| Author | Message | ||
| Patallen Registered user Username: Patallen Post Number: 57 Registered: 7-2010  |
A man dies and goes to heaven, and St. Peter decides to show him around. "Here are the Methodists," St. Peter says. "Over there are the Episcopalians. Over there are the Unitarians and down yonder are the Baptists." As they strolled along, they came to a tall brick wall and heard people shouting and thanking God that they had made it in. He turned to St. Peter and asked, "Who are the people behind this wall making all that noise?" St. Peter smiles. "Oh, never mind them. Those are the Adventists. They think they're the only ones here!" | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 424 Registered: 4-2007 |
I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry | ||
| Julieb Registered user Username: Julieb Post Number: 27 Registered: 1-2010 |
Here's another one: As the people line up behind the gates of heaven to receive their crowns glittering with gold and gems, St. Peter asks what denomination each one is from. When the Adventists come, he calls to Gabriel, "Gabriel, get the crowns with the clocks on them." | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1339 Registered: 7-2007 |
The trouble is, the only way to Heaven is through the blood of Jesus and not through works or partly works. All the cults add works, so seriously they won't be there. It's heartbreaking how none of the cults accept the "free gift." (Such as Universalists, Roman Catholics, Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, etc. I tried to when I was an Adventist, but I couldn't quite accept Jesus' free gift because of what Ellen White wrote.) | ||
| Angelcat Registered user Username: Angelcat Post Number: 185 Registered: 11-2008 |
Asurprise...do you mean you beleive there will be NO Adventists in Heaven? Just wondering. I was saved while I was an Adventist. In my teens, I attended a non-denominatioonl youth group. I did't consider myself a Christian because I wasn't good enough, and because I had issues with the idea of God as my Father, given what my dad was like. Anyhow, one evening after the meeting, God was speaking ot me-don't remember what started it exactly. i told the leader I might want to try this God thing. well, she told me NOT to wait, that God was speaking to my heart, and i had better listen. We went straight to a member's home, and I prayed and gave my heart to God in front of a bunch of kids from the group. There was lots of praising God, tears, and hugs. then we had pizza. At that moment, nothing in my past mattered,I wasn't committing to be good...it was all Jesus. Of course within days, the guilt and trying to be good was back-I made another attmept, in the SDA church, to follow God, (I didn't belive i was saved) and was baptized. people were so happy that i was joining the church..of course, within a few years, I gave up again, and had a VERY wild few years, which I am lucky to have survived. So yeah, I think i was saved as an Adventist, but I couldn't let myself totally beleive it. however, in my darkest hours, i KNEW God was still with me. So, I think there will be Adventists in Heaven. In general,though, I can't imagine being saved in an Adventist church. there is also an SDA miister I knew for mot of my life who I beleive s in Heaven. He did say he was saved. He could tell you the date and time. I don't think he was an Adventist at the time. I think God did use him in the SDA church. I was thinking out my brother a few weeks ago, and wondering why went hte direction of acting good in frot of our parents, while behind their backs he did whatever he wanted, and I kept trying ot be good, wanting to please God, but not knowing how. And i remmbered hearing htis misisters sermons about jesus...how he loved us enough to die ofr us, and that all we had to do was accept his gift. I couldn't beleive that, because it wasn't what i was learning at home, but he presented a God I could love, and wanted to believe in. It gave me the desire to please God, not to escape punishment, but out of love. And for that, i am thankful. But,i don't think you could REALLY follow Adventism from cradle to grave, and be in Heaven. Now if you mean that Adventism isn't truly Christian, no argument there. I was in Adventism for over 30 years, and I can only name one pastor who I believe was saved...hardly a ringing endorsement. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1340 Registered: 7-2007 |
Angelcat; you mentioned an SDA minister who believed he was saved. You said you don't think he was an Adventist at the time. You're right. He went to the Adventist church but he was saved. He wasn't an Adventist, because he didn't believe the way Adventism teaches. If a person believes that way, they cannot be saved because they have a "different gospel" and a "different Jesus." Dale Ratzlaff was saved while he was an SDA pastor. Then later he was kicked out. That started when he told his congregation that Ellen White's writings weren't all correct - that there was error in her writings. A conference official stood up at the close of his sermon and challenged him then and there to show where Ellen White was wrong. Dale did. He was kicked out because he couldn't in conscience teach the investigative judgment. (That's in his book "Truth Led Me Out.") But yes, I do believe that often a person "gets" the real gospel and is saved while they're still attending the Adventist or Roman Catholic, etc. churches. (At that time though, they become Christian and no longer are SDA or RCC, etc.) I'm just saying that there will be no Adventists who believe the Adventist way, in Heaven; because they don't believe that Jesus did it all. They believe that their salvation is partly up to them, so they cannot accept Jesus' finished atonement. (It's all where a person puts their faith - in the real Jesus of the Bible, or a Jesus of a cult.) | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 282 Registered: 6-2008 |
While I could not remotely feel qualified to make a list that designates "All of these will be lost," or "All of those will unquestionably be saved," I can venture an answer to the question--with an explanation. I think that most SDAs are taught that salvation is about what they do, and not about who Jesus is and what He did and does. And I think it's fair to say that some of the leaders know this and choose to protect their jobs rather than tell the truth and lose their pensions--that is choosing Satan's fate! But there are many SDA people who have never known the truth, and have had to live up to whatever light they had, even if it wasn't the "truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." Many people who sincerely love God, who give God the credit for saving them from their previous lives of rebellious and horrible corruption, still think the 10 Commandments are in effect. Will a merciful and loving God tell all of them, "Sorry, guys! You're going to hell!" Somehow, I doubt it. Just as I don't think everyone who rejects SDA doctrines will be saved! Ultimately, I think we may all have some surprises when we see who's there and who's not! I'm glad I'm not the judge! | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1341 Registered: 7-2007 |
Basically it's whether a person accepts Jesus' finished work or whether a person is working for their own salvation - no matter what church they belong to. That's what determines whether a person is saved or lost. | ||
| Sunnimoreno Registered user Username: Sunnimoreno Post Number: 125 Registered: 10-2008 |
adventists who do not believe in the adventist doctrines are hypocrites. do you think they would be given the crown with clocks? lol | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6519 Registered: 9-2006  |
Yen, I guess if its sincerity that counts, then Gods word is pretty much in vain then isn't it? Yeah, I will be awfully surprised if God doesn't stick by his word, and just goes by a persons raisein' We,ll all be singing the the old Merle Haggard song, "The roots of our Raisin' run deep" Instead of hymns of praise for his truth. Oh well, these arguments for sincerity are good entertainment. The bad thing is, my blood pressure goes up.  | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 758 Registered: 10-2006 |
I heard all those same arguments from the moment I stepped in the door of the SDA church; All I had to do was live up to the light I had and Jesus would make up the difference. The problem is though that it wasn't enough for Paul or the Pharisees or Cornelius or Phillip or the relatively faithful Jews or anyone else in the Bible. The Bible says we must place our trust in Jesus alone. Most Adventists have not done that. They are relying on their character perfection which I was taught was the only thing I could take to heaven with me. The problem is that their version of character perfection isn't going to help one tiny bit. I don't know one that's even close. I don't know anyone anywhere thats close. Hopefully we are all growing and living for Jesus more every day, but what we can accomplish on earth just isn't good enough. We needed Jesus. That's why God came in the flesh and endured all He did. We can not contribute to our salvation. It is a gift. We live our saved lives in gratitude to God. My motivation for loving people around me is not salvation, I'm loving the people God loves as (a very small, but important part of)his earthly hands and feet. I don't read my Bible out of obligation or to win brownie points with God. I read it to understand His ways, to see how He worked in the past and to learn about life as God wants it for me. The guilt is GONE! The fear is GONE! The obligation is GONE! I am FREE! (Not perfect, but growing, saved and free!) I am NOT working on my salvation. It was accomplished a long time ago. I am a saint who is growing, but still living imperfectly for Jesus. I'm writing this because it scares me that people are experiencing a false sense of security because of the "sincerity" doctrine. How could a loving God possibly send someone to hell. The Bible says the Gospel must be preached to all the world to every race and nation before the end can come. Why? Most people are pretty sincere about what they believe. Most believe in some kind of god. The problem is that most of those gods are false gods. Only Jesus saves. This ministry is important. If we could choose the Jesus we wanted to believe in according to whatever - most Adventists would be saved. There is a true gospel and a false gospel. They don't mix. Paul wrote a pretty important letter to the Galatians. If this hadn't been an issue there would have been no need. | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 304 Registered: 6-2008 |
Just to clarify this: There's no difference in the end between (1) the ones who have known the truth of Jesus' sacrifice and atonement, EGW's lies, the difference between law-keeping and grace, etc, but have ignored these and refused to tell the truth, and (2) those who never heard, never had the advantages we have, never guessed that they had been deceived? All of these will fry forever as equally evil? Is that what you are saying? | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2495 Registered: 8-2004  |
If I knowingly and intentionally head to Nashville even though I've been sent to Chicago, I will end up in Nashville. If I think I'm heading to Chicago, but take the road to Nashville, I'm still going to end up in Nashville. The line between those who are saved and are lost is clear - those who have the Son have life, those who don't don't. "He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." 1 John 5:12, Acts 4:12 | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6521 Registered: 9-2006 |
What are you doing in Nashville Mary? I thought you were in Kentucky! Yen, its not a matter of equal evil, its a matter of the provisions God has made for every man and woman on this earth. Through whatever circumstances his provision is not accepted, the provision he has made by the blood of his own son is to be taken, or left. When he said, "This is my beloved Son, hear him, he meant it I'm sure. Was God serious? More serious than a tooth ache. The sincerity clause don't work, so weep and mourn before the alter for them today, because when the final bell tolls, he will judge all. I really hate saying words such as this, and if anyone can show me in the bible where I am wrong, I would appreciate it. It makes me sad for the souls who have been led astray by the heresy of Adventism. I just ain't going to talk about it any more right now. River | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3324 Registered: 10-2004  |
Yen, There are different degrees of punishment in hell. But being deceived cannot make a lost person saved/born again. It just makes them deceived. It sounds like you don't believe in original sin. Don't you believe that a person is born lost and condemned to hell? Jeremy | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2496 Registered: 8-2004 |
Jeremy, thanks for stating the core of the issue: "Being deceived cannot make a lost person saved/born again. It just makes them deceived." Well said! This does not in any way mean I'm not sympathetic or tenderhearted towards the lost. It just means that I recognize that we ARE lost unless/until we are saved by Jesus Christ. God has provided the Way, the Truth, and the Life. There is no other. (Message edited by helovesme2 on August 12, 2010) | ||
| Yenc Registered user Username: Yenc Post Number: 306 Registered: 6-2008 |
Yes, but if your map was supplied by a devious person who knew it was wrong, he would be at fault, not you! And when you found out that you were headed the wrong way, it would have become your responsibility to change course. But if you had no way of knowing, how could you be punished? I knew a man once who was directed to the wrong plane at the airport. None of the airport personnel noticed the discrepancy between his ticket and the plane's destination. (He was also very hard of hearing, so he didn't hear the announcements.) It was only when he landed in the wrong city that he discovered the mistake. The airline was totally apologetic and they didn't make him pay for another ticket to get him to where he intended to go. They even put him up for the night because the proper plane was to fly the following morning. No one penalized him for the mistake. God knows the intents of our hearts. What is the point of His knowing the intent if those without intent to sin are punished the same as those who knew and wilfully continued in rebellion? We all commit offenses to God, many without even knowing it. When we learn that what we did (or believed) was wrong, we are expected to repent and confess, and forgiveness is freely given. When sin is wilful and knowing, the situation is different: when we defend our sin and continue in rebellion, we cannot be forgiven. The concordance lists hundreds and hundreds of texts referring to God's mercy. Where there is no offense, no sin, there is no need for mercy! Some die loving and trusting God but never having known the whole truth. Can they be held accountable for what they never knew? Where is the justice, much less the mercy, in this? | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3325 Registered: 10-2004 |
Helovesme2 wrote:
Exactly. In fact, this reality should cause us to care more about these people and want/pray for them to see the Truth, knowing they are lost without it. And, of course, that is what Christian evangelism is all about--sharing the Good News (Gospel) with those who are lost without it. Jeremy | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3326 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yen, You wrote:
And how is that going to help anyone on the day of judgment? The Bible says: "The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?" (Jeremiah 17:9 NLT.)
There is no such person! Have you never read Romans 3??
We all commit "willful sin"! And as I mentioned earlier, we are all born lost and condemned to hell. Yen, you are still under the hold of Adventism's false gospel. What you are teaching is salvation by works and you need to repent and believe the only true Gospel which saves--salvation by grace alone through faith alone in the blood of Jesus Christ alone. Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on August 12, 2010) | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2497 Registered: 8-2004 |
Yenc, that man was not penalized for his mistake, but he did end up in the wrong city. The amazing and wonderful thing was that the airport people helped him get back to where he needed to be. God does this for us. He has made a way for us to come back. He takes us from the "wrong city" and brings us to Himself. The only sin I know of that will ultimately lose us is the refusal to take God at His word and trust Him for our salvation "nothing in my hands I bring, simply to His cross I cling". As JRT wrote in this old thread, salvation is through faith/belief in Jesus PERIOD. |
