Post Number: 106
|Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 5:09 am: || |
I know it has been a while since I posted, but I have a question.
Acts 2:20 says: “The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood.” I know that SDA church says this happened on May 19, 1780. Also, Matthew 24:29 says “the stars shall fall from heaven,” which they say happened on November 13, 1833.
Just trying to figure out our place in time, and I didn’t know if those verses were as “telling” as the SDA church tries to say they are. Does anyone have an opinion on these verses and the SDA's belief that they already happened? Thanks!
Post Number: 1788
|Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 5:46 am: || |
Local events centered in the New England area are, in no way, a fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. The "blood" in the sky was most likely the result of that particular summer's long forest fires. "Falling star" showers happen all the time but are of limited duration and location. Using SDA logic, you could name any one of these events and call it fulfillment of Bible prophecy.
Such reasoning I call "hockey puck", barnyard style. The more you get into it the deeper it gets.
The Bible, on the other hand, is speaking of events that will have meaning to the whole world.
Post Number: 278
|Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 6:03 am: || |
I have done a study on this topic a while back and cannot find my notes, but in the bible when it speaks of Sun, Moon and Stars it usually is using it as a sign for Kingdoms, Kings, rulers, and the people. God spoke through the prophets to talk about the destruction of Babylon, Egypt, etc. He said he would darken the sun, moon and stars, The moon will become as blood. In Ancient times people believed that the solar and lunar eclipses were signs usually bad signs. Well God would use the language and cultures of those times to teach His truth. When God spoke of darkening the sun, moon and stars for Egypt and Babylon he was talking about destroying their rule, their kingdom.
God also established Israel as the Sun, Moon and Stars, and they certainly were for signs for all the world. When Joseph had the dream about the Sun, Moon and 11 stars bowing down and worshipping him, Jacob (Israel) even said would I, your mother and brothers bow and worship you. When God made the promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob He stated that their offspring would be as numerous as the stars. I believe the darkening of the Sun, Moon and stars in Revelation to be that of the ending of Old Covenant Israel. Surely God would cause an actual solar, lunar eclipse, but I don't believe it is a worldwide event.
I will look for my notes and post it when I get the chance.
Post Number: 755
|Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 7:54 am: || |
Luke, who most likely wrote Acts (Is quoting Peter at Pentecost) is actually quoting from Joel 2. May I make a recommendation that you read the book of Joel.
One thing I find is that when I go back to what I used to understand scripturally - and look at the context of the passage - I realize that Adventist interpretation took the passage out of the context in which it was written.
My immediate take ... The 1780 and 1833 dates are "far-fetched" in my mind ... because this Joel quote is amidst talk about judgment day or the Day of the Lord ...
This is what my study Bible says, "Universal wonders related to the day of the Lord are war-like activities on earth and unnatural events in the sky. Some interpreters hold that these events of judgment, which did not take place at Pentecost will still take place sometime in the future, at the return of Christ. These interpreters hold that OT prophecies should often be understood in terms of both a near-term and a long-term fulfillment - with some long-term events being fulfilled when Jesus brought the good news of salvation at his first coming, but with other long-term events being fulfilled when he will return in judgment at his second coming. Other interpreters hold that the language used here should be understood as prophetic symbolism for God's judgment, and that no specific literal fulfillment is intended." ESV Study Bible notes in Joel.
The Joel prophesy of the Spirit being poured out was happening on the Day of Pentecost. But the other parts of the prophesy could ofcourse happen later - at the Day of the Lord.
I love the tension of scripture ... because there are times when we can say, "Don't know" ... not like in Adventism where we have to have an answer for everything.
Happy studying, Michelle
Post Number: 75
|Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 10:40 am: || |
You can google those dates with "dark day" and "meteor shower" and find out exactly what happened. One would think that the SDA church could do a little research...but that would be too dangerous for them. For a church that talks about the "truth" so much, they really seem allergic to it!
I posted that information on Revival Sermons website once, but of course, nothing can sway them from what Ellen says!!!!!!
Post Number: 10277
|Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 1:16 pm: || |
Michelle, Revelation also uses similar symbolism as the events of the tribulation unfold. Between the OT prophets and Revelation and the words of Jesus about the sun, moon and stars preceding the sign of the coming Son of Man, I don't think it's a stretch to think something of global and cosmic proportions will happen just prior to the return of Jesus.
We know God has already worked with global events to effect judgment (the flood, for example), and we know the earth was completely changed after that. Many scientists say that core samples and other evidence suggests that prior to the flood, there was a different atmosphere with much higher oxygen content and a protective moisture layer that blocked a lot of radiation from the sun—conditions which would have supported much longer life spans and promoted healing.
At any rate, we don't have to suppose the references to the heavenly bodies are only symbolic. They may well be symbolic, but the Bible and Revelation and even Jesus do refer to effects caused by cataclysms in the cosmos.
But no, the Adventist dates are just random. They have no relationship to the events the Bible says will accompany them. Those dates were chosen because they nailed Adventist eschatology and happened close to the 1844 prophecy which Adventists insist was a REAL date marking a real event ushering in God's final work.
Post Number: 107
|Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 6:47 pm: || |
Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond to my question. I know the SDA church is a false church, built on false teachings. I was at a Bible study the other night, and these verses came up. I knew what the Adventist belief was, so being the "former" that I am, I had the desire to find the error in their teachings on this particular issue.
I am constantly amazed at the obviously false teachings of the SDA church. And this one just added more amazement--can you imagine all those fanatics running around prophesizing that the November, 1833 event pointed to the 2nd coming of Jesus!!
Thanks again to everyone on FAF for being such an awesome ministry!