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Archive through July 17, 2009Jrt20 7-17-09  11:15 pm
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Registered user
Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 7260
Registered: 3-2004

Posted on Saturday, July 18, 2009 - 12:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a whole I believe the SDA church will not reform or repent. Individual SDAs that meet Christ will let Him in their lives and will repent and let God reform them. Look what God has done to each of us.
I would like to see this happen to the GC leaders and probably will see individuals changed by God. But the SDA church as a whole, if they do as the WWCoG, will end up confused. Each individual needs to associate themselves with a Bible believing group and not congregate together. There are to many heresies that people will carry with them.
I hope I am communicating clearly.
Diana L
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Username: Asurprise

Post Number: 910
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 18, 2009 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the Seventh-day Adventist church repented, it would have to change it's name. It would have to realize that JESUS is our Sabbath now!!!

I was talking to a fellow at work who goes to some sort of "Sabbath-keeping" fellowship. I explained to him the verses that show that Jesus brought in a whole new covenant and that the old one is obsolete. (such as Hebrews 9:15,16 & Hebrews 8:13) and also showed him the verse that shows that the Sabbath (in fact, ALL the Sabbaths) is a shadow of Christ. (Colossians 2:16,17)

I told him that keeping the Sabbath, is like Jesus standing there with His arms open to give you a hug, but instead you run up and try to hug His shadow on the ground instead. But he kept insisting that he wanted to "honor" the Lord by keeping the Sabbath. The veil was so thick that he just couldn't see that he wasn't honoring the Lord.

The apostle Paul was so concerned by the Galatians keeping all the various DAYS - weekly, monthly, yearly/seasonally; that he worried about their salvation. "You observe days and months and seasons and years. I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain." Galatians 4:10,11

I don't think that the SDA church can be reformed, because it's very existence is based on Ellen White's false gospel.
Registered user
Username: Jrt

Post Number: 690
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Saturday, July 18, 2009 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diana L.
You communicated clearly. Very clearly. Yep, I perfectly agree with you. That actually cleared it up in my mind. I believe you are right ... there are too many heresies that people could and would carry with them as they leave Adventism or if the church "institution" repented there would be an overwhelming need for "triage". I think that was what Phil was alluding to (Sorry, to talk to you in the third person.)

People who do repent and turn to Jesus need a healthy place to heal, learn, and grow.

Thanks, Diana, and all for the good and interesting dialogue.

Registered user
Username: Skeeter

Post Number: 116
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 18, 2009 - 3:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't necessarily believe that they would HAVE to give up worshiping on the Sabbath. They just could not make it a Salvation issue.
When the Bible says "You observe days and months and seasons and years...." it could mean ANY day that we make observation of the DAY as a key issue and almost worship the DAY over worship of God. There could be a danger of doing that with ANY day. (IMO)
Worship of Jesus Christ or Lord is "TODAY" and "today" can be any and every day. While it is most common to worship on Sunday and I do know the reasons given.. I think we must also to be careful while leaving the SDA church not to just substitute Sunday and do exactly the same thing. The DAY is not important. Our worship of our Savior IS important.
Registered user
Username: Gcfrankie

Post Number: 523
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 18, 2009 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Because the seventh day has such a hold on sda and the last one to let go of, I wonder how many sda's go to seventh-day baptists churches? I don't know anything about the seventh-day baptist church.
Just a thought.
Registered user
Username: Dennis

Post Number: 1730
Registered: 4-2000

Posted on Saturday, July 18, 2009 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I heartily agree that former cultists should not band together, but rather should assimulate into the larger Christian community. These people often have an insatiable interest or desire to further promote sensational, strange, and unbiblical views. They often delight in supposedly knowing things that others could only wish to know. Moreover, they often still hang unto some aberrant belief that adversely affects the natures of God, man, and salvation.

Seventh-day Adventism certainly doesn't prepare one to get the gospel right. There is alot of learning and unlearning in belief transitions. However, it is a very rewarding process to live the Spirit-led life. As someone recently mentioned to me, "How did we ever climb out of that pit?" The truth is that we really didn't, but that God in his mercy pulled us out of that pit. To God alone belongs all the glory!

Dennis Fischer
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Username: Martinc

Post Number: 96
Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 19, 2009 - 2:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right Dennis, we didn't climb out the pit. I never saw myself as dwelling in a pit, and anyway, I liked it there. As a former Adventist well acquainted with life in the pits, I need to say this often:

"Bless the LORD, O my soul,
and all that is within me,
bless his holy name!
Bless the LORD, O my soul,
and forget not all his benefits,
who forgives all your iniquity,
who heals all your diseases,
who redeems your life from the pit,
who crowns you with steadfast love and mercy,
who satisfies you with good
so that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s." Ps. 103:1-5

Forgiven, healed and healing, redeemed, crowned, loved, satisfied, and renewed. Wow, I think I can stop whining now.
Registered user
Username: Bskillet

Post Number: 450
Registered: 8-2008
Posted on Sunday, July 19, 2009 - 6:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


However, it is a very rewarding process to live the Spirit-led life.

Amen to that!
Registered user
Username: Psalm107v2

Post Number: 365
Registered: 10-2008

Posted on Sunday, July 19, 2009 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it's natural to want to try an reform the church from within but the problem is the "captain of the ship"(SDA leadership) knows the ship issinking and has big holes all through it and play the denial game.

I think many of us formers at some point wanted to reform it, but sooner or later realize it cannot be. The only one who can reform it is God and since the IJ and Sabbatarianism are implied or stated in the SDA name I wonder what it would even change it's name to.

Surfy I agree about the whole money issue. The problem is most lay-people don't know what's going on or know the gospel and the leadership does but they sure aren't saying anything.

Jeremy I did not realize that the WWCofG still held onto some heresies (wasn't Dale Ratzlaff & Hank Hanegraff working with them at one point to help them transition to the gospel?)

Yet there is hope. God wants His word to make people alive in Christ and by the SDA church's own admission 300,000 people leave each year so His word is not coming back void

Registered user
Username: Indy4now

Post Number: 666
Registered: 2-2008

Posted on Sunday, July 19, 2009 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


When we were transitioning out of SDA, I still wanted to worship on a Saturday. I did find a "7th Day Church of God". I called them to get some information about them. They are very legalistic about their Sabbath-keeping as well. At least this church was. Of course, this is when I realized that God put me right in the middle of a community that didn't have any other church meeting on a Saturday. It was only then that I realized how strong of a hold the "Sabbath" was to me. It was very scary for me to let that go. I had to drop myself in Christ's hands... God knew that's what I needed to come completely to Him. ... I praise Him everyday for that!

Registered user
Username: 8thday

Post Number: 1085
Registered: 11-2007

Posted on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 12:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vivian, we did the same thing. I chunked IJ and EGW very easily, but not the Sabbath. I even read Dale's book, back then called "Sabbath in Crisis." and didn't get it. I thought it sounded great, but wasn't too sure he didn't make up all that new covenant stuff himself because I had NEVER heard it before. I gave the book away and we still WANTED to keep the Sabbath, as well as all the other Holy Days. It took 6 years in the Messianic Movement before GOD showed us the New Covenant and allowed us to see it with our own eyes, not through the eyes of someone else. I wish we would have been teachable and just taken Dale's scholarly word for it.. but we couldn't trust anyone.

The WWCOG is a prime example of what happens when a cult tries to reform. It causes all out war. We just so happened to attend the service at my fil's congregation where the video was first played of Tkach addressing the organization about the changes that were going to take place. The leadership had repented and any pastor who did not feel similarly convicted could choose between someone else's conscience and their job. A few weeks later, we heard the farwell sermon of the local pastor as he stood firm for his convictions. It's not that he was right, but you can't dictate truth to people. God has to show them. On an organizational level, this was devastating, and on a personal level for some... they lost hope. One man in my grandmother's church committed suicide over it. Most who remained in my fil's church migrated to other churches, and now he himself attends nowhere, and fell back into a very destructive lifestyle. You cannot change a bad root. You have to plant a new tree. Some branches were saved from the fire and grafted into Christ, but the old tree is in essence, no longer alive. I think this would be so true of Adventism as well. Those that held to it would splinter off into many different groups (already there are groups that teach the organization has apostatized and they are the remnant of the remnant). Some would lose their religiosity but have no faith at all, and others would see Christ. I applaud all the great comments on this thread!
Registered user
Username: Jrt

Post Number: 694
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was unaware of the WWCOG and what you describe here in detail - though Phil had alluded to the "stories" behind the church ...

Very "real" post and I appreciate your comments ...

I did not think the SDA church could reform, but I did wonder if they could repent like the WWCOG ... my pastor had talked to me some time ago and mentioned the repentance of the WWCOG and that the only way he could accept the SDA Church is if they did what the WWCOG had done ... He only saw hope if the SDA Church repented ... now I see the "fall" out and your imagery of needing to be grafted onto Christ the root as very confirming. Thanks for the post.

I believe this is even more confirming for the importance of the Tour of Encouragement.

We need to continue to pray for the venues that have already happened ... discipleship needs to take place for both the evangelicals and the formers and questioning people who did attend.

And let us begin to pray fervently for the Huntsville venue ...

Registered user
Username: 8thday

Post Number: 1087
Registered: 11-2007

Posted on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 1:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Even though it would be incredibly painful... repentance of the SDA leadership would be a good thing to pray for. I know it would be calling in a cleansing fire, but weigh that against the continued blatant deception, when so many of the leaders really know the truth. For their own souls.. they need to repent!

True - reform/repent are different. You can try to do the first without the latter. I didn't make that distiction.

Never really thought about that either before.. till now.

Good points.

(Message edited by 8thday on July 20, 2009)

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