| Author |
Message |
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee
Post Number: 66
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 10:32 pm: |     |
I never ever fasted as an SDA--if you will give me some education about it handmaiden, I will commit to it also--do you drink juice when you fast? (Sorry to ask a stupid question, but I honestly would like some direction). No one I knew in all my years as SDA ever mentioned doing this... |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 5331
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 2:50 am: | |
NowIsee,
Fasting needs to be viewed with common sense, taking into consideration your health.
It is not so much a matter of fasting with or without juice, it is more a matter of the heart.
Fasting is done to seek God, not to try and force him to do something for you or someone else.
If your not used to fasting, juice is a good idea, and water intake is a necessary component.
Fasting is a setting of yourself aside to seek the Lord.
Three days is a long fast, at least to me, I have a very fast metabolism, my breakfast wears off by ten o'clock in the morning, by three my lunch is long gone. This just an example.
As you fast to the Lord your spirit becomes keener, more sensitive to the Holy Spirit.
I usually try to fast the meal before a church service. Try that.
Try eating a big meal before a church service and the very next one try fasting a meal before a church service and see if your not more worshipful and sensitive to the spirit of God on the fasted day.
Fasting should probably be done on a day when your not busy and have time to devote to continuous prayer and reading of scripture.
As I said, fasting is not done to force God into doing something or the other.
IMHO
Hope that helps.
Not trying to answer for Handmaiden, her ideas of fasting may be vastly different than mine.
 River |
Psalm107v2
Registered user
Username: Psalm107v2
Post Number: 384
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 4:16 am: | |
Brother I am praying for you on this one. I like the idea of an individual budget within the household budget and please allow me to explain myself.
My wife is not a Christian and it drives her crazy that I donate to LAM, my church and a few select ministries even though the amount is very modest. In our family budget we have the usual things set out but we both have our own discretionary money. My wife will purchase things that I am not agreement with (violent, Godless DVDs, smutty novels etc) & she is clear that I disagree with those purchases in disagreement not unlike her disagreement with my giving back to the Lord and His work. But in the end I think she has had a greater respect for me because I take a stand (though she will attack my faith at times, especially when I stumble and my walk is less than perfect).
She knows that I would never run down to Walmart and pick up the latest vampire movie for her though I can't stop her from doing so
The suggestion above of carving out discretionary money for each of you would at least address the money issue. Trust me when I say I know and agree with you that the spiritual battle affects many/all areas of the marriage.
Brother I could go on and on here and I don't want to take up pages and pages of web space here but if you want to talk more email me directly at enochramsay@gmail.com
I'll conclude with this, you are the priest in the home lead and serve gently and lovingly. Forgive my crude analogy but you may have to raise the flock of sheep but that does not mean you have to take one of the lambs and put it on the alter of Baal(writing the check). If she uses one of the sheep for her own use (her own discretionary money) then so be it.
I would say your gut feeling is right, don't particpate in that which goes against your conscience.
Enoch |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 5332
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 6:49 am: | |
Good words Enoch, my wife and I also have individual budgets within the house hold budget even though we are both saved, thank God.
My giving to the Lords work also comes out of my individual account. I don't even know what she gives in to. She is an individual, I didn't want to marry me in the first place.
One time I saw a skit on Seinfeld, Seinfeld meets a girl and they have all these same little habits and he thinks he will marry her. Later on in the skit he says this, "I figured out who I am in love with, I have fell in love with myself, I want to marry myself!" Haa! Lol, Lol.
If you want her to be like you, just divorce her and marry yourself!
River |
Cordurb
Registered user
Username: Cordurb
Post Number: 26
Registered: 4-2009
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 11:04 am: | |
You all have very valid points.
Handmaiden, this change came about after my wife spent 5 straight weeks with her mom. We ended up there because of a bad real estate deal that I had to work on up there. I commuted back and forth on the weekend. That time plus 100 or so Walter Vieth videos... and voila... " I am going to honor the Sabbath whether you like it or not."
As much as I don't want to compromise, I also want to let God work. I also don't want to drive her to leave because my 4 and 5 year old girls need me around more than ever.
She is a good mom, she just doesn't choose to believe the man is to be the spiritual leader of the house... Now she reads her "Steps to Christ" with her Bible every day...
Psalm, I will email you...
In the meantime, I will continue to pray.
Should I pay my wife a salary for her job as a mom, and have her use part as household expenses and the rest as she wishes?... |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 408
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 12:28 pm: | |
I have a long way to go understanding fasting!
When I was a 12/years old boy, the conference president pay a visit to my parents. Now we lived in a farm far away from any church, and a visit from the church pastor was a big thing, let alone the conference president.
He was a very devout man. He talked and prayed with us. We even, the president and I establish communication through letters. He used to fast every wednesday, and so I took up the habit. My mother was worried because at the time I was under 100 pounds. I was 117 at age 25.
Later on when I learned about Grace and the fact that my deeds good or bad have no influence on God saving me or blessing me I stopped fasting. I placed fasting in the same category as tithe, "investments funds", etc. for those who don't know about investments funds, these are oferings that SDA gives to thank (repay?) God for doing something for them. For example, if I have an orange tree that has not procuced for years, I place it in "investment funds" and tell God that I will give him 10 cents for each orange the tree produces. And guess what? The tree will produce hundres an hundreds or oranges. Yeah, right! I have to pay God for him to bless me. The more I think about it, the more I think is anti-biblical.
Any ways, that's why I am very confused about fasting. I have doubs about anything that looks like I am sacrificing to obtain God's grace.
Hec |
Cordurb
Registered user
Username: Cordurb
Post Number: 27
Registered: 4-2009
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 12:36 pm: | |
fasting is about denying the body of what it needs for a while so your focus on the Spirit of God in you. It is not about sacrificing to get something from God. It is about putting a desire for the things of God before our physical needs. Not to be confused with a magic bullet to get God to do something for you. Denying the flesh... |
Animal
Registered user
Username: Animal
Post Number: 610
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 12:40 pm: | |
Hec...
I wonder how many christians really understand what Grace really is? The concept of a free gift seems hard thing for them to grasp. Maybe it is a trust issue for them to take God at His word?
Animal |
Honestwitness
Registered user
Username: Honestwitness
Post Number: 901
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 5:53 am: | |
Cordurb, my husband is a very devout SDA. He is a wonderful man and I am still very much in love with him, after almost 20 years of marriage. For 16 of those years, I was an Adventist, albeit a "quasi" Adventist, right alongside him. I quit Adventism, almost four years ago.
During our entire marriage, we have both held full-time jobs and I have always been the one to pay the bills. I always wrote two separate checks, one for his tithe and one for my tithe. I still do this, only now I write my tithe checks to my Presbyterian church and his tithe check to his SDA church.
The one thing I now do differently is that I refuse to sign his tithe checks. I lay each one, unsigned, on his desk and he can do with it as he wishes. He always signs them himself and puts them in the offering plate, as he has always done.
I prefer to continue being the one to pay all the bills, because that is my contribution to our marriage. It is a very time-consuming task that I still do every Sunday, after I come home from church. Hubby has his own time-consuming tasks he does each week, like taking care of our vehicles and yardwork. It's a satisfactory division of labor for us.
I am fasting for my husband to come out of Adventism, but it is not a food fast. It is something entirely different from food. I am fasting from cutting my hair. I used to wear it very short, but around the same time I left Adventism, I made a commitment to let it grow as long as it takes for God to answer my prayers and deliver hubby from the darkness of faulty Adventist doctrine.
I may go to my grave with long white hair down to my ankles, but that is up to God. My husband's heart is in the Lord's hands. |
Cordurb
Registered user
Username: Cordurb
Post Number: 28
Registered: 4-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 9:10 am: | |
Honestwitness,
Thanks for your story. I wish my wife did not have the stronghold of Adventism around her, but the hardest thing is the kids. I wish I could keep them from being subject to the deception.
She does stay home with them, so each day her ties to her SDA friends and my kids ties grow stronger. I get so angry inside. I don't want to go to church with her because it just makes me angry, but I want to protect my kids.
If I "put my foot down" our marriage would be over. It is hard spot. I guess that is where true faith must show up. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 7324
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 9:54 am: | |
Continuing to pray for you and your family. Continue to read Bible stories to your children, from the Bible. Pray with the family and with your children when they go to bed. God will never leave us or forsake us. He will be with us until the end of the ages. Those are promises of our awesome God.
Diana L |
Gcfrankie
Registered user
Username: Gcfrankie
Post Number: 550
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 1:21 pm: | |
I am with Diana L. about reading bible stories from the bible to your children but along with that instill in them that no-ones writings are above the bible.
I am also praying for you and your family.
Gail |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 95
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 11:23 pm: | |
FASTING
There is no indication that the Lord is more likely to answer prayer if it is accompanied by fasting.
King David fasted for the life of his child but his child still died. 2 Samuel 12:16
Our confidence to enter boldly into the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus,
whether fasting or not fasting is one of the most wonderful privileges, each believer
has because of what Jesus accomplished on the cross in reconciling God and man.
Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.
Fasting is not a burden or a duty but rather a drawing away to enjoy a time of special communion with my Father.
Spending time in the Word while at the same time denying my flesh is more a spiritual feast.
My spirit grows stronger more sensitive to hearing the voice of God and discerning His will.
Jesus told the disciples that He had food that they did not know of...John 4:32
32 But He said to them, "I have food to eat that you do not know about."
34 Jesus said to them, "My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish His work.
Fasting weakens my body but strengthens my spirit by receiving the food that God alone can provide.
Fasting overcomes fear in my life ... the fear of death, which is the worst that man or satan can do to me.
Fasting strengthens me to do battle against the enemy of my soul and to battle for the souls of others / spiritual warfare.
He prepares a table before me in the presence of my enemies...
Fasting looses chains of injustice; it frees the oppressed and breaks the yoke of bondage
Isaiah 58:6
Is this not he kind of fasting i have chosen to loose the chains of injustice and untie the chords of the yoke.
Fasting is a time to focus on the pain and oppression of others.
16 "I brought him to Your disciples, and they could not cure him."
19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, "Why could we not drive it out?"
20 And He said to them, ......
21 this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting."
i have found it is very difficult to pray one out of the bondage of the enemy, out of a cult or drugs or ??? ... without prayer and fasting.
Fasting seems to break the hold or power of the enemy over a loved one.
Fasting and petition are closely linked.
Esther urged Mordecai and the Jews to fast for her as she planned to appear unbidden before her husband, the king.
This fast prepared Esther for that meeting.
It filled her with faith and increased her capacity for self sacrifice,
while also clearing the way for God to impart His wisdom to her.
The survival of her people depended on her willingness to lay down her life... if i perish, i perish...
She knew it was more than she could face in her own strength so she drew on the strength of her God.
i believe it also broke the hold of the enemy over her husband, the king and allowed his heart to be softened
and able to hear her heart and her petition for the lives of her people.
Why fast, it makes us strong in faith and strong in the spirit.
It strengthens us for spiritual battle, as food strenthens the body for a physical battle.
Fasting is simply going to the word for spiritual food or meals instead of to the kitchen for physical food.
It is inviting God to dinner and telling Him what is on your heart.
No food lots of water
or however the Lord leads you as you learn to fast.
Water with lemon juice in it
Water and juice
Water and vegetables only ... Daniel fast
It does not matter as long as your flesh is denied and and you are in the Word.
love
handmaiden |
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee
Post Number: 69
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 12:07 am: | |
Thank you, handmaiden, & all others---it's starting to make more sense to me--I really like how you say it strengthens us for spiritual battle! I'm eager to participate in it--it seems that it is something that helps us focus, really focus, on God... (With all our family members & friends that are spiritually bound, I have a funny picture in my mind of a whole bunch of skinny formers! ) And I don't mean that in an irreverent way. This new way of life is such a n exciting, dynamic adventure!!! I would not trade it for what I had as an SDA for ANYTHING! |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 961
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 9:05 am: | |
Fasting DOES work in battling the enemy, because in order to bring me out of the SDA church, Handmaiden fasted and prayed for me! I'm here to say that it worked! |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 967
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 7:09 pm: | |
Cordurb; back when I was an Adventist, if something like that had happened to me, say, if I was the Adventist wife in a similar situation; I would have tried my hardest to get my husband to pay tithe to the church I thought was the "one true church."
However, I would never have divorced him if I couldn't get him to do it.
Is your wife willing to ask the Lord to show her if the SDA church is true or not, and really mean it? I've been trying to ask my mother to ask the Lord that and she doesn't want to. She says it would "hurt His feelings," because she "knows" she's in the "one true church."  |
Cordurb
Registered user
Username: Cordurb
Post Number: 30
Registered: 4-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 8:11 pm: | |
I think she is willing to read, look at, anything with as long as I do the same for her. What do you have in mind? |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 204
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 8:54 am: | |
"I've been trying to ask my mother to ask the Lord that and she doesn't want to. She says it would "hurt His feelings," because she "knows" she's in the "one true church."
Asurprise... I can relate to that one :-(
My MIL first acted interested in hearing what I was learning online about the SDA church until an old friend visited her one day and convinced her that God led her into the SDA church and she should not have doubts... now she shows no interest. She will read other peoples writings that are not SDA but as soon as they say saomething against the law (esp. Sabbath) she blocks it out. She was telling me the other day about a good book she was reading (non SDA) and said she liked it but that "when it comes down to DOCTRINE I know what I believe and I dont care what anyone else thinks". So sad.... but I will continue to pray for her.. God only can put a crack in that armour and let some REAL truth get in. |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 968
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 7:12 pm: | |
Mainly I had in mind for her to ask God to reveal His truth to her. If she means it, the Lord will certainly show her the truth. That's one prayer, He always says yes to! Second, though; reading the New Testament starting with the gospel of John together would be good.
Then there are some good scriptures to point out to her; such as Hebrews 8:13 where it says the old covenant is obsolete and Deuteronomy 4:13 and Deuteronomy 5 which identifies the 10 commandments as the old covenant.
Maybe point out that "testament" means "covenant" and mention that the Sabbath isn't commanded in the new covenant. Furthermore, the New Testament shows that Jesus is the fulfillment of all the Sabbaths... yearly/seasonal, monthly and weekly (Colossians 2:16,17) and that it no longer matters if one observes a day or not (Romans 14:5).
An excellent book that thoroughly covers the Sabbath and how it's a shadow of Jesus, is the book by Greg Taylor about his journey out of Adventism; "Discovering the New Covenant." (You can find it by clicking on the "related websites" on the home page here, then going to Dale Ratzlaff's LAM online store.) |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 969
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2009 - 7:16 pm: | |
Cordurb, I forgot to mention that I'm praying for your wife, and Skeeter, I'm praying for your MIL. |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 103
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 8:25 pm: | |
Nowisee
as those who met me in Roseburg can tell you i am far from skinny. i wish!!!
i am sorry i do not have River's metabolism.
i am glad that you are excited to learn the things of God and leave the ways of sda behind.
You bring joy to my heart with your enthusiasim.
Have you spent a day in God's Word while astaining from food???
How are you doing Cordurb???
Skeeter , i am sorry that your mil has closed down but continue to tell her the truth anyway as part of normal conversation...."This is how God spoke to me in prayer this morning" or "this verse just jumped out at me while i was reading the Word "or "God just means so much more in my life as i continue to draw close to Him"..."i just can't believe how much He loves me"...etc.
When i was being told the truth about what the Bible said as opposed to what i BELIEVED...there came a point where i shut down, too and i did not want to hear any more....but the one witnessing to me, worked with me and he was always so happy and talking about the goodness of God and how much God loved him and i longed to have that too.
i wanted to know that God loved me and was not just waiting for me to mess up so he could hold it against me. i had to ask how he knew that God loved him so much ....well out came the Bible again Thank God he did not give up on me when i was such a stubborn one to deal with.
Remember to love and have mercy on those who are still captive to the enemy as we all once were.
Remember that but for the grace and mercy of God you would be there still.
love and prayers
handmaiden |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10237
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 15, 2009 - 11:41 pm: | |
Cordurb, I would also recommend Greg Taylor's book--or even some of the stories on the "Stories" page of this website. You can check them out and see if one or more might appeal to her.
Greg and Paula Taylor's story is on this site; it has a mini Bible study summarizing Greg's processing of the Sabbath. There are also other stories there that are very good. The faith stories in Proclamation are also good--they're more "bite-sized" than a book.
Greg's book, though, is good--and if she's a failry conservative Adventist, Dale Ratzlaff's autobiography Truth Led Me Out is very good. It's detailed, names names, and tells his own story of discovering the gospel.
Colleen |
Cordurb
Registered user
Username: Cordurb
Post Number: 31
Registered: 4-2009
| | Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 5:22 am: | |
Thanks. I will check out these things. |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1758
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 11:41 am: | |
I still remember the days when official Adventism had special fast days--typically, on Saturdays. Although the Torah prohibited fasting on the weekly Sabbath for the Hebrew people, Seventh-day Adventists simply disregarded the Sabbath laws as they still do in many ways. Interestingly, however, I haven't read or heard about Adventists corporately fasting in decades. Anybody know why?
Dennis Fischer |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10245
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 1:52 pm: | |
Oh, my goodness, Dennis, you're right. I had totally forgotten they did that, but I remember it now! No, I don't know why they've abandoned it...perhaps it was too hard to "sell"—or people felt too guilty or conflicted. I remember feeling extremely conflicted over the "shoulds" and "oughts" Adventists said I should do.
I suspect fasting and prayer in the SDA setting was uncomfortable in a way similar to foot washing only with less overt reasons for the discomfort. I never liked feeling the guilt I felt for recoiling from the religious demands the church made. Some things just felt "icky" or invasive or controlling, but I felt guilt for feeling uncomfortable...I suspect fasting and prayer in that setting created similar effects...
Colleen |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 224
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Monday, August 17, 2009 - 4:24 pm: | |
The churches I attended all did the foot washing "ordinance of humility" but never a fast on Sabbath... can't do without those weekly pot lucks ! LOL
Does anyone here now attend a church that does the foot washing as part of the communion service ?
I never minded washing anyones feet, just felt funny having someone wash mine :-/
But....arent we told by Jesus that we are to do the footwashing ? I think I read that not long ago the verse and that it was a "command" because Jesus said of it "do this" ?? |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 1760
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - 7:37 am: | |
Peter, perhaps on behalf of others, spoke up in indignation that Jesus would stoop so low as to wash his feet. He failed to see beyond the humble service itself to the symbolism of spiritual cleansing involved. Jesus' response made the real point of His actions clear: Unless the Lamb of God cleanses a person's sin (i.e., as portrayed in the symbolism of washing), one can have no part with Him. Importantly, the cleansing that Christ does at salvation never needs to be repeated--Atonement is complete at that point. But all who have been cleansed by God's gracious justification need constant washing in the experiential sense as they battle sin in the flesh.
Believers are justified and granted imputed righteousness, but they need sanctification and personal righteousness (Phil. 3:12-14). Jesus' purpose in foot washing was to establish the model of loving humility. By the way, our SDA friends always have footwashing prior to the Lord's supper, but the Bible says Jesus "rose from supper" or during the meal to wash the disciple's feet. Thus, they are not as exact as they think they are in this regard.
Moreover, we should not establish any doctrine upon only one reference in Scripture. Unlike footwashing, the Lord's Supper is mentioned in all four of the Gospel narratives. Truly, Christ-followers exhibit their sincere humility in a vast array of real life circumstances and not merely in a ritualistic sense every three months. The Bible does not say that the early believers went from house to house washing each other's feet, but rather "breaking bread" together.
Dennis Fischer |
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee
Post Number: 81
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 - 12:02 am: | |
The footwashing was a hospitable thing to do for your guests, wasn't it? Dusty roads & sandals. I always tried to feel more 'holy' after footwashing, but I didn't really. It was kind of weird--esp. having someone wash your clean feet through panty-hose. I think before PH, we had to take our nylons off. And the break to dismiss for foot washing was mostly a time when most of the members sneaked out & went home. |
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