| Author | Message | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 991 Registered: 7-2007 |
When I was an Adventist, there were verses that I didn't understand so I'd skip over them. Verses like: "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink of in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." Colossians 2:16,17 and "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. but if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake." Philippians 1:21-24 How about the rest of you? | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 636 Registered: 7-2008  |
The text I keep tripping over is the statement by Christ when He talks about the Second Coming. He says that no one knows the day nor the hour of His return,,,including Himself. Only the Father knew. If Jesus and the Father are ONE, how could he say that He didnt know the day of His Coming? This text has always given me headaches...sigh. Guess I am not a very brught snimsl... lol lol Animal...pass the rootbeer (Message edited by animal on August 25, 2009) | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1792 Registered: 5-2007  |
Animal, While on earth, Jesus spoke of his Father in heaven and at the same time, referred to them being "One". The challenge is that we do not comprehend the full nature of who God is. We have 'word pictures' describing God but they are only 'shadows' of the full extent of just who he is. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. (I Cor. 13:12 ESV) P.S. In relation to our last comunication: I am the one who is always "joking around" and telling "long stories" where people often forget what my point is. But, the thought of wearing an 'Ellen mask' dit put the scare in me!  Fearless Phil | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 303 Registered: 4-2007 |
Much to my embarrassment, I was in neutral and could read these passages without a thought in my head, I didn’t think ANYTHING as an Adventist. When I actually started thinking about what I was reading, I left. HOOORAAAH!!! John | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 534 Registered: 8-2008 |
Yep, me too! Occasionally, I came across food discussions in 1 Tim. 4 or Romans 14 and thought it was odd. I remember sitting in church once reading Hebrews 9, where it said Jesus went into the MHP, and thinking, "huh?" I also remember reading that part where Paul talks about our tent in the heavens and not being able to make anything of it. Revelation 6:9-11, the part about the martyrs in heaven crying out to God, didn't make sense either. I always had to put an asterisk in all the places where Paul said we aren't under the Law. | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 649 Registered: 11-2004 |
I don't think I skipped over them. I knew what the Adventist interpretation was so I didn't give it a second thought. It wasn't until I started questioning things that I began to wonder about some verses. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 253 Registered: 12-2007 |
ASURPRISE: "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink of in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." Colossians 2:16,17 "" I remember asking about that one and was told that it meant that those (outside SDA) were wrong to judge US. THEY were not to judge the way we eat (abstaining from unclean) or that we worshiped on the Sabbath.. Well, while that explanation was true as far as it went... at the time I didnt realize that,, hey... that should go BOTH ways.. who were WE to judge others on those same issues. ?? But of course as a SDA I had those blinders on and could only see the one side... as THEM being AGAINST US. "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. but if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake." Philippians 1:21-24 All my years as a SDA I dont remember EVER seeing that verse before I started questioning and studying on my own. The martyrs in heaven crying out to God from under the alter is one that still confuses me. Is it only "martyrs" who were or are under the alter waiting.. or is it everyone who died before Christs ressurrection ? Are they still there ? I have heard that they left "under the alter" at the ressurrection and are now in heaven, and then I have also heard that everyone who dies (in Christ) is in a sort of "place of waiting and being comforted" and those who died lost are in a place of waiting in torment until Christ returns and the final judgment... but if that is true they have already been judged. (?) I think that one bothers me more than anything... do we go straight to Heaven or Hell ? are we in some sort of waiting in limbo till judgment.. ? Do the saved go straight to heaven and the unsaved go to a place of waiting until Christ returns ? I keep hearing different things from different people (SDA and non SDA) I know which ever way it is that it will be God's way and that it will be the best way.. and I shouldnt worry about it.. but I still do. I guess because there are SDA's I need to get through to and with a couple of them I think the state of the dead is the place to begin. Francie | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 637 Registered: 7-2008 |
When I was an adventist I was told what to believe. We werent encouraged to "think for ourselves." When we studied the book of Revelation we were told what all the symbols and imagery meant. Adventism had it ALL figured out...the beasts,,the mark of the Beast..the seal of God...plagues and trumpets. WE had all the answers and the rest of the churches were wrong in their interpretations. There was no reason to question the doctrines. We had EGW to back us up(cough,cough) Sigh...I was so deceived. Animal | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1141 Registered: 11-2007  |
I re-translated them in my head.. (reference my other thread on the SDA Thought Translation) "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. but if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake." Philippians 1:21-24 BECAME: For me, to live is Christ and to die is gain because it will seem like I am instantly with Christ, even though I'm not. But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to be bodily translated and be with Christ like Elijah was, for that is very much better, yet to remain on in this body on earth is more necessary for your sake. Notice... how the context had to change as the verse progressed in order for me to continue to deny the existence of the human spirit. I was one confused puppy. =) Sondra | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 469 Registered: 3-2009 |
The way I heard Col 2:16,17 explained was that "no one is to judge you" means that you obey the law. If you disobey the law then you are judged, if you obey the law, no one can judge you. Hec | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7389 Registered: 3-2004  |
When I was an SDA, I was like Animal. I was programmed and then spewed the beliefs out like a robot. I never saw anything I questioned. Wheeee, it is so good to be free of that. I finally realized I am not a robot. I am a human made in God's image. Thank you awesome God. Diana L | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10286 Registered: 12-2003  |
Yeah--I more or less turned a blind eye. When things didn't make sense, I ignored them...or else did a quick "thought translation" much like Sondra did(!). I know I always approached the Bible with the sense that the best way to understand the difficult parts was to "metaphor-ize" it...much like I might have done with a novel or other literature. I took great pride in being able to read meanings into or out of difficult literary passages...that's what I generally resorted to if I had to actually grapple with difficult biblical texts. Make no mistake, though--if I actually looked at the text for some reason, COGNITIVE DISSONANCE was the result... Colleen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 995 Registered: 7-2007 |
I also took things metaphorically, such as Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." (also 2nd Timothy 1:9 and Titus 3:5) Those verses didn't mesh with Ellen White saying that no one should say or feel they are saved, so I took BOTH metaphorically and arrived at a middle position which gave me a sort of "assurance" of salvation which never lasted. The Bible also says over and over that salvation is a free gift. I'd read that and think "yes, but...." Despite all this, I believed that the SDA church was true and that I somehow just didn't understand those verses correctly. I'm amazed looking back at how blind I was! I never even had cognitive dissonance! It took a series of miracles by the Lord and someone's fasting and prayer [Handmaiden], before I found out that the Adventist church was a cult. It came as a total surprise. (Hence the username Asurprise.) | ||
| Believer247 Registered user Username: Believer247 Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2009 |
U2bsda, I was like you, I knew the Adventist interpretation of the verses, so I didn't really think about it. If something didn't quite make sense, I thought there was something wrong with me that I just didn't understand it. When the veil started to be lifted, then I began to question and have cognitive dissonance. | ||
| Psalm107v2 Registered user Username: Psalm107v2 Post Number: 411 Registered: 10-2008  |
1 Thess 4: 13 and 14 at times still blows me away 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. How could I have believed in soul sleep and yet the Bible says that the saints who went home to be with the Lord come back with Him? And I thought the "family reunion" at the tour of Encouragement was amazing-how amazing will it be to be with that great cloud of witnesses  Enoch | ||
| Psalm107v2 Registered user Username: Psalm107v2 Post Number: 412 Registered: 10-2008 |
1 Thess 4: 13 and 14 at times still blows me away 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. How could I have believed in soul sleep and yet the Bible says that the saints who went home to be with the Lord come back with Him? And I thought the "family reunion" at the tour of Encouragement was amazing-how amazing will it be to be with that great cloud of witnesses Enoch | ||
| Churchavguy Registered user Username: Churchavguy Post Number: 15 Registered: 8-2007 |
Not having had anything to do with Adventism until I married one, what do Adventists do with Romans 14? Do they just toss it out, and avoid it? Lines like: One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables... Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. or: One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike... You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. These seem pretty clear to me. How do they argue their way around the message of Romans 14? | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 696 Registered: 7-2000 |
They argue it from the context of the old Mosaic law. Yes, you can eat anything meat wise that is allowed, but your brother may decide to be vegetarian---both are O.K. Etc.... |
