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Honestwitness
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Username: Honestwitness

Post Number: 872
Registered: 7-2005


Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm thinking about looking for a different church. Can someone give me aa brief synopsis on Lutherans and what the various branches believe? Or is there a web site where I could find this info?
Grace_alone
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Post Number: 1481
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Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Honestwitness,

There are a few branches of the Lutheran Church. All Bible believing (Bible only). We follow the Nicene and Apostle's Creeds. We believe in the Holy Trinity. Mostly liturgical services, but some more than others. I go to an Evangelical Lutheran Church, and we have more of a contemporary service with traditional liturgy once or twice a month.

I believe Raven and her husband Ric go to a Missouri Synod. There's also Wisconsin Synod. Kind of depends on what your style and comfort level are.

I've been attending my particular congregation all my life and I love it! Our pastor's sermons are gospel driven.

Here are some links for you ~

http://www.lcms.org/

http://www.elca.org/

http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheran_Church

:-) Leigh Anne
Honestwitness
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Post Number: 873
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Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you, Grace_alone. I have a few questions. What do the various branches teach about homosexuality? For communion, do you use wine or grape juice? Do all Lutherans believe the bread and wine/grape juice are the actual body and blood of Christ, like Roman Catholics believe?
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 1482
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 10:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hopefully Raven will weigh in on this as well...

I'm not exactly sure about the homosexuality issue. I think (but again not sure) that the Evangelical church allows gays to become members (but as far as I know, not ordained ministers). My particular pastor preaches against homosexuality.

My particular church serves both wine and grape juice.

I know that some Lutherans believe that communion has the body and blood of Christ, but not to the same extent as the Catholic church.

Again, it really depends on which synod you would belong to.

:-) Leigh Anne
Raven
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Post Number: 1033
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Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 4:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The LCMS branch of Lutherans definitely see homosexuality as a sin, but I'm not sure how that translates into how it affects membership. That probably depends on how open or apparent it is. Definitely LCMS would never allow a homosexual pastor or homosexual person in a leadershp position. I have heard that some ELCA churches have allowed openly homosexual pastors to stay pastors, and that is one of the criticisms.

Our church also serves both wine and grape juice.

As far as I know, all Lutheran branches teach the "Real Presence" at Communion, which is different than Roman Catholics. The Lutheran view is that the actual body and blood of Jesus is "in, with, and under" the unchanged bread and wine. The Catholic church believes the bread and wine become changed into Jesus' actual body and blood. Lutherans say that while it is a mystery, the "Real Presence" as they call it has to be true because the Bible says "This is my Body..." However, I do know the ELCA particularly does not think a member has to agree with that understanding to participate in Communion, whereas the LCMS probably will, and the WELS definitely will.

The way I see it, whatever happens at Communion will happen regardless of what anyone understands is happening. Rick and I have told our LCMS pastor we do believe Communion is more than just symbolic (per John 6), Jesus is actually spiritually present in Communion (kind of more like a Reformed/Presbyterian understanding). But saying Scripture teaches it has to be the physical presence is going further than it actually says and we can't go there. He is fine with that.

Rick's parents are WELS, but we haven't been interested in that branch because they are exclusive enough to remind one of Adventism.

I just recently heard about a newer branch of Lutherans, LCMC (Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ) that is kind of between LCMS and ELCA. There aren't that many churches, but I was impressed with what I've read about it. I recently came across a former SDA (friend of a friend) who belongs to one of these LCMC churches in California. Here's the link for them:
http://www.lcmc.net/
Grace_alone
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Post Number: 1483
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Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 7:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There's another Lutheran church, the Association of Free Lutheran Congregations (AFLC), which is not an official branch but "acts" Lutheran for lack of a better word. My cousin is a pastor with that church. Here's the link for that. http://www.aflc.org/

Honestwitness, the order of service in Lutheran Churches are not that different from SDA services. The main difference is that some Lutheran congregations will offer more contemporary services these days. (My church for instance, has a praise band with drums and electric guitars, and allows clapping throughout the service) I'm thinking that if you did find a Lutheran church you liked you, your husband might be inclined to go with you sometime. Mine comes with me regularly now, and although it took a while, I know he's more comfortable because of the fact that the order of service is similar to the way he was raised.

I hope you find what you're looking for!

:-) Leigh Anne
Tgrtym
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Username: Tgrtym

Post Number: 33
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 8:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Grace Alone and Raven,

Thank yiou for posting about the Lutherean church. I was raised Lutheran, but when I moved I sought out somtething different - so to speak, and became Catholic. Then, I met my SDA
doctor and thru studies with him, I because SDA. Your discription and links to the Lutheran websites have touched my heart and I beliee that I will go back to the Lutheran church again. I was hesitatnt about finding another chruch or going to another churchfor that matter, but the Lutheran church was a strong psossability. Thanks for your posts!

Blessings,
Blessings,
Cyndi

Please forgive my spelling, the box to write this i n on my computer is microscopic and I can't fix it.
Tgrtym
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Post Number: 34
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Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 8:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and that you Honest witness for posting the question!!
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 1485
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 10:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your welcome Cyndi! Glad we could help.

One more thing Honestwitness, (and anyone else who is curious), you won't usually hear Luther's writings during worship. He comes up once in a blue moon, and of course on Reformation Sunday in October. However, we certainly don't believe he was a prophet.

:-) Leigh Anne
Honestwitness
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Post Number: 874
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Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I so appreciate everyone's responses. I have a huge difficulty with using wine for communion. I am hoping to find a church that's alcohol-free. in my Presby church, they serve grape juice for communion. However, last Christmas my pastor and his wife invited me and hubby to a holiday party at their home. I thought it would be a good opportunity to get hubby (a devoted SDA and former heavy drinker) involved with non-SDA Christians.

When we arrived, I was embarrassed that they were serving beer and wine to everyone. There were about 40 people there and hubby and I did enjoy the fellowship.thankfully the folks we did talk to weren't drinking. Hubby has never mentioned it to me, but I know from comments he has made about his Methodist brother's drinking pastor that he highly disapproves. This is part of my reason for looking for another church.
Pegg
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Username: Pegg

Post Number: 156
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi HW!

I visited with the Lutherans first on my Great Church-Hunting Expedition. I badly wanted to join them as I absolutely LOVE their doctrine, but the church was over 50 minutes from my home and in the end I wanted a Family of God I could become more involved with.

One thing I will say in reference to your comment above...I don't hold your husband's position regarding alcohol, but I do thoroughly understand it. One of the most distressing things I noticed about myself upon accepting all believers as God's children was that I continued to judge folks' Christian "status" in regard to smoking and alcohol. This was (and sometimes continues to be) a subconscious response for me. I've found that I have no control over myself. Only the work of the Holy Spirit is slowly eradicating it.

Regarding finding a church that does not allow for such...It's not the Lutherans (at least not the ones I'm acquainted with). I loved those people and I loved what they believe even more. I had to laugh at myself, (and maybe this was unique to the congregation), but their beer jokes just took my breath away every time they got to telling them.:-) For your consideration, I also think if you do find a teetotaling church that you would need to use extreme caution as it likely would come with other undesirable baggage of legalism. I know of a couple of Baptist churches in the area that would fit into that category.:-(

In our church we have folks who drink as well as those of us who don't. We use only grape juice for communion. (That is, our church does. The Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) is exceptionally flexible in disputable matters. Individual congregations may differ in this regard. We do come to the Lord's Table every week, however, and I have not yet run into a congregation that uses wine.)

May God Richly Bless You & Lead You To The Church Family He Has In Mind For You.

Pegg:-):-)

(Message edited by pegg on June 26, 2009)
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 1487
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have to agree with Pegg's whole post!

Pegg, I'm glad you had a good experience. One thing, most Lutherans I know have a good sense of humor about themselves. We do a lot of laughing at my church. Don't ask me why!

Honestwitness, I put a note over on CARM in the Lutheran forum to see if anyone knows if there are synods that do juice only during communion. I'll get back to you about it.

:-) Leigh Anne
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 5110
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 9:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I got a good sense of humor about Lutherans too.

But I would never have expected them to get into that hand clappin' stuff. Do you raise your hands in praise too?

You better watch it down there Leigh Anne, somebody is liable to walk in there and think your alive and just refuse to bury the whole bunch and accuse you of goin' penney-costal.

:-) River
Grace_alone
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Post Number: 1488
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Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HA! River, I was waiting for you to show up vit yer Lutran jokes! Ya, you betcha!

We do clap, either during a song, or if the special music particularly moved the congregation. As far as raising our hands in praise, not so much. There are literally 3 people who do that consistently. Being that many of us are Norwegian, that's just too brazen, haha! Our Pastor will occasionally refer to us as the "Frozen Chosen".

Honestwitness, I'm still not sure about the wine/juice issue in the Lutheran Churches. We only started offering juice in the last 20 years. My suggestion is that you call around to the Lutheran churches in your area. If not, as I recall, our Baptist friends usually only do juice. However as Pegg mentioned, they're a little more strict and tend to have a few rules.

:-) L.A.
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 7119
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Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 1:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

L.A., I like that "frozen chosen". I am sitting here smiling at that.
When I started attending my church I was surprised at the clapping and raising of hands in praise during the song. About 2 years ago, when Celebrate Recovery started at our church, I would raise my hands just a little. Now my hands go all the way up as I praise God in song. It feels so good to know I can do that.
We use grape juice at my non denominational church for communion. Communion is offered after every service in a room upstairs. I get there as often as possible.
HW, praying you find a church where your husband feels comfortable also.
My younger sister will not attend my church. She went for my baptism. She has told me the music is too much for her. It is very lively and loud. I have prayed and told God I would be glad to change churches if that is what He wants me to do so my sister will go with me.
My sister has a lovely voice and can sing any range. She is used to traditional music in church. So far God has not said, change churches. So I leave my sister to Him.
Diana L
Kathy23
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Post Number: 56
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Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am cracking up about the "Frozen Chosen". I am Lutheran and will have to mention that to some of my fellow Lutherans. We have wine at communion but always have grape juice available as well. I am in Pennsylvania Dutch country. The Pennsylvania Dutch are not know for being overly emotional in their services. We clap when a special music moves us or occasionally during a song if encouraged to do so. No raising of hands however.
River
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Username: River

Post Number: 5111
Registered: 9-2006


Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, you all better watch it down there in them prostate churches,a bunch a us penny-costals come in there and we have to hold a mirror close to your mouth, we don't see no fog, we're liable to bury you sitting up.

You can't get Leigh Anne to move much unless you say Disney Land, then she perks up.

At her church, to get her attention the preacher tosses an M&M in her mouth to wake her, then she claps for more.

Her idea of excitement is squeezing a jersey cows teat till she kicks.

We call Pennsylvania Dutch Pentecostals 'Dutch Ovens' because they are red hot.They got a clapping committee in their churches.

We went down to a Lutheran church once to kind of give support to the different churches and a couple of the women who came with us began to cry and moan and take on so, I ask her, "Whats wrong sister? Are you in the Spirit or did you get a bad phone call?" She said "Why look around you brother, can't you see they've all died? Even the children. And I had a heck of a time convincing that woman that them people was normal.

I said "Just hit that one there on the noggin with that song book your totin'." Well sir she laid that song book right square dab upside his head and the feller raises his hands to ward off more blows and that sister went to shoutin' and said she had found a Penny-coastal in a coma. She reckoned she might get writ up in the local paper fer savin' a life.

We never was invited down there no more, said they didn't need no supportin' no more and we couldn't coax them up toward our church with a plate full of chicken legs and a pot a Folgers!

:-)River
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 1491
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Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 7:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah yeah yeah, hardy har har River!!

Boy are you missing out on some good coffee.

And if you're really lucky, pot luck!

And if you're really really lucky, Lefse at Christmas!!

And if you actually join and become a card carrying member you get a copy of Luther's Catechism and a jar of Lutefisk!! That's a very special, slimy Norwegian fish, cured in lye and canned for the winter. Two words... DE-LISH!

BEAT THAT, YOU OLD TONGUE SPEAKING, CHURCH DANCING, SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT, PENNY-COSTAL RIVER BIRD!!!
River
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Post Number: 5112
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Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My Mom warned me about falling in love with a Lutheran. Now I know why! They try to lure you with rotten fish and coffee that would melt a mule shoe.

I love it when you sweet talk me Leigh Anne, I have butterfly's and I'm all quivery inside.

:-)River
Flyinglady
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Post Number: 7129
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Posted on Saturday, June 27, 2009 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

River and Leigh Anne,
You two have just given me a very good laugh. Thanks
Diana L

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