| Author | Message | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1549 Registered: 6-2006  |
This is just a random question I have for the formers. When you were SDA did you limit yourself to SDA authors? Or even music for that matter? I ask because I notice that my FIL only reads SDA material. I'm wondering if he's more of an extreme, or if this is typical? Did EGW discourage members from reading other authors? If you did read other authors like C.S. Lewis for example, how did that affect your way of thinking? Thanks~ p.s. I saw a Proclamation mag on his desk the other day, right next to a Desire of Ages book. Again, I was impressed that the Proc. wasn't in the trash! That's the second time that I'm aware...  Leigh Anne | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 165 Registered: 12-2007 |
Leigh Anne I never limited myself to just SDA authors. I didn't read CS Lewis books either because I was told that the stories he told were of "witchcraft" Dont know if thats true or not cause I havent ever read one. My MIL who is VERY SDA reads other authors. She said she likes reading what other people believe,, she recently read some JW literature and told me that she agrees with a lot of what they said,, until at the end they said something negative about the Sabbath. :-{ So... I am assuming she likes reading other authors as long as they dont step on any SDA toes. Francie | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 1057 Registered: 7-2004  |
Leigh Anne, That is very typical of traditional EGW-adherent SDAs. Today, it would be considered extreme, but it was not extreme when I was growing up, at least in our area. Ellen White did specifically forbid novels and fairy tales. And I'm sure she influenced (if not stated) the idea that any non-SDA source is spiritually dangerous. I've heard SDAs quote many times "If they speak not according to the Law and the testimony, it is because there is no light in them." The SDA understanding of the verse is really circular reasoning. If an author is not in 100% agreement with SDA theology, then there is absolutely nothing good to be gained by reading them (speaking mainly of non-SDA Christian authors). Even the SDA schools all have their own authored and published textbooks, although as accreditation requirements have changed they do allow more in than they used to. (My mom spoke to my teachers before admonishing that they were not following EGW's counsel by allowing classic literature in the classroom.) All the way through 8th grade we had SDA-written Science books and Reading books, in addition to their Bible class books. It was really kind of funny that my first Sally, Dick and Jane books from early elementary had all the jewelry removed from the characters. I still remember two different Sally stories: one where she was getting ready for the Sabbath, and another where she thought getting ready for Jesus to come meant packing a suitcase. I was surprised to find out many years later that public schools also had the Sally, Dick and Jane books - but the characters had jewelry and the stories didn't have a highly moral tone and stuff about Sabbath and getting ready for Jesus to come. I think I found this out when dating Rick. All our media input was SDA. Besides the Uncle Arthur bedtime stories and Bible story books, there was the Eric B Hare mission story records, the Sabbath School lessons on records, Del Delker and Heritage singers music. I remember around my early teen years or a little later begging for a Christmas record by Evie (I think that was her name, a pretty, blonde Christian but non-SDA singer). My mom wasn't so sure about that and carefully read all the lyrics before deciding maybe it would be okay. For the serious SDA, it's all about keeping oneself pure and untainted from the outside world, keeping the questions at bay - in other words, mind control. (Message edited by Raven on July 31, 2009) | ||
| Akweavers Registered user Username: Akweavers Post Number: 169 Registered: 8-2008 |
We never read anything that was not published by sda. I remember always flipping the book over to see who published it. If it wasn't one of the sda publishers it wasn't even considered. Music wasn't as strict but if there were references to going to heaven as soon as you die or something else not sda we had to be told ever time how that was not correct. "No light in them" equals worthless to read. You will be mislead by satan's lies. | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 486 Registered: 7-2004 |
Leigh Anne, my experience mirrors Raven's almost exactly. There was a fear of being led astray by reading non-ellen books. I myself, loved C.S. Lewis and other Christian authors as I got older, even as an adventist. But the generation before was very much against outside influences. I had no idea that I was reading and adventist version of Dick and Jane!! I'm sure that's what we had, Raven, although I didn't realize it. I did love the Uncle Arthur's books and records. My mom loved Del Delker (I personally did not). I do notice my adventist brother's family will read Phillip Yancy, and other Christian authors. He also watches Hal Lindsey. However, he is careful to point out that he doesn't believe he is on the right track in many areas. So adventists today probably read and listen to the outside Christian world with the "adventist glasses" on, which filter out anything that doesn't agree with ellen. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7300 Registered: 3-2004  |
My experience was like Raven's. My Mom bought only SDA books. We did not have records as my folks could not afford a record player. My half sister bought one after she started working when she graduated from academy - a wind up record player. So I was exposed to "worldly music" through her. We also had the Reader's Digest and an occasional National Geographic. I learned we would be led by Satan if we read anyting not published by SDAs. Diana L | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 481 Registered: 8-2008 |
It really depends on what kind of SDAism you are brought up in. The more conservative SDAs will rarely, if ever, read non-SDA material. I was raised with C.S. Lewis being read in the home. However, when I read him or anyone else, it was always with the SDA blinders on. Most certainly not the case. He wrote a lot of non-fiction that aren't in story form. Books like Mere Christianity and The Problem of Pain and Miracles. The latter is by far the best of his non-fiction. His fiction books, The Chronicles of Narnia series, are not witchcraft. In fact, they are anti-witchcraft. They are my favorite books outside of the Bible. They're outstanding, marked by a singular spiritual depth that people often miss. | ||
| Psalm107v2 Registered user Username: Psalm107v2 Post Number: 378 Registered: 10-2008  |
It is quite possible for an SDA conservative or not to have not read non SDA material. I have no memory of reading anything non SDA until adulthood (other than the required Shakespeare and Waiting for Godot while in my local SDA highschool). Ultimately, non SDA radio and nonSDA bookstores and reading material played a role in leading me to become a Christian. Ironically when I was in my early 20s I read JW materials because I thought they did a better job of "explaining" the state of the dead Thank God He uses all kinds of methods to reach people | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 679 Registered: 2-2008  |
In the spring of '06 (which was the last year my kids went to an SDA school), their school had a "reading rewards" field trip to Barnes and Noble. This is where they could pick out a book as a reward for reading throughout the year. They were not allowed to pick out any of the Narnia books because the principal seem to think they had witchcraft in them... just look at the title, it had a "witch" in it! I think that was their line of reasoning...  vivian | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 939 Registered: 7-2007 |
The "Chronicles of Narnia" series, is a Christian allegory actually. In the first one, "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe," the Lion represents Jesus and the witch represents Satan. When the boy Edmund betrays his brother, sisters and the creatures of Narnia to the witch; she claims "legal" ground over Edmund, insisting on her right to kill him; much like Satan claimed legal ground over the human race. The Lion, Aslan, dies in Edmund's place and then comes back to life. There's a few things that I don't like in the story, but otherwise, I like it a lot! I bought the movie! When I was SDA, when it came to religious stuff, I only read SDA literature and the Bible with SDA glasses on. I didn't read other Christian authors because I thought I might be decieved! Now, I think we are a little like Martin Luther who discovered what the Bible REALLY says. We're trying to share that with SDAs, telling them to go by "the Bible and the Bible only!" but they're clinging to Ellen White and refusing to give her up! | ||
| Handmaiden Registered user Username: Handmaiden Post Number: 78 Registered: 7-2008 |
A sure way to keep people in their error is by forbidding them or discouraging them from reading anything that might lead them to the Truth = Jesus. When i was growing up a catholic..a long time ago, we were taught that going to ANY other church was a mortal sin. We were taught that ONLY the catholic priests could read the Bible and they would tell us what it said. For centuries the catholic church kept the Word of God from the "common" people. God specifically had the New Testament written in Koine Greek, the common everyday, almost universal language of the day; sort of like English is today. He meant for His Word to go out to all the world and be read by alllll mankind. catholics are taught that Jesus is actually present in the commuion host (wafer of bread). They teach that we must basically injest God to have Him living in us. Jesus said "unless you eat my flesh you can have no part with me." The WORD became FLESH ..... To eat His FLESH is to eat His WORD it is spiritual food to our spirits and is only spiritually discerned. His Words are life to me handmaiden | ||
| Mommamayi Registered user Username: Mommamayi Post Number: 835 Registered: 12-2007  |
The only non SDA reading material I remember growing up, would have been the Reader's Digest and National Geographic, like Diana mentioned, and the Little House on the Prairie series that I checked out of the school library. Once I was in highschool, I was allowed to spend time at the public library, and choose my own books, but I simply checked out things like books on beauty or fitness. I had always been taught that fiction, novels and fairy tales were discouraged by EGW. My mom would often treat me to a book at the ABC or campmeeting so that I would have some exciting or romantic stories for fun. Gotta love those bible and academy/SDA college romances. Besides all the SDA music mentioned, we also listened to classical music and my parents had some records from the big band era when they were growing up. While away at academy, I was introduced to Amy Grant and loved her. When my parents weren't home, or I was driving myself to work in the summers, I would listen to the top 40 countdown music of the 80's. | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 309 Registered: 3-2009 |
Pretty much the same for me. No fiction, no books with animals talking, no imagination/fairy tales, etc. In other words, nothing that's too much fun! As a young adult, my mom would comment about how I wasn't reading any SDA books anymore for my devotions and spiritual growth. She still wonders why I don't read "The Review". I have always found the other Christian reading material MUCH more uplifting. For many years, I wondered why God's Special Remnant Church literature left me feeling so empty. The only SDA book I really, really appreciate is "Never Good Enough" by Carol Cannon. She's pretty critical of the Adventist system in that book. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 178 Registered: 12-2007 |
I have that book... I got it a month or so ago but when I saw it was SDA published, I set it aside and have not read it. Francie | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 406 Registered: 3-2009 |
Since this thread talks about reading, I am going to make a comment on a new way of making the SDAs belief that when they read EGW they are reading the Bible.No tricks, just good psychology. Most of us know that there is an EGW book called The Story of Redemption which is an abridgment of the Great Controversy series. (for the never has-been, the Great Controversy series are five books that purport to explain the entire Bible stating in Genesis and ending at Revelation.} But now there is another book out called The History of Redemption.which includes not an abridgment, but evey word of the series: Patriarchs and Prophets, Prophets and Kings, Desires of Ages, Acts of the Apostles and The Great Controversy. To those they have added Thoughts from the Mount of Blessings, Christ Object Lessons, and Steps to Christ The clever part is the format of the book. It is a "facsimile of a Bible. Each page has two columns, narrow margins, Bible printing paper, same fonts, same lay out of a traditional two collum Bible. I had not seen this book before. Today my BIL was reading it and I though he was reading the Bible. When he finished reading an placed it in a table, I noticed that its name is "The History of Redemption, by Ellen White.1423 pages. When I oppened it, it ran hot under my collar. I just thought, is this one more trick to make the members belief that they are reading the scriptures because the are reading EGW in Bible format? or am I getting too sensitive at the manipulations used to get the member to concentrate more in EGW than in the Bible? Hec | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 310 Registered: 3-2009 |
Oooo, interesting psychological analysis, Hec. In the book "White Washed", there's an similar idea presented. Many photographs of EGW show her holding a large Bible. It's a way of getting people to unconsciously begin to associate the two together. No, you are not too sensitive about this, Hec. Keep your sensitivity toward these matters because I believe it's the Spirit speaking to you. The Bible is worth being defended. Francie, please listen to your conscience about reading "Never Good Enough". I haven't read it since I came out of Adventism, and there may be some errors sprinkled in it. I can give you the nutshell version without you having to read it. 1. Many SDAs are workaholics--doing the "work-of-the-Lord"--and their children are neglected. This is particularly true of PKs and TKs in the system. 2. SDAs have a very unhealthy stance toward alcohol, such that when their kids finally do use it, they use it irresponsibly such as binge drinking on an empty stomach, etc. 3. SDA parents do not trust God with their children's salvation and well-being and are manipulative and controlling as a result. She clearly labels this as abuse and makes no excuses for it. 4. Whenever a parent/teacher tells a child what to feel and what not to feel, this is spiritual and emotional abuse. She gives several examples of this happening in the system. 5. She talks about the idea of being addicted to religion rather than walking in the Spirit (not sure she uses that term exactly). Religious addiction is relying on rules, pride, tradition, and status within the system to give you self-worth and make you happy. A religious addict is proud of their standing in Jesus, not because of His work, but because of their own works. Also, when someone is hurting, the religious addict is likely tell the person that it's because s/he is not living up to Jesus' standards, etc. I'm truly surprised that the author didn't get kicked out of the church for her views. I read the book as a young adult, and it was one of the many things that prepared my heart and mind for eventually leaving Adventism. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5322 Registered: 9-2006  |
No Hec, you are not getting too sensitive. In considering something like Adventism you must take into consideration the forces that drive it. You can call it the spirit of anti-christ, the spirit of adventism, the spirit of deceit, demon driven, or any number of terms to communicate with other humans that evil is behind it at the core. This is by no means getting off into spiritism to talk like this, but merely bypassing the human component to ferret out truth so we may understand what we are up against. Failure to understand the spiritual components is failure to discern, therefore leaving one helpless when faced with it. It may very well sound degrading to the recipient of such talk, but is not meant to be, it is meant to communicate with other Christians the need for prayer and how to pray for the persons deliverance from such bondage. Satan will use any substitute for the blood of Christ, but we as Christians know there is not now or can never be a substitute for Christ redemption, death and resurrection on the cross for all sins. If the anti-christ can get anyone to believe there is a substitute he has destroyed and defeated Gods will in that persons life for the moment. Jesus called him the father of lies. Like a lion going about seeking whom he may devour, the devourer and many other names. The end result is torment and destroying of lives. You can expect no mercy from his direction so we ask no quarter and receive none from him, it is a war to the death, total and final war. The great failure of Christians is to think we are helpless in the face of something like this. That is what he wants your to think, he wants to overpower you, or make you think he doesn't exist, or that he is benign. He uses all means, such as you just mentioned, to keep the subjects in bondage. Jesus said that we must first bind the strong man in order to spoil his goods, Matt.12:29. But in taking all this into consideration and while keeping these things in mind, we need to be careful to pray for them and love them for God. So there is a spiritual component and a human component to deal with here. As in Ephesians 5:8-11 we need to find out what is acceptable to the Lord, in our interactions with them for in verse 9 it says that the fruit of the spirit is goodness, righteousness and truth and to pray for them as we ought, not with blame placing, but pleadings to God for mercy to them. In contending for the faith, Those who have received the doctrine of this common salvation, must contend for it, earnestly, not furiously. Lying for the truth is bad; scolding for it is not better. Those who have received the truth must contend for it, as the apostles did; by suffering with patience and courage for it, not by making others suffer if they will not embrace every notion we call faith, or important. (a Bible commentary on Jude 1:9-15) It is very hard to keep this all in mind as I communicate with Adventist from day to day and to keep love as an overriding factor and remember to love them for God.But in loving them for God it leads me to pray earnestly for their salvation. As usual, I got long winded again, but I just think we need to keep these things in mind and I have to remind myself daily of the things, because I do communicate with them every of the week. I'll tell you one thing, that is a lot different than having an occasional run in with them, it will keep you on your toes. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5323 Registered: 9-2006 |
Seekinglight, are you a practicing psychologist? A student of psychology or a teacher of psychology or what? I never have gotten that straight just what you do? Of course there is no need to answer that unless you care too. I just have a hard time understanding the function of an Adventist university as I have only attended a normal old American university. River | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 491 Registered: 8-2008 |
Seekinglight, I'm surprised the Ellenists didn't burn that sister at the stake! One decent SDA book was written by a Pastor at an SDA church I used to attend. It's called One Thing I Know (And Other Stuff I Strongly Suspect) by James Coffin. There are some Adventists errors in it in various places, but also some neat perspectives on things, particularly on the healing of the man born blind in John 9. | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 407 Registered: 3-2009 |
Carol Cannon the author of Never Good Enough has written anther book called Hooked On Unhappiness. They are both sold by the ABC. It's interesting that the ABC sells her books since she is so critical of the SDA institution. She and her husband have a ministry called The Bridge to Recovery in Bowling Green, KY. They have live-in therapy programs for addicts and codependents. The programs can be one, two, or three months. They are based on the 12 steps programs. They do not use the SDA religion materials. They even have regular instruction and therapy all day Saturday and instead of going to " church" they go to AA or NA meetings. Hec |
