Post Number: 4176
|Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 8:03 am: || |
In the electronics field it is at times necessary to replace a transistor or other discreet components with a good one.
Now the problem is that when you go to find a replacement that particular manufacturer may not even be in existence.
We have in the trade what we call a transistor cross reference which we use to find a part number so we can obtain the correct part.
This reference not only references transistors but other discreet solid state components.
We go to the cross reference and then we look at the technical sheet to see if in fact that component is a ‘fit’ for our use.
The Bible is much the same way, we know we have a text, but we must find the proper ‘fit’ for that text, so then we must look at the tec sheet (context) and see if in fact we have a ‘fit’.
Adventist go through the bible and look at similarities and then take a similarity and try to force it to work. What anyone does with this method is to come up with an amateurish contraption that has no chance to work.
If I went to the parts counter and said ‘I need a transistor.’ And the counter man said what transistor? And I said “Oh, something that looks like this part just as long as it is similar to it.’
Well….how good a chance would I have if I stuck it in my 1700.00 radio, it may even cause other components to blow. I demand that anything that goes into that radio is an exact ‘fit’ and come up high standards, no use ruining a good unit with a 2.00 transistor.
To use a text simply because it holds a similarity to another one does not make good sense, either in the scientific world of logic nor in the bible world of logic.
Yet I see Adventist do this time and time again and it is illogical spock!
Post Number: 647
|Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 10:38 am: || |
When I was an Adventist, I knew the Bible was correct. I also "knew" that Ellen White was a true prophet of God for these last days and that she "explained" things for us, including the Bible.
Whenever I didn't understand something in the Bible, I "knew" that Ellen White had an explanation. Some of the verses seemed to so clearly contradict Ellen White though, but I was still so sure of Ellen White, that I just ignored the verses, figuring that I simply didn't understand them.
The SDA pastor would give a sermon and jump all over the Bible, picking out a text here and a text there to prove his point, and I would think "wow what a good sermon!" The only trouble was, he would also quote Ellen White and I would be anxious that a visitor might hear and be "turned off" that we had a prophet; not that I disagreed with her in any way. No, I was convinced that she was a true prophet!
I don't exactly know WHY I was convinced that she was a true prophet. Perhaps it was because my parents believed in her and because she had "signs or miracles" along with her "visions." (Revelation 16:14 talks about demons performing "signs or miracles," too.)
So I went on "happy as could be" and as lost as I could be, thinking I was in the "One True Church." I had no assurance of salvation but I still thought I was in the "One True Church," thinking that I would be all right in the end, provided, of course that I had opportunity to repent of the latest sins accumulated before I died or "probation closed." (I had no idea that when someone accepts Christ alone as their salvation, without Ellen White, their sins; past, present and future, are forgiven on the spot!)
I shudder as I realize how very LOST I was! I had no idea that when a person is saved, it's a one time thing. They have to put ALL their weight down on Jesus' finished work though; NOT think, "oh, if I make sure I confess this sin and that sin, and keep the Sabbath, then perhaps I WILL be saved." It's so simple, but Ellen White makes it so heartbreakingly hard.
For my part, I would try to get an "assurance" of salvation by reading Ephesians 2:8,9 where it says the believer HAS BEEN saved. I would also have to take Ellen White too, where she says that NO ONE should say or feel they are saved. I would take a position in the middle somewhere and trick myself into thinking that I had salvation. That would only work for a short while though, because I couldn't put my complete weight down on what Jesus did for me at the cross.
(I hope I didn't take your thread off track, River. If so, I didn't mean to.)
Post Number: 4179
|Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 1:27 pm: || |
There was no track to get off Of deary so you just go right ahead and talk about whatever you so desire.
I was just venting, I probably get more frustrated than you do.
I just praise God every day for you, you have something special which is new eyes to see with. Just don't get so socked into some denomination or theology that you squander what God has given you and I will be so thankful.
Post Number: 784
|Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 11:09 am: || |
I have always been frustrated with Adventists, because they can look right at a scripture and tell you it means the opposite of what it says.
Well, it turns out Presbyterians do the same thing.
In my Sunday School class we were studying Jesus' parable of the sower and the seeds falling on different types of ground. We discussed how the soil represented the hearts of people who hear the gospel, some of whom are ready to accept it (fertile soil) and some of whom are not (rocky soil).
It dawned on me as we studied, that Jesus was teaching about presedtination here.
Now wait a minute! Hear me out. I know we don't like that topic.
Anyway, I asked the class, "Can the soil do anything to prepare itself for the seed?"
Someone said, "Whoa! Good question!"
Someone else said, "Now you're getting into predestination!"
The teacher quickly changed the subject, to avoid having to deal with it. And in summarizing her lesson, she challenged the class to go out and cultivate their hearts (soil) to be a welcome place for God to work. I just shook my head and felt like I was back in Adventism for a brief moment.
However, I do need to paint a fair picture here. Others in my Presbyterian church have a very good grasp of presedtination, election, and the sovereignty of God. In fact, one of my church friends loaned me her CD set of R. C. Sproul teaching on this very thing. It was very, very good and I highly recommend it to anyone who struggles with this doctrine.
I beileve we all (SDA or otherwise) face the continual temptation to make scripture say what we want it to say. I pray the Lord will enable us to rightly divide the word of truth.
Post Number: 406
|Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 8:26 am: || |
My 2 cents worth....
Why read the Bible if ya wont accept it for what it says.
No need to "re-interpret" it.
Just live the word and allow God to bless you !!!
...Animal...keep it simple
Post Number: 653
|Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 6:35 pm: || |
Concerning predestination, I tend to agree with Colleen on another thread where she said BOTH positions are correct. (Isn't that right, Colleen?) By both, I mean like the place in Romans 9:15-23 where Paul says that God "has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills, He hardens." And then second, where it says in places like John 3:16 "...that whoever believes in Him should not perish..." and Revelation 22:17 where it says, "...Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely."
We are so small compared to God Who is infinitely greater than us. This may be something we will never fully understand, but we can certainly trust God's heart and His infinite wisdom.
Post Number: 787
|Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 7:22 pm: || |
Asurprise, the way Sproul explains it removes any conflict between the verses you quote above, in my opinion.
Until God has mercy on a person, he or she is unable to believe or to choose God. Until we're given the gift of spiritual birth, our spirits are so dead they can't choose anything but evil.
All of us deserve eternal punishment and God, being sovereign, has every right to choose on whom He will have mercy. But until He shows mercy on the one He has chosen, that one is just as dead in sins as the rest of the human race.
It's a miracle when anyone chooses God, and God had to first have mercy on that person, in order for him to be able to choose God. First, God enables; then we choose. God gets all the glory.
It is God which worketh in you, both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
I can no more create myself than I can have faith to believe. God creates and God gives faith. It's all about God. Of mine own self I can do nothing, not even believe.
The first birth is done by God. The second birth is also done by God. Until I'm born the first time, I can't breathe. Until I'm born the second time, I can't believe.
It's all about God.
Post Number: 4208
|Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 8:25 pm: || |
yall make it sound so complicated.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Now wasn't that easy?
Post Number: 4209
|Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 8:44 pm: || |
Accept I think Calvinist believe that only certain persons are drawn as God Chooses simply because he is sovereign.
But wait there be more.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Since it is obvious Jesus was lifted up from the earth to the cross and he says ALL men.
Now, this is pretty evident that not all people are saved sooooooo....responsibility.. Walla! and Blah de blah and so forth and so on.
We may not be able to grasp it, but both are definitely and definably and ABSOLUTELY true.
Its kinda like a Ginsu knife, ya buy one but get two.
Don'tcha just love thee-ologyee?
Smile now, your on candid forum.
Post Number: 4210
|Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 8:47 pm: || |
Bravo Colleen you were right again (clap clap) now if you would just move to Battle Ground and teach...