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Jim02
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Post Number: 834
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Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Enoch,
I wonder how CD's would do in a parked hot car? I suppose I could take them inside work.
I can check out the web to see how much they cost.
Seems reasonable that hearing would add extra depth to The Word.

Gail,
Thank You for understanding.

I tend to not use the cult word, it is stigmatizing and I think does more harm than good when it comes to communicating viewpoints and edifaction between pending formers and formers. IMO. :-)

There are comforts of familiarity that I miss in the SDA years, but there are things I do not miss as well.

As for certain issues, it is a progressive learning curve I expect.
The hardest part is not repeating the same ground because of so many tangents. I think I have a resolution or answer about a topic , only to latter pick it back up again with new doubts or questions. Then you have to review and it is surprising how many things have to be refreshed to hold onto a new understanding.

Jim
Pegg
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Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh don't worry, Jim!
I leave mine in the car all summer in VA and I haven't had one ruined yet.

BTW Jim, I don't use the cult-word much either (for the same reason), although I've noticed that after 4 years my understanding of SDA is getting closer to that definition.

Pegg:-):-)
Grace_alone
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Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jim, please check out the end of this thread ~

http://www.formeradventist.com/discus/messages/11/8847.html?1244848039

It's an excerpt from a book Seekinglight posted and I believe it fits your recurring situation...

:-) Leigh Anne
Jim02
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Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Leigh Anne,

(from the string)
"If you pick and choose what you want to believe and reject the rest, how will you ever have a God who can contradict you? You won't! You'll have a Stepford God."

This is a good point and I agree.
Although, considering the relationship itself;
is it right that the creature may also question the creator?

Rhetorically Speaking:

What if the creature in attempting to understand the Persona of God becomes confused?

God reveals to us His attributes, however, there are passages, events and circumstances that seem to contradict the attributes of God.
I emphasize "seem".
Or an instruction that appears to reveal an entirely different God. A strange command or act.
(That has often been the effect comparing the Old Covenant system and the New.)
God's dealing in Noah's time.
Compared with, healings and mercy in Christs time. "Father , forgive them , they know not what they do"

What if the creature feels rejected or abandoned, what if the creature is wounded or dysfunctional. May the creature ask questions?

And what if the creature, a child of God, is floundering, may He safely approach or does he join the ranks of those who are without hope?

To my understanding, the Realtionship we seek with Christ is possible only when we have access to knowing Him. That we understand, we may boldy (yet humbly)approach because of our inability to save ourselves. We cannot even begin to grow without His help.

Now where I am in this phase of change is that certain areas of my understanding of God is being challenged by the considerations of doctrines that appear to contradict God as I understood Him to be.

I intuitively relate to God as I absorb scripture and study. Perhaps this is The Holy Spirit. Do I claim to have a different truth?
No, that is not my intent. I merely state that I am conflicted and that creates confusion.

I mentioned this in another string sometime ago.
For someone to claim they have the revealed understanding from God by way of The Holy Spirit by necessity cannot be accepted at face value no matter how adamant or sincere. It has to be tested.

It is these tests that I am trying to develop. Discernment that has safety interlocks.
Again, consider, I would not even be in this predicament if truth and doctrine were simple to know. You have a world full of PHD's theologians and Religons. They cannot be all correct.

A priori, even that is a leap of faith.

1. from a general law to a particular instance; valid independently of observation.
2. existing in the mind prior to and independent of experience, as a faculty or character trait. Compare a posteriori .
3. not based on prior study or examination; nonanalytic: an a priori judgment.

J:
Consider in the ancient days. They did not have scriptures , and through the ages , it developed and was recorded. What was their A priori ?

I have moved forward with the belief in Christ as revealed in scripture. Though there are times still when the insanity of this world can cause doubts regarding scripture itself.

Logically then, Scripture must be able to contradict the world, the sinner and myself.
If it is real. It will point out error, it will define truth. Thus the relationship with God becomes possible.

Jim

(Message edited by jim02 on June 13, 2009)
Grace_alone
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Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jim,

I wasn't really looking for you to analyze that excerpt, I was just hoping it would help. Let me be honest with you though (like there was any doubt that I wouldn't be?)...

Of course you can question God all you want. That's how you learn. Does he owe you anything though? No he does not. He simply loves you and wants your heart. How will you find any of this out though? Read your Bible, Jim.

I've noticed that every few months you post pretty much the same thread about how you don't understand what God wants for you, or what doctrine is all about. We all sympathize with you and try to help, but we come back with the same answer every time. Read your Bible Jim.

You don't trust yourself. You don't trust anyone else. You don't trust God right now. You doubt Scripture because of the world's insanity. Everything has to be "logical" but nothing makes sense. Again, our answer is the same, "Read your Bible, Jim".

Even Enoch suggests a Bible on CD in your car and the first thing you write is "how would CD's do in a hot car?" Really? Do you realize how many hot cars there are out there with CD's in them? Even in the 117 degree desert, CD's will STILL play. Even Bible CD's.

Jim, you keep making the same complaints, and we keep offering the same answer. However, because of all the excuses and rhetorical questions, you're giving me the impression that it's that not an acceptable answer to you. Are you waiting for a more suitable answer?

Please read your Bible Jim. You know that there are so many people here who can (and are very willing to) answer your questions about Scripture verses. We all love you and want to help you with that.

:-) Leigh Anne
Jackob
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Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jim

Things are not as complicated as they may seem in how we come to understand . Usually what on the surface may appear as many different interpretations of the Bible can be traced to effectively two roots, two distinctive and opposite affirmations that can't be both true: one of them is true and the other is false. And when you see both of them clearly and understand what lies at the basis of their claims, it becomes evident what is the true and what is the false claim.

I'll use an example related to the problem of subjective interpretations of the Bible that seem to contradict each other making it apparent that there is no way to arrive at objective truth. One says something about God, and sustains it with texts from the Bible, another says the opposite and he can appeal to some other texts from the Bible. Obviously both cannot be right.

The Catholic church claims that the protestant reformation was a failure because of differences of opinion between different churches. The Roman church claims that this is due to the fact that the Bible is not clear enough to produce a uniform interpretation of it's message and consequently, people can't understand it without a single central authorized interpreting body, it's magisterium with the Pope as the visible head. The locus of authority in interpretation of the Bible resided in the small group of people who were at the top of the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic church.

In opposition to this claim about the Bible, the reformers affirmed that the Bible is clear enough in its message in order that even somebody who's not trained in theology may understand it rightly. They denied that the Bible is obscure, and affirmed its perspicuity, or, it's clarity.

Who's right, according to the Bible? Does Bible points clearly who's right and who's mistaken? Yes.

And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 2 Peter 3:15,16

Notice that Peter, speaking about apostle Paul's writings says that in his writings are "somethings ...hard to understand." Now if there are "some" things hard to understand, it obviously are "some" things that are not hard to understand! If parts of his letters are hard to understand, obviously the rest of them are clear enough for our understanding.

Consequently, the reformers had not denied that the Bible contains obscure parts, some parts unclear. But they rejected the Roman Catholic church's claim that the entire Bible, not only "some parts" of it is obscure. They affirmed that the Bible, when it comes to essential things it's not hard to understand. When it speaks about God, man, sin, salvation, the Bible is clear enough for us that, when we are confronted with different interpretation, we may detect, using our minds under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, what interpretation is right and what interpretation is wrong.

To be sure, the reformers had not advocated the idea that reading the Bible alone, in seclusion, apart from the body of believers is the path to finding objective truth. Luther said that if each individual interprets the Bible for himself, this would mean that "each man would go to hell in his own way". He rather advocated reading the Bible in connection with other believers, not only with those who are alive, but with those who are dead, in connection with their writings. God blessed the church with leaders who were able expositors of the truth, and He had not left on our shoulders the task of reinventing the wheel. What the church taught for centuries, things embodied in the creeds and confessions are valuable tools that are helpful in understanding the truth of the Bible.

Not that the creeds are an extension of the Bible. The creeds are expressions of what the church, as a body, confessed about what Christianity is. Neglect the Athanasian creed and you may fall into the trap of Arianism or some other heresy. In the Roman Catholic church, the locus of authority in interpreting the Bible resided in a small group at the top, in the protestant church, the entire body of believers confessed together what is truth.

Now things may get tricky: do not the confessions of the protestant churches differ? Is not Rome right after all that the Bible is unreliable as a clear guide and it needs to be augmented by tradition and magisterium? Yes, the protestant confessions differ, the Lutheran confession differs from those of reformed origins, but interesting is that, in spite of disagreements, there were enough agreements between them in order to present a united front in opposition to the gospel of the Roman church. Man's fallen state and his total lack of ability to save himself, the absolute necessity of God's grace in bringing dead sinners to spiritual life and faith, faith as the alone instrument by which Jesus' benefits obtained on the cross for us are appropriated, all these stand in stark contrast with the Roman Catholic church. Either God saves people from start to finish, completely, or man saves himself, with God's help. Man is either able to do what pleases God (Roman Catholic), or is not able, and Christ's sacrifice and His life of obedience is counted to him. The solution for his problem, standing as a sinner before a holy God is either an internal solution (sanctify yourself), or an external solution (look to Christ's work on your behalf, with looking = faith).

And as in the case of the question "Is the Bible completely obscure, as Roman Catholics claim, or is it clear enough to be understood even by uneducated?", the Bible is clear on the essential subject of the man's fallen state and the way of salvation.

Now it may be objected that the epistle of James contradicts the idea that we are saved by faith alone, justified by faith alone. Roman Catholics appeal to James often. Apparently both points of view, protestant and catholic seems valid. Still, when the catholic position is compared with the context, it becomes readily apparent that they are misinterpreting James since the context does not support their interpretation.

There is enough clarity in the Bible about the central subjects, God, man, sin, salvation in order that, when conflicting interpretations appear, as in the case about the perspicuity of the Bible, the Bible points clearly in one direction. The apparent contradictions are resolved when the context is taken into account.

Hope it helps
Christo
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Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jim,

A relationship with God is possible through Christ Jesus. He is the way, is the truth, is the life, no one comes to the Father except through him. ANY OTHER WAY IS ONLY GOING TO IMMERSE ANYONE IN CONTRADICTIONS. You are no different than anyone else born into sin. To wiggle your way out of that by the mind, associations, ordinances, practices, mental ascent, or any other way will do nothing accept cause missery. I have caused much missery in myself in the past, and even now, when I don't remind myself of Christ crucified, and Christ ressurected in me. It is through Him who is able to keep you from falling, and present you as acceptable to God, that has the desired effect. CHRIST JESUS!!!!!!

You know how your ex wife re-presented you as something inadequate to be her husband, when you had in all likely hood most if not all the requirements that God found acceptable to join you two together.

WELL..... Christ Jesus re-presents YOU,ME, US, WHO BELIEVE IN CHRIST CRUCIFIED AS GODS PLAN OF SALVATION, AND ATONEMENT. WE ACCEPT HIS LOVE, HIS SACRIFICE, HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS. He re-presents us as acceptable in his sight even though we hold none, not one, acceptable requirement to have eternal life with God.

Remind yourself over, and over of this simple truth, and the complications of living the imperfect life we all lead, and have led, won't have so much sting.

The Bible is one big long reminder, of what God has done for us. Not a reminder of the ups and downs, of people, or a group of people, but these stories are an example to us how from our common fallen state we can have redemption, through Christ Jesus. Our longing for walking with God is just as hereditary, as our desire to sin. That is why we all feel empty sometimes, because we have all at times not surrendered to the perfection of God, and try to do it on our own, and make sense of it all. Nothing makes any sense except Jesus, so we are all really hard on ourselves, when we forget to remind ourselves of His righteousness and his righteousness only. You know when we look for his righteousness in the sea of humanity, we are not looking at him, we are looking at humanity.

Adventism, and other religeous bodies have mixed so many subtle, and major false doctrines of men into the human experience, that tabernacling with God can be compromised. You have seen the systems at work, but stop letting them work on you, by believing the promise of God that he has addopted you.

I think if we truely forgive Adam, and Eve, we can stop feeling like we have to forgive God.

I forgive you Adam, and Eve, In Jesus name,,

Chris
Colleentinker
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Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And one more thing, Jim--knowing Jesus as He is and knowing His truth for your life requires surrender. It requires surrendering your right to have logical answers, your dreams, your human "rights".

Like Job, you have to surrender to God your right to understand why things happen and trust Him. Job never knew why all those dreadful things happened. The outcome of Job was that he repented of his arrogance, his certainty that He know how God worked. "Where were you when I...?" God asked him.

Never receiving the logical answers he thought God would give and which he believed were there, Job repented in sackcloth and ashes and put his hand over his mouth, silenced. He had to trust God and endure the loss of his children and wealth and health and even the support of his wife. The point was that God brought Job to a place of losing everything and then realizing that God WAS, and God was faithful, and he could trust Him even without answers. God Himself was enough.

When Job reached the place of releasing his right to understand but surrendering himself to the God who was There, trust Him in the unspeakable losses—only then did God restore Job.

We have to give up to God our rights to everything we have and everything we are—even our rights to our logic, our understanding, and our cognitive demands. We have to trust God in the pain, knowing that the pain comes to us through His loving permission, and lean on Him. We only begin to have "answers" when we give up the demands and the striving and rest in Him.

In that trust we begin to "know". And the "knowing" God gives looks very different from the answers our natural minds demand.

Colleen
Seekinglight
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Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 6:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jim, I think I understand where you're coming from. Are you possibly afraid of opening the Bible b/c it's confusing, contradictory, and scary? Are you possibly afraid of what you might find in there?

I definitely feel all these things. The only thing that has helped me is to tackle it anyway. Start in the Gospel of John and be comforted by Jesus's words. If you come to confusing parts, just post them on here, and folks here are happy to help.

If you haven't been there already, peruse Ramone's art gallery (he's a member on this forum):

http://art-for-jesus.blogspot.com/2005/04/tatami-gallery-main.html

Sometimes I go there & just allow Jesus to soak me in His love.

Sending up a prayer for you now...
Jim02
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Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Leigh Anne,
I shall consider myself admonished.

I have read studies in the Bible.
I have read the New Testament so many times I do not know how many times.
I have read the Bible in several versions.
I have two Bibles so heavily marked it looks like a rainbow on every page practicaly.

With all of that. Mistakes still happen and I am not taking anything for granted.
It is not so much I do not trust, it is the fact that I fail to find reliable means to verify conclusions especially when the best minds out there do not agree.

I have to make my own conclusions and let go of trying to reconcile with groupthink.


Jackob,
You get it. You pointed out the dilema.

In any event,
I can see I need to keep it specific.

Jim
Jrt
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Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jim,
You just ignored a very important post by Colleen, above. Giving up all rights to Him.

I am going to ask you two pointed questions. Please do not be offended. It is out of care and concern for you that I ask it ... Sometimes we assume too much - in this case I don't want to assume something about you that may not be the case, because it could prove disastrous.

Two Pointed Questions with short answers (yes, no, or I don't know):
1.) If you died tonight, would you have eternal life?

2.) Have you submitted your entire life to Jesus Christ, asking Him to take full control of everything you hold dear, and placed the full weight of your faith/trust on Him?

Jim, I'm asking you not to pontificate about these questions ... either yes, no, or I don't know is sufficient.

Thanks, continuing to pray for you.

Keri
Jim02
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Posted on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 7:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keri,

1) Yes , I believe so.
2) Yes, in prayer, though evidently not 100% in practice.

I have not ignored Colleen's advice.
I agree with her on that point.

The battle is accepting my reality.

Jim
Jrt
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Posted on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jim,
Thanks for answering ... and in regards to submitting our entire life ... I'm not sure if anyone has it down 100% in practice. I certainly don't.

But I did at one point turn all that I knew all over to Him and repented of my arrogance and sin. It was then that I was reborn.

I think the Holy Spirit reveals to us different things at different times that we need to submit or give over to God. If we saw our complete sinfulness all at once - it would be too devastating. Such a gracious God we have.

Accepting reality is hard. But sometimes reality is better than we imagine. I find there is always something I can praise God for. When I set my mind on praise - my heart begins to turn. Also, when I focus on Him - life is more satisfying.

I'm continuing to pray for you.

I gather from your answer to question 1 that you would say definitely you would be saved? Or is your "I believe so" a question mark in your mind? Just probing. It is very important to get that question down solid.

Praying,
Keri
Insearchof
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Posted on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jim,

I know from my time here that you have been struggling quite a while with things since leaving Adventism.

Since my wife and I left the SDA church just over 3 years ago now (Wow. Seems longer to me somehow), we have struggled with some of the same questions and issues - who is right about this, that or some other thing, how much should we be in agreement before we join another church, what if we are mislead, all that type of stuff.

I think that part of the reason that people struggle when they leave Adventism is this: when we were Adventists we knew it all. We had a prophet, we understood the future, we had insight that no other denomination had.

For me, that has been the hardest thing: realizing that I don't know everything - I can't answer every question I have since leaving the SDA church. What I have learned (and am still learning) is that there can be differing views about certain things between believers and that is OK (drinking wine is neither right nor wrong - my wife now chooses to, I do not; infant baptism is acceptable as is believer's baptism; eating pork is not an issue and neither is vegetarianism).

I am learning that there is a pretty broad range of beliefs out there because we are free in the Gospel. But, having said that, I find also that among true believers there are certain things that are absolute - Gabriel brought some of them out above "Man's fallen state and his total lack of ability to save himself, the absolute necessity of God's grace in bringing dead sinners to spiritual life and faith, faith as the alone instrument by which Jesus' benefits obtained on the cross for us are appropriated".

I can only tell you what has worked for us thus far. We spent two years with a local church that was studying books of the Bible. They accepted us into their fellowship and invited our questions. They showed us true Christian love even when we did not necessarily agree with their understanding of particular portions of scripture.

We have since started attending another church but still miss that first church and the fellowship we had there. We learned much about how to rightly understand Scripture and apply sound principles that we did not use when we were Adventists. God put us in that church for a time to learn that His church is bigger than we imagined and also because He knew that we needed a place where we could learn from sound teachers of the Word.

I still am uncertain about a number of things that I used to 'know' the answer to - I am still not entirely certain about whether man has a body/soul or body/soul/spirit but I do feel strongly from reading the Bible that what I used to believe about soul-sleep is not biblical. While I lean toward a New Covenant understanding I still have great respect for Covenant theology and some unanswered questions in that area as well.

I guess I have said all of that to let you know that even after 3 years out of Adventism, we still have unanswered questions and we are still trying to understand what the Bible is really saying about so many things. I know that God placed us where we needed to be when we left the SDA church and He will not fail to place us where we need to be now and next year. One of the hardest things to realize is that so much of what you 'knew to be true' was not and that rocks your world in ways you can't imagine until it happens.

God will not disappoint you. Reading and studying alone is useful but studying with group is much better, particularly if you only know Bible study the Adventist way. If you get with a sound group of beievers that don't have any agenda except to understand the Word, that would be a great start.

In Christ,

InSearchOf
Jim02
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Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jrt,

Evidently, salvation appears to be conditional , although I understand that many teach a once saved always saved doctrine and others cite that nothing can pluck us out of His saving hands.

Yet, all over he Bible OT and NT, there are modifiers and conditional statements.

So honestly, I do not think it is a unconditional salvation.

I have considered other teachings that suggest it is not a question of not being saved or not , but whether what we have produced will survive the flames, even though we ourselves would be saved.

Then there is the facet of being judge "according to our works", what is that all about?

You compare the Writings in 1st John and the Book of James with Paul's writings and you are all over the map.

1st John boils it down to brass tacks.
James is pragamatic.

While Paul says, there is therefore now no condemnation..............
Jim02
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Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Insearchof,

Its been about 4 years in actuality for me.
And dissonance back ten years.

I agree about studying with groups is a good thing. I hope to find that one day.
Jrt
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Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jim,
Thank you so much for your further dialogue. I appreciate your honesty and candidness.

You wrote two very important sentences that I'd like you to clarify a little more. "Evidently, salvation appears to be conditional, although I understand that many teach a once saved always saved doctrine and others cite that nothing can pluck us out of His saving hands." The other sentence was, "So honestly, I do not think it is a unconditional salvation."

Those two statements tell me that under the layer of saying yes, I believe if I died tonight I would be saved - you actually doubt it. Some layer underneath it all you have a mindset that something you do can lose your salvation for you. By your own admission salvation is conditional. Conditional on what? That you can lose it if you ???? Just asking more probing questions - because I care very deeply for you Jim and have been praying for you profusely.

Another wrestling I hear in you is how do I go to scripture and know truth? It seems many people go to scripture and have different interpretations?

Would you do me two favors Jim? Would you promise to do two things?

1.) Choose in your heart to renounce all things Adventist. Yes, say out loud, "God I renounce the fact that I was an Adventist and I renounce the teachings of the Adventist Church. Then ask God to inhabit the place where those teachings were in your heart."

2.) Pray for the Holy Spirit to reveal truth to you and then read the following verses: Mark 1:17, John 5:24, John 7:38, Acts 13:39, Rom. 3:22, Rom. 10:9,10, 1 John 5:1, John 3:36, John 20:31. Feel free to read around these verses, too.


Jim, I too, have read the Bible through 5 or 6 times. Marking my Bible profusely. Not until last summer did the Bible begin to make amazing sense to me. I renounced my Adventism, confessed my sins and turned over everything I knew of to God and chose to follow Him wherever He should lead me in my search for Him.

I made another choice ... I had been wrestling if you could even know truth by going to scripture since everyone seemed to interpret it differently (that is what I thought in my mind). So I decided to believe that I could know truth by reading scripture and that the Holy Spirit would honor my search by leading me to truth as I chose to let go of my preconceived ideas.

Then I began reading scripture again. Things began to look differently. Every time I tried to impose my preconceived interpretation on scripture I became confused. When I gave up my preconceived interpretation things began to make sense. I felt like I was reading scripture for the first time - even though I'd read the Bible through 5 or 6 times.

Jim, give up your arrogance of knowing scripture as an Adventist and choose to become a little child as you approach the Bible. Be willing to have been wrong. Choose to believe that God will honor a searching heart - He promises to do that.

I continue to pray for you and that God will bring you close and give you a rebirth in Him.

With Christian love,
Keri
Flyinglady
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Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When the SDA pastor challenged our SS class to read the NT in Dec 2003, I took him up on it. I asked the Holy Spirit to teach me. When I found FAF I found that veterans here, like Colleen, Richard, Thomas and others, learned the same things God had taught me. Then God told me to go the church I attend. I found that there they teach the same things those on FAF learned and what God had taught me. God is not going to teach one person one thing and something else to another person. He is completely trushworthy.
Jim, just ask God to have the Holy Spirit teach you. He will not mislead you. He is truly awesome.
Diana L
Sparrow
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Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JRT-your post #624 to Jim also spoke to me. Thank you. Now I must ponder and pray about my SDA baptism (44 years ago), which I have believed sufficient evidence of my decision to follow Jesus. If I am to renounce all things SDA, that might be included after all. Don't know yet; just thinking.
Seekinglight
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Username: Seekinglight

Post Number: 231
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 7:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jim, in case you're concerned about the sower parable as it relates to salvation assurance, here's a discussion on it:

http://www.formeradventist.com/discus/messages/8713/8077.html

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