| Author | Message | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1651 Registered: 4-2000  |
Once again it's nearing graduation time! The following list, from 11 Seventh-day Adventist universities and colleges in the North American Division, comprises the number of SDA undergraduate, theology students who are scheduled to graduate within this calendar year. While most these undergraduate degrees in theology will be given this Spring, some will be given later this year. Loma Linda University is not included in this list because they offer only graduate degrees in religion. Readers of this forum are invited to comment on this statistical data. There are many interesting factors (i.e., ethnic, regional, economic, positions available, GC hiring freeze, accession and apostasy rates, etc.). Andrews University: 22 Atlantic Union College: 15 Canadian Adventist University College: 4 Columbia Union College: 2 LaSierra University: 5 Pacific Union College: 10 Southern Adventist University: 34 Southwestern Adventist University: 7 Oakwood University: 30 Union College: 6 Walla Walla University: 9 Grand Total: 144 NOTE: Not all of these statistics were verified by the various Academic Records Departments. However, they are as accurate as their Religion Departments project them to be. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9687 Registered: 12-2003  |
Dennis, this is really interesting! The highest number of theology grads is from Southern--not really surprising. It has the reputation of being the "true blue" Adventist university... Also interesting that the next highest number of Oakwood. The regional conferences continue to be really distinct from the "regular" conferences, and the "flavor" of worship in African-American churches is different. And Andrews--well, the interesting thing there is that there aren't more. Wow--the "new crop" of Adventist pastors will certainly have a certain "flavor", won't they? (Not to mention that there just aren't very many...) (Message edited by Colleentinker on April 15, 2009) | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 839 Registered: 11-2007  |
This would explain why my neighbor wants to move back to Southern to finish his instead of doing it here at Southwestern. Kinda lonely place for a theology major here it looks like! Sondra | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1652 Registered: 4-2000 |
Considering the density of SDA populations, it appears that the West Coast is not doing well in theology graduates (i.e., southern California having only five ministerial graduates at LaSierra). Atlantic Union College, like Oakwood University, has a large African-American student population. By the way, I personally contacted these institutions by phone for this information. It was a very interesting experience to do the survey itself. With some educational centers, I had to follow up with additional phone calls to get the right people. I felt that emails could be easily ignored. One person said, "I can't imagine why anyone would want this information." Another asked, "You represent an organization?" All in all, it was sort of like ingathering or canvassing (answering objections and/or avoiding them). Dennis Fischer | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 83 Registered: 3-2009 |
I spoke the other day with a professor who teaches at the SDA institution where I'm now working. He's in theology/religion, and he says the SDA church is in a big crisis b/c the young people don't understand the SDA historical roots--and most could care less (my paraphrase there). They don't feel connected to the church and its unique message at all. Now, to be fair, Christianity as a whole is also facing a crisis (dropping membership) in industrialized nations, but I think it's still doing better than the SDA church is. Anyway, I thought it was interesting that he was so honest. He was telling me that the church has to change strategies fast, & if not, he hinted that it faces extinction. Even when I was a loyal SDA, I knew this, too. Unless something drastic happens, I just don't see it surviving. I could be wrong--I've been mistaken b4.. When I was a loyal SDA, I had all these idealistic dreams about how I could help reform it/turn it around, etc. I was so angry at the nasty culture, but I still assumed the teachings to be "right". All it needed were some changes and a bit of cleaning up here & there. Wow, I'm ever so relieved I was wrong on that! Thank you, Jesus, for taking that burden from me. | ||
| Jdpascal Registered user Username: Jdpascal Post Number: 165 Registered: 10-2003 |
There are also previous grads out there that aren't hired for churches as well. One of my friends was pastoring after waiting 2 years for a call. They had to leave that province for personal reasons and their home province has no (need) for their services. mmmmmmmm....... 144 = 1 in a thousand........... Must be a sign.............mmmmmmmmm  | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 531 Registered: 11-2005 |
Dennis, your comment about it being like your old ingathering/canvassing days made me smile. For a summer while I was in Academy, I sold EGW books to help pay for my tuition. I can actually still remember my spiel. Unlike most normal teenagers my age, I was very enthusiastic about my job. I felt like I was employed by "God" (sort of a disturbing thought now that I think about what that means in light of selling EGW books...). Anyhow, prior to Easter, our church gave us a challenge to distribute 5 New Testaments to our neighbors with an invitation for them to come to church on Easter Sunday. As I knocked on each door, and waited for them to answer, I was completely struck by how oddly familiar yet "different" it was from my past experience canvassing. Since I was just passing out Bibles, I had nothing to hide! I didn't have to worry about dodging questions about my denomination, or my beliefs or anything. It was an extremely interesting experience for me! So I can completely relate to your canvassing "memories"! Grace | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4572 Registered: 9-2006  |
Grace, the person you are now, I have a hard time picturing you as ever selling EGA books. River | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 269 Registered: 8-2008 |
I'm 28, and FWIW, this is my experience as well. SDA-ism tried to ingratiate itself to evangelicals, thinking they could then get evangelicals to start believing their message. They never expected it to go in the opposite direction, and now a lot of young SDAs prefer reading C.S. Lewis to EGW. My wife graduated from Southern. The little secret that goes around amongst the student body is that if you aren't smart enough for a real degree, you just major in religion. The religion majors are considered the dumb students. (Message edited by bskillet on April 15, 2009) (Message edited by bskillet on April 15, 2009) | ||
| Martin Registered user Username: Martin Post Number: 54 Registered: 11-2008 |
Well, I can not really comment much since I'm outside the US and I don't know very much how's the situation in SDA schools in Europe, generally. But certainly they don't look like many to cover the whole country and other areas. I will just say that, lately, I have been thinking about some sort of division I'm seeing in the SDA church. From the top (GC) it gives an apparent image of unity, at least around the central pillars of its doctrines, but I'm getting the feeling that there's a slowly growing gap between those who want to keep it as much "traditional" as possible and those who want to move it towards something more evangelical, whether it is for sincere or not so sincere reasons. Maybe I'm seeing all this because, now, my point of view is a bit from outside the system. There's some perspective to realize how things work and what's going on. And reading about all the history of the SDA church with an open mind also helps a lot. And about what Colleen commented about the "worship flavour" of African-American churches... Well, don't know either about it, but here in the UK most SDA people I've known are from the West Indies or from Africa, so it's a predominantly black church from my experience. In any case, if you compare between both groups depending of their origins... The people from Jamaica and other caribbean countries tend to have a much "livelier" worship style. People from Africa tend to be more conservative, in many aspects. Bskillet... You're 28? I didn't imagine that Well, good to know there are people around my age here. (Message edited by martin on April 16, 2009) | ||
| Surfy Registered user Username: Surfy Post Number: 514 Registered: 11-2007 |
I was a religion major my first year at Andrews. I guess that would make me one of the dumb ones. I had my sights set on the seminary also. I was smart enough to realize that I wanted to learn the Bible and not EGW so half way thru the first year I switched majors. That was in 1976. Surfy | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 270 Registered: 8-2008 |
Oops. I didn't mean to insult anyone here who was a religion major! My comment was specifically limited to Southern. I read Jerry Gladson's autobiography about the religion department there. The powers that be decided to turn Southern into the Mecca of historical Adventism. What he says is that, rather than dealing with their theological issues by listening to theologians, the SDA power-brokers decided to sweep everything under the rug by expelling theologians who wouldn't fall perfectly in line with historical Adventism. Southern was the place this plan was to be enacted. At the time that Southern was being built up, Jack Blanco was one of the prime movers in their religion department's attempt to wallpaper over the holes in SDA theology. The theologians knew they could not prove Adventist distinctives, especially the IJ, from the Bible. That's why Blanco had to publish The Clear Word. Southern's religion department adopted the JW strategy: If you can't get the Bible to agree with your theology, just re-write the Bible. The leaders/dictators in the SDA church are probably quite happy that most of their pastors are coming out of Southern, because its religion department is intentionally designed to be an indoctrination camp, not a school. | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 61 Registered: 3-2009 |
Funny! I have a friend/ex-student who went to Southern to study for the ministry. He did get his Theology degree, plus enough information to put two and two together and realize that SDA was not what it was painted to be. He got his degree at SAU and left the SDA church and went to work for and evangelical church where he is as happy as a lark. Hec | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1653 Registered: 4-2000 |
Grace, Thank you for your comments. To be fair, door-to-door canvassing/ingathering develops strong interpersonal skills. It used to be a requirement for all SDA ministerial students to experience at least one summer in literature evangelism. As a publishing leader, I used to recruit (on campus) students at Southern Adventist University. Oh yes, I used to date my sweetheart at SMC--she has now been my wife for more than forty years. I used to tell the theology majors, "If you can't even sell an Adventist book, then how can you effectively convince someone to step into the baptistry?" One year I was given the opportunity to address all the theology majors separately from the other students. Of course, many became student colporteurs who did not major in religion or theology as well. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 532 Registered: 11-2005 |
Dennis, I do have to admit that my summer colporteuring was one of my favorite and most memorable summers. Being an extrovert, I really got into the door to door thing. I met a lot of interesting people that summer! There were also some pretty scary experiences that summer. Looking back on it, it wasn't the "safest" job. We went up to the doors individually, covering blocks at a time without any supervision. Many times, we would end up inside the homes, by ourselves, for long periods of time. River, not only did I sell EGW books, but I was one of the top sellers that summer. It is hard to picture, huh? I occasionally think about all those books that are floating around out there that I sold and just cringe. I often pray for those homes I went to that summer. I just have to trust that God redeems everything and brings it all to His glory. Sigh. Grace | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1654 Registered: 4-2000 |
Grace, As you would probably expect, I had bushels of experiences while canvassing in many different States. Also, I was a contributing author to a sales guide for literature evangelists (i.e., sales tactics, answering objections, etc.). While canvassing one afternoon in Jamestown, North Dakota, the man of the house told his wife (in German) to throw the SDA book at me. He was quite sure that a young 20-year-old would not be fluent in the German language. However, I speak German quite well. So, I was ready to play catch while simultaneously surprising them with my German skills (smile). Fortunately, the lady did not obey her husband's command, and I left without any physical harm. On another occasion, in a remote "holler" in Tennessee, a lady slowly opened the door with a gun pointed directly at me. These colporteur experiences toughened my skin among other things, and they come in handy with my online chaplaincy to Adventists today. Truly, our great and sovereign God prepares his servants in most unique ways. Consequently, I know more about Adventism today than when I was still a devout member. After all, I minister to Seventh-day Adventists on a daily basis. Remember the old colporteur story of how someone missed the last house on the block and the unvisited person committed suicide moments later? This awful guilt trip was totally unbiblical. Salvation is from the Lord alone. God never goes on a rescue mission that fails. I wholeheartedly agree that we need to pray for those who bought Adventist literature from us. God redeems our past for his glory. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 275 Registered: 8-2008 |
Praise God! | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1655 Registered: 4-2000 |
NEWSFLASH! After scheduling her baptism at the Kenyatta Sports Ground, Seventh-day Adventists failed to baptize President Obama's grandmother in Kenya, Africa. http://www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/561598/-/u4abqd/-/ Dennis Fischer | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1656 Registered: 4-2000 |
Here is another news report about the failed baptism: http://www.politicalarticles.net/blog/ . Sounds like the visiting SDA evangelist is very persistent. Already, the local village SDA church has been named the Obama Seventh-day Adventist Church. Dennis Fischer Jonah 2:9 (Message edited by Dennis on April 20, 2009) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2708 Registered: 10-2004  |
These are incredible articles, Dennis! Jeremy |
