| Author | Message | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1792 Registered: 4-2000  |
The buzz word these days, in the United States at least, is "healthcare." Two evenings ago, I listened to a TV interview with the Director of the British Health Service. He stated that until a country reaches a consensus that healthcare is really a MORAL issue, there is little hope of having ample access to healthcare for every person. The very least we should wish for each other is good health. "Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in good health" (3 John 3 ESV). After all, it's alot harder to be a Christian with a sour stomach. Moreover, you can tell how healthy a man is by what he takes two at a time--stairs or pills. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1805 Registered: 5-2007  |
Well Dennis, It all depends. Overall, I am in excellant health. However, I have had two total knee replacements and I am here to tell you, the last thing you ever see me do is take two steps, up or down, when on a stair case. On what basis is healthcare a moral issue? Phil | ||
| Cordurb Registered user Username: Cordurb Post Number: 40 Registered: 4-2009 |
Dennis, It sounds like you think that it is a moral issue, and thus the government should supply everyone with healthcare for free? Guess what, it won't really be free. You will pay for, and I will pay for it. I could really use a more reliable car so I can get to work to feed my family. Is it a moral issue that the government provide me (and everyone who needs one) with a new car for free so I can get to work and feed my family? It is we the church job to rise up and meet the needs of hurting people. The government is there to protect and defend its citizens so that our freedoms are protected. No more, no less. The goal of our current regime is to make as many people reliant on the government as possible. That is not the answer. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5462 Registered: 9-2006  |
Well…ok for a good case of proof texting anyway, but lets just slow down a minute before we make health care a moral issue. Lets take a good look at this scripture. John III 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth. John III 1:3 For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth. John III 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. I have heard John III 1:2 quoted many times by the name it and claim it crowd. But John prays that the temporal prosperity and physical health of Gaius will be commensurate with his spiritual status which his generosity and conduct reveal to be in a healthy and prosperous condition. Wishing the reader good health probably was a social convention then, but Johns prayer was real and his prayer for the well being of the other provides a model for prayer and intersession. Health, however is not a gauge of a persons spiritual condition. Health, hugiano (hoog-ee, wealth ahee-no. Metaphorically, the word refers to sound doctrine. Just as he hears reports that Gaius walks in truth, he has no greater joy, than that his children walk in truth. Walking in the truth is the greater joy. So while we put so much importance on physical health matters, good spiritual health matters. And no, it is not harder to be a Christian with a sour stomach; I have seen men dying with cancer ridden bodies as they struggle to draw air into cancer eaten lungs, calling out the praises of God almost with their last gasp for air. This was their words, “Praise your name Jesus.” Our physical condition has no bearing at all on our spiritual condition. Just recently one of our own here on this forum used every ounce of strength she had to get to the computer and say a word of encouragement. In the very last E-mail she wrote, she was concerned for the spiritual well being of her brother, and I am sure her many friends on this forum was on her mind and the many prayers for her family, she rejoiced in her husbands faithfulness and so many other things as she faced her own demise. Her Christianity was so much a part of her that ill health did not take away one iota of it. Speaking of her brother, she wished above all that he prosper in the truth of Jesus. One of the dearest patients I ever had, I sat with until his death rejoiced in God’s truth and long after his death, the presence of God lingered in that room so sweetly. To sit in the room of that dying brother is like sitting in a room full of angels I kid you not. Stephen suffering horribly from stones pelting his body, yet he saw the heavens opened to him. His physical health wasn’t too good at the time. At the least we should keep each other in ours prayers and supplications for balanced spiritual life as well as health and prosperity. Theologians say these letters were written near the end of John’s life about AD 90, in the previous letter John forbade hospitality to false teachers, here in this letter he encourages hospitality to brethren who rejoice in truth. The world views health and prosperity as end in itself, however it needs to be the result of commitment, dedication and action that is in line with Gods word. River | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 526 Registered: 3-2009 |
Oh boy, if we get into politics, wait for the fireworks. Hec | ||
| Pegg Registered user Username: Pegg Post Number: 338 Registered: 2-2006 |
I don't think the British have much room to talk about MORAL issues in healthcare! Just go ask an otherwise healthy 65+ year old grandmother who needs kidney dialysis about their MORAL policies. Opps! I forgot. You can't. She's already dead! People die within just a few days or weeks when denied dialysis.  Ask the guy who can afford to pay on his own for an unlisted (because of price) drug, but will forfeit all other medical coverage if he chooses to spend his personal $$ to obtain it, the reason being that this would be unfair to those who cannot afford to purchase the same drug for themselves. What Do They Call It When You Have Your Dog Put To Sleep? Pegg (Message edited by pegg on September 08, 2009) (Message edited by pegg on September 08, 2009) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5467 Registered: 9-2006 |
Dog gone? | ||
| Benevento Registered user Username: Benevento Post Number: 309 Registered: 4-2005 |
The Government hasn't run businesses very well--and with all the spending goin' on we can't afford it-- Medicare and Medicade and Social Security that we trusted the government to run are all bankrupt--you wouldn't run your own household that way--Health care needs some reform, no question, but not the Government with the current plan--lets take more time, look for more options. I don't think the good Samaritan was a Roman health care worker. Peggy | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 2995 Registered: 10-2004  |
LOL, River. *has a feeling that Pegg was not introducing a joke*  Jeremy | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1793 Registered: 4-2000 |
Thank you very much for your comments. I realize that this topic is currently a hot potato. So, please don't bite me (smile). That would likely cause an additional healthcare problem. Interestingly, I have online friends in many of the industrialized nations that have healthcare for all their citizens. They have always spoken very positively about their nation's health service. In fact, they are very proud of their nation's health service. In Canada, for example, about 80 percent of the people like the Canadian Health Service (a high percentage for a government program). Likewise, my friends in New Zealand speak very highly of their national health service. The Canadian health service is so good that the United States found it necessary to make it illegal for busloads of seniors to regularly enter Canada to buy prescriptions for alot less money. Likewise, I have relatives who have gone to Canada for their dentistry because of less cost there. We all know about the outcry against abortion among religionists in our country. This I heartily applaud. Yet what about taking care of those already born--young and old? There are many ways to kill people besides abortion. Human beings are very fragile creatures--especially without adequate healthcare. Clearly, many suffer and die needlessly due to lack of proper healthcare. In fact, this has a way of affecting (healthwise) even those who actually receive excellent healthcare themselves. Isn't it a moral responsibility for a government to provide healthcare for all its people (especially the richest nation on earth)? There is something terribly amiss when we can go to the moon and search the far away planets and yet we can't afford healthcare for our own people. Sixty-seven percent of all bankruptcies in our country are now health related. With more joblessness on the horizon, more and more employees will lose their health insurance coverage. Still others are finding themselves in jobs not paying enough to afford private health insurance policies for their families. The recent auto industry crisis was largely created by the high cost of healthcare. Every new car we buy costs increasingly more due to the escalating healthcare costs of the manufacturer. Throughout this economic crisis, the insurance companies are making record profits. There is alot of cost shifting going on. In my view, accessible healthcare is clearly a moral issue as the Director of the British Health Service recently stated. Obviously, there is severe "rationing" of healthcare when nearly fifty million Americans do not have ample access to the current delivery system. Moreover, the current administrative costs of healthcare are outrageous and unsustainable. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 394 Registered: 3-2009 |
Dennis and Pegg, I agree completely. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5469 Registered: 9-2006 |
Communist thought a chicken in every pot was a moral reason to have communism. Liberals want a chicken in every pot, republicans say 'lets not'. In my view the moral issue is not in a liberal health care system, the moral issue is a country that has been lulled to sleep by its own fatness of self and has created its own crisis of morality. Sinking under its own weight of sin, it elects a smooth talker as it leader and proclaims, lead us to victory and a chicken in every pot. Strike the name of God from our money, our schools, our public games, and we will put our own chicken in every pot. Give me a bowl of lintels for I am famished, I care not for my inheritance, cries the people, and we end up with Mexicans nationals in the streets waving a Mexican flag and demanding their chicken too. One neighbor says, "I don't care about the guy across the street, just as long as I got my chicken." True caring is not hiring a doctor with government money, the issue is not a moral one, the issue is absence of a moral at all. River | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 534 Registered: 7-2004 |
Amen, Amen, River. That is a perfect analogy. The main problem is the moral decline of society! Capitalism cannot work with greed and moral decay. I live in south Texas and every emergency room is full of people that live across the border coming in for colds, pregnancy, etc. because it is free to them, while we who work and pay for our insurance have to wait in the crowded waiting rooms for real emergencies. I feel very much compassion for the sick, poor and the helpless, which Jesus said would be with us always. I do feel that we can always do more as a church and community. But if the government steps in, things are going to change BIG time. We will be told when and how to deal with our sick, elderly, poor and helpless. Many of those who are uninsured in America are the 20 and 30 somethings who don't feel the need to spend money on insurance. The sad cases are those who work hard, but don't make enough to buy private insurance and don't qualify for Medicaid. If they could work on that with reform it maybe could help. Really, the only answer out there is for Jesus to come soon! | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 577 Registered: 8-2008 |
I have a question: What isn't a moral issue? I'd love everyone to have healthcare. I'd love everyone to have plenty of food. I'd love everyone to have nice clothes. I'd love everyone to have a great job. I'd love everyone to have a nice house. Problem is, because of our fallen nature, this isn't the world where such things are possible. So I believe in a better world: I want everyone to be born in Jesus Christ, to live in Him now and have eternal life in the better world to come. | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 395 Registered: 3-2009 |
I also agree with you, Brent. However, although it's not possible in this sinful world for everyone to have basic human rights, I will never stop trying to make that a reality. | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 683 Registered: 7-2008  |
I think the consumption of popcorn and rootbeer is a very moral issue. What do you think? Animal | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 527 Registered: 3-2009 |
When the disciples told Jesus to dismiss the people because it was late and they were hungry, what was Jesus answer to His disciples? I think it was, "you give them something to eat." Could that be applied to health needs? If Jesus were here with his disciples and a few sick people were around, would Jesus send them away or would he tell his disciples, you give them something to heal them. I worked very hard for over 30 years and lost my job. With the lost of my job, I lost my health insurance. I am looking for a job but with the economy the way it is I've been unemployed for over a year. I have not health insurance. Is that because I'm lazy? Is that because I don't want to work? I think it is because I cannot afford it. So what's the option? I guess for many people it would be for me to die. For others it would be to have some solution to this health crisis. Is that moral? Two years ago, I was well insured, but there were many uninsured and underinsured. Today there are many right here in this forum who are well insured, but tomorrow they might not be. Wouldn't it be nice if we all could at least have basic health care? I remember the commercial for Almond Joy. Paraphrasing it: "sometimes we work and are insured, sometimes we don't. Some have insurance, some have none." Regardless of what is called, capitalism, socialism or what you have, I think Jesus would like for all possible to be insured. Hec | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 536 Registered: 7-2004 |
I agree that there all all kinds of different scenarios. I have a friend in my church who worked very hard for many years. She lost an arm in an accident as a teenager. Now she is older, and has had a stroke and the cruel thing is, the stroke was on the other side of the body. So she has a limp, helpless arm and an arm that is cut off below her elbow. She can walk, but needs help eating, dressing, getting ready for church, etc. She is right in the middle of not qualifying for Medicaid because she worked hard all of her life and gets a small amount for social security. When I met her she had no one to even help her and the church stepped in and provided till she was able to get her daughter down to help. We would go and bathe her and get her dressed, and put on her makeup. She sings in the choir! It is so sad that she went without proper care for a while. So I agree that the system is not without flaws. | ||
| Scarred4life Registered user Username: Scarred4life Post Number: 48 Registered: 1-2009 |
Wouldn't denying someone who cannot afford Healthcare be a denial of "Love your neighbour as yourself". Every citizen of every country should be entitled to decent health care free, not on how much money you earn. How much tax money does the government waste on trivial things, good health care should be number 1 before anything else. I lived in the United Kingdom for 8 years and the NHS isn't anywhere near as bad as the USA is making it out to be. It has it's problems but try telling a family with two kids on a low income job that they cannot have medical treatment for there kids because they do not have the money. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1794 Registered: 4-2000 |
Truly, one doesn't have to be a "communist" to need healthcare. My wife and I are key witnesses to that fact. By the way, we are registered Republicans--the compassionate wing. It has been nearly a century since President Wilson first proposed national healthcare. The old adage that "health is wealth" still holds true today. America is only as strong as its family units. Our SDA friends, in the United States, are rightly worried that a national health service would result in their losing all their denominational hospitals like they have in some other countries (i.e., Canada, etc.). SDA hospital administrators would no longer be compensated with one-million-dollar annual salaries. What a dramatic change that would be by itself! Now millions of Americans want to get rich off the poor and needy every day (notably insurance companies, medical bill collectors, attorneys, pharmaceutical firms, medical suppliers, administrators, etc.). This is like David and Goliath all over again. Dennis Fischer |
