| Author | Message | ||
| Jdpascal Registered user Username: Jdpascal Post Number: 181 Registered: 10-2003 |
In a recent post about the Tour of Encouragement, Handmaiden made this statement:
Could some one please supply some more background to the circumstances behind this sad situation? | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1667 Registered: 5-2007  |
Since, according to SDA theology, a human is nothing more than a physical body plus "breath" and since an unborn child has not breathed yet, they duck the issue by not believing it is a human being until born. In a round about way, this is a consiquence of their doctrine of "soul sleep". Fearless Phil | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10002 Registered: 12-2003  |
I believe that what triggered this statement is the fact that Bud Feldkamp, the father of the two daughters who, with their husbands and kids, were killed in a plane crash in March, is an Adventist and the owner of Family Planning Associates. FPA does more abortions in the state of California than Planned Parenthood, the nation's largest abortion clinic chain. A news story about the plane crash and Feldkamp's connection with abortions is here: http://www.lifenews.com/state3989.html Colleen | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 234 Registered: 3-2009 |
IMO and from my experience, SDAs are typically pro-choice b/c they are scared to death of the government taking over citizens' rights regarding moral issues. This is b/c they know that the "Sunday Law" is coming. I've heard from several sources *please don't quote me* that SDA hospitals perform abortions, and this saddens me greatly. Even if they do not want a law passed prohibiting it (for whatever reason), the least they could do is stop performing the procedure. Also, they could do all they can to preserve life by supporting women with unplanned pregnancies, promoting adoption of unwanted babies, etc. There is so much that can be done! I read a very good article in a previous issue of Proclamation (2006 or 2007) that addressed this matter. The article surmised that, because of the SDA's harsh culture, many young SDA women resort to abortions so as to not bring shame and economic hardship on the family. This is probably not solely an SDA phenomenon but also a fundamentalist Christian one. Except in the SDA case, they are outwardly more favorable to abortion. I can recall my mom saying repeatedly as I was growing up that women who become pregnant out of wedlock should not receive a baby shower b/c it'd be "celebrating sin". When women come from that kind of background (and with the high rates sexual molestation and incest in the SDA church), abortion seems to remain on the table as an option--tragically  This is a really sensitive topic. Any other thoughts? (Message edited by seekinglight on June 16, 2009) | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 850 Registered: 7-2007 |
I looked in the internet for the SDA policy. I think I found it. I put it on another thread but I'll put it down here: http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/guidelines/main_guide1.html | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 303 Registered: 3-2009 |
After talking out of both sides of their mouth, according to the guidelines it comes to this:
Hec | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2009 |
This information about Bud Feldkamp gave me the shivers! Thanks for letting us know. | ||
| Martin Registered user Username: Martin Post Number: 67 Registered: 11-2008 |
This is just curiosity and quite off-topic... Is it really that high? I've heard some stuff, of course... I think probably everybody heard something, especially at the time when there were those problems with the Catholic priests... But I do not know if there is a higher incidence, let's say, than in other christian churches. Oh, well, don't pay me any attention if you think it has nothing to do with the topic. | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 237 Registered: 3-2009 |
Well, Martin, I don't have any empirical data on this, but I had a friend that worked at the GC and saw the many, many allegations of this behavior in the SDA system. And many incidences don't get reported b/c the perpetrator is in a high position of authority. Any fundamentalist, legalistic system that has a lot of secrecy/shame tends to have more of these kinds of sins going on. Carol Cannon wrote a book about all of this called "Never Good Enough" where she addresses the toxic, addiction-prone culture of Adventism. | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 988 Registered: 11-2007  |
I think it's an environment that would foster it, for sure, but I think it's a common problem across the board - from the many people I personally know who have been abused. It's unbelievable really. An sda relative of mine informed me that Feldkamp was no longer a church goer but had let money take over his life.. therefore in their minds distancing him from the organization itself. I would be interested to know more of the connections that the denomination has to abortion activities. Does anyone know if his name is still on the church books somewhere? My relative got her information from a common acquaintance with the family. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1673 Registered: 5-2007 |
Sondra, The Feldkamp's are cousins (by marriage) of mine. From what I know of them, well, your thinking is on target. Fearless Phil | ||
| Jdpascal Registered user Username: Jdpascal Post Number: 183 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thankyou all for your responses. I was aware of what the SDA abortion guide line says and I have heard the sad "celebrating sin" comments before. I thought there might have been a more definitive statement about the where and when of the SDA *health care system* abortion numbers. The SDA member in the pew tends to dismiss the actions of another member like Bud Feldcamp as an individual choice and having nothing to do with the church. How would the member in the pew view a guide line on the 4th commandment written in the same vein as this one on the 6th? I saw an adaptation of the abortion guideline like this some where (maybe here but maybe on carm) but can’t find it to give proper credit for the idea. From my recollection, the gist of it was …….. 2) The choice of one’s personal day of worship is one of the tragic dilemmas of human fallenness. The Church should offer gracious support to those who personally face the decision concerning such a quandary. Attitudes of condemnation are inappropriate in those who have accepted the gospel. Christians are commissioned to become a loving, caring community of faith that assists those in crisis as alternatives are considered. It is sad - no, it is a tragedy - that SDA's place such stigma on ceremony and ignore the rights of the helpless. No wonder God told Israel 'I hate your sacrifices' | ||
| Jdpascal Registered user Username: Jdpascal Post Number: 184 Registered: 10-2003 |
Has anyone documented information as to SDA institutional participation in abortion activities? | ||
| Joyfulheart Registered user Username: Joyfulheart Post Number: 621 Registered: 10-2006 |
Arthur and Tessa Beam would be great resources on Seventh-day Adventism and the abortion issue. Tessa's story (and testimony) is pretty powerful. She left the SDA church at least initially because of the church's stance on abortion. She was involved in the right to life organization in the church and discovered stuff that horrified her. She said abortions were being performed willy-nilly at SDA hospitals for any reason. I can't find her stuff right now. Maybe someone else knows where it is. I think I remember reading that someone on the forum knows them personally - anyone remember who? | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 628 Registered: 6-2005  |
Tthe Beam's are on facebook, I'll leave them a message. I was an RA both in Academy and College. As a result I learned of such "issues" as unplanned pregancies, which were not uncommon. Abortion was presented as an option to "keep things quiet, and save "reputations"". I cannot recall a single instance where there were efforts to talk girls out of having an abortion,or even to contact the parents. | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 478 Registered: 1-2007 |
Javagirl, It sounds like the sda is holding hands with planned parenthood by their actions of talking or scaring these young girls into having an abortion. The bible tells us that God knows us before we were born so wouldn't that also apply to all the unborn children and what right do we have to take away from God what He has given? These people just plain make me sick. Gail | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10011 Registered: 12-2003 |
I don't know for sure, but I think the Feldkamps are on the books at the LLU Church. The Sabbath after the crash, the University Church pastor did not preach the next sermon in his then-current series but preached a service to comfort the mourners and to memorialize those who died. Tesa and Arthur Beem's open letter explaining their departure from Adventism is here: http://www.formeradventist.com/stories/teresaarthurbeem.html Their #1 reason is the abortion issue. Colleen | ||
| Javagirl Registered user Username: Javagirl Post Number: 629 Registered: 6-2005 |
Gail, To be fair, I know of adventist's who are against abortion, but few speak up. I did not become convicted of the fact that abortion is murder of a child until I was processing out of the adventist church. As Phil stated before: "Since, according to SDA theology, a human is nothing more than a physical body plus "breath" and since an unborn child has not breathed yet, they duck the issue by not believing it is a human being until born. In a round about way, this is a consiquence of their doctrine of "soul sleep"." Another dilemma indeed. And a common rationalization for murduring the unborn from within SDA circles. They say body+breath=living soul. So an unborn child is not a living soul till they breathe on their own. This, of course, is not biblical by any stretch. God says he formed us in our mother's womb, among other things. Notwithstanding any rationalization on their part, I cannot understand how the Adventist church as an institution has not taken a stand against abortion. It is unexcusable. Im not aware of any other Christian church that does not take a stand against abortion. I would be curious to know if there are any others. Lori | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1702 Registered: 4-2000  |
Lori, Sadly, in their attempt to be more inclusive, the Lutheran Church (ELCA), United Methodist Church, Episcopalian Church, United Church of Christ, Presbyterian Church (USA), and many others are all pro-abortion. Still others, like the American Baptists and Unitarians, leave this decision exclusively with the mother. Thus, Seventh-day Adventists have lots of supporters on the abortion issue. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 520 Registered: 7-2005 |
Dennis, These churches are the liberal churches of United States. If I remember correctly, Episcopalian Church has ordained homosexuals in high places of the church leadership. Mark Driscoll said he loves John Piper but not in an episcopalian sort of way. I don't think that you should be quite concerned about them, because these churches are shaped by the american culture that surrounds them to such a degree that I find hard to speak of them as true churches. Gabriel | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1704 Registered: 4-2000 |
Gabriel, Recently, I became more appreciative of the outstanding ministry of Mark Driscoll in the Seattle area. A non-Adventist, unmarried couple (living together & having one child) lived in the Seattle area for a few months. While in Seattle, one of their employers suggested they should attend Mars Hill Church (six locations in the greater Seattle area). They became regular attenders. When they moved back to Lincoln, I asked them about Mars Hill. They told me they greatly miss Mars Hill Church. They are now planning to get married and straighten out their lives. They even visited my church recently. I realize that Mars Hill Church may not be in the comfort zone of everyone, but the critics of Mark Driscoll are not reaching these unchurched young people. Many people have seriously messed up lives that need straight talk. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 521 Registered: 7-2005 |
I only quote a joke of Mark Driscoll, I'm not trying to convey anything bad about him. Just to counterbalance the news of a truly sad situation with some funny stuff. Gabriel |
