way too much credit. To me, that scapegoat represents Christ and the fact that He took away our sins into the desert never to be seen again... as far as the east and the west! Love that... ~vivian | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1515 Registered: 10-2002 |
Tkmommy, I encourage you to ask the Lord to take you through Leviticus and have a look at the sacrifices (maybe reading Hebrews at the same time). As you go, consider this question: Did any God-commanded sacrifice in the Old Testament ever represented anything but the perfect sacrifice of His Son, Jesus? | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 1516 Registered: 10-2002 |
P.S. Also, if you look at the meaning of the word "scapegoat", the connotation is of someone who is innocent but is unjustly given the blame others deserved. Both goats in the Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement) were sacrifices. A sacrifice is by nature innocent. If we say that the scapegoat represents Satan, then we end up unwittingly declaring that Satan is 1) innocent, 2) unjustly blamed, 3) a sacrifice. All of these, of course, are false. Finally, Christian history has consistently seen the scapegoat as a type of Christ, not a type of Satan. A wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoat |
