| Author | Message | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 952 Registered: 11-2007  |
This is one of the best teachings I've heard on this - it's a full sermon - but so worth the time to listen. Many deep truths in this message. Zac Poonen from India http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AufSkXabUjw | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4927 Registered: 9-2006  |
Sondra, I got to watch part of the film this morning, he said one thing that bothered me considerably. He said that we might lose our salvation and not even know it. He has a good message and there are many truths to the message, we do need to rest in Jesus. I want to ask the people a question, seems to me if we can lose our salvation, and not only that, but not know it, to what extent of un-rest must we have before our salvation is gone? If we can lose it, we must have gained it on our own seems to me like. I have all kind of problems with this. I know I ain't by myself, to make salvation such an iffy thing is not the way I understand my Bible. His word says he gave me his Spirit as an earnest, if he takes it away, then it was never an earnest the way I understand earnest to mean. Another thing is that the Lord can never say that he never knew me, since he has been in my 'house'. If he said that it would be a lie. I just don't get this losing your salvation and gaining it and losing it and gaining it. If I can lose my salvation without even knowing it then Jesus is not my hope and my faith is misplaced, plus the Adventist would be right about the investigative judgment. River | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 195 Registered: 3-2009 |
That's a good question, River. Is it possible to lose our salvation and not know it? That is a scary thought to me. The story that Jesus told in Matthew about the people who did works in His name--seems to indicate they thought they were saved, yet they were not. Not sure if this is the context that the pastor was speaking of in this clip though. | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 954 Registered: 11-2007 |
I didn't agree with that point either (about being able to lose your salvation)- but I can spit out the parts I don't agree with. I rarely ever hear a message I don't have some point of difference with. =) Sorry - should have warned about that bit! I just really appreciated so much of what he said. | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 955 Registered: 11-2007 |
To me, the reality of what some Christians interpret as "losing" their salvation is the sad case of someone who is confident in their salvation, on false premises. That's the real truth of what we see happening when people really crash and burn. But their religiosity can be so convincing everyone thought it was real, even them. But it doesn't hold up when the storms come. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4931 Registered: 9-2006 |
Well, sure Sondra, if we fail to listen to everything a man says simply because we don't agree with one point, then we surly will fail to learn. I intend to listen to the rest of his sermon because I believe God is speaking to hearts through this man. I am not ready to persecute the whole of Armeniah just yet.  However when a man makes a statement such as this I think we ought to look at it closely, don't you? River P.S. I ain't quite ready to persecute you for posting the link either, but I have to wonder about you Texicans. You spend entirely too much time getting your brains jiggled around by riding bull's. Are you a bull rider Sondra? | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 959 Registered: 11-2007 |
Aren't you Pentecostals known for gettin saved every week?? lol. (just pickin back) My husband grew up around that - it was about the same as growing up SDA as far as his assurance of salvation was concerned. I don't ride bulls, but growing up Adventist has a very similar affect on the brain. =) | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 232 Registered: 3-2009 |
I have been thinking about this. As a matter of fact I was planning to ask a question here. So I guess this is a good time to post the question/explanation(?) of what I'm understanding. When we talk about losing our salvation, it immediately comes to mind
This is one of the SDA preferred text to prove that one can lose one's salvation even if one is "a Christian." My take on it is that these "Christians" were using the "works" to gain their salvation.
So it's not that they did not know that they were saved, it's that they were depending, trusting on their own works instead of Jesus. That's why Jesus says that he does not know them. They were never His because they always trusted their works for their salvation. On the other hand
The saved did not even realize that they were doing "works". They had to ask, "when did we do that?" They were focused, trusting, depending on Jesus and the "works" came automatically without they even noticing them. Of course, the unbelievers did not notice that they were not doing the "works" either, because these were different type of works. They were doing "religious works" to gain their salvation (prophesying, casting out demons, doing miracles). The saints were not doing religious works but "social" works(?) Taking care of Jesus sheep. And when they did that, Jesus counted it as if it had been done to Him. These are the works that Paul says we were created so we walk in them (Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.) So I think that using that text to prove that we can lose our salvation is wrong. These are not the words of a theologian. Just those of a seeker. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Hec | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4933 Registered: 9-2006 |
I think all that might be right Hec. Sondra, Pentecostal get save three time a day and twice on Sunday. A day without the sinners prayer is like a day without sunshine. River | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 578 Registered: 10-2008 |
Hec, Hec, your out of the crib. Great post! I really loved your well- thought out reasoning. Makes sense to me. Thanks for the insights! Keri | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 960 Registered: 11-2007 |
I really agree with your take on that Hec - It's what has been hammering on me for the last several weeks - religiosity vs. compassion and how the church (overall) focuses on one and Jesus commanded the other. Thanks for the way you put that, because it really reinforces how my focus has been changing. Have you said yer prayer today yet River?? =) | ||
| Sparrow Registered user Username: Sparrow Post Number: 55 Registered: 10-2008  |
Your post is well said, Hec. Thanks. Those who practice lawlessness (perhaps alongside their "good deeds") don't honestly trust the truth and take pleasure in unrighteousness. Also see 2 Thessalonians 2. These people do not lose salvation; they never had it to begin with. | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 489 Registered: 7-2008  |
If a person could lose their salvation...what would that say about God and His promise that no one can take His sheep out of His hand? Adventists still dont comprehend the supreme soverignty of God, do they? ...Animal | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 4937 Registered: 9-2006 |
No Sondra, I'm a Bapticostal, we don't go for that stuff and we don't go with the girls that do. I believe in dunkin'em, but not flunkin'em. (: > Pentecostals dunk'em and then flunk'em. River |
