| Author | Message | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1201 Registered: 11-2007  |
Yesterday Mike Gendron, a former Catholic of nearly 40 years turned Evangelical evangelist, was invited to speak at our church. During the first hour, he began by saying how it's becoming more difficult for him to explain the differences between Catholicism and evangelicals because the lines are between them are becoming increasingly blurry in many people's minds. So he went on to demonstrate in great detail the contrast between the two - showing that they do in fact have a different gospel, different Jesus (one who does not completely atone for them), different view of sin, different path to eternity,, etc.. etc.. My husband and I were floored at the parallels - I knew they were there, but did not expect them to be so deep to our own past experience. I know we have lost some Catholic friends here on the forum and I am sorry for that, but I cannot reconcile that system of belief with the Bible anymore than I can Adventism. The speaker was very kind and loving, and urged a loving response to Catholics. He said to ask them questions instead of beating them over the head. ha. I can so relate to the contrast in those methods. =) His burden to reach Catholics for Christ and to give THEM an assurance of their salvation was so resonating with us too. He told a story to one man that he was like a person hanging on to some monkey bars, swinging over the fires of hell. The bars represent all the trappings of religion and institution that we put our trust in to save us. He told the man "these things can't save you.. but if you let go, Jesus is there waiting to catch you and only He can truly save you." He said the man broke down and began to sob. He trusted Jesus. If we don't let go, we can't trust Him. The sad thing with Adventism is they think the monkey bars ARE Jesus. Anyway, just had to share that. He and Dale could do programs together and nearly use one another's outlines! ha. Sondra | ||
| Jennyclarinet Registered user Username: Jennyclarinet Post Number: 42 Registered: 10-2007  |
I often think about the parallels between Catholicism and Adventism. Sadly, I know many Catholics and many SDA's who love Jesus with all their being, yet they feel they must cling to those "monkey bars" that their church tells them to cling to. That's a good illustration because it really makes you see that they are afraid to let go of their doctrine, which means they don't really trust Jesus, which means they don't really have faith. Faith is believing in what cannot be seen, and Catholics and SDA's cling to their rosaries, priests, popes, Sabbath, and food laws. If these things can save us, then why did Jesus die on the cross? Jenny | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 835 Registered: 10-2008 |
Sondra, I can't thank you enough for posting this. Today, I had lunch with a woman who grew up Catholic and now is a Christian. It was a God-appointment. In a most unusual way. And I needed a God-appointment today. I went to something today and this former Catholic, now Christian was there. I knew who she was - though we had never fully met. She is a BSF (Bible Study Fellowship) discussion leader. The BSF TEACHING leader who God used to teach me the true gospel is friends with this discussion leader. Not too long ago the Teaching Leader called me (I was not doing well) and shared with me that this discussion leader and her had been praying for me. So, ... I knew who this woman was though we had never met. Today, at this meeting I met this discussion leader who had been praying for me. After the official meeting we had gone to was over, we talked some more and she invited me to lunch. She shared with me something amazing. She keeps a little book in her purse and she writes down when she hears God speak to her. She was so cute ... she said, "Do you believe God talks to you in your head?" I said, "Yes." Then she shared how she had written down in her book how God had "spoken to her in her head" that I would be in her group in BSF this fall. Well, I'm not in her group ... but I am in her group. I'm in BSF leadership with her. At lunch she shared that she had been raised Catholic and accepted Jesus in college. You are SO right Sondra in the similarities. She seemed to understand in very uncanny ways what it was like to have been an Adventist. The thing that Catholics do not have though is a prophet. Unless, you might consider the pope as something similar to a prophetess. One of my pastor's wife was also raised Catholic. He told me once that his wife had shared that the only time a Catholic was assured of their salvation was if they had gone to confession and as they were leaving confession - they would be killed by a car. Wow, I never realized that others could have such a lack of assurance over their salvation like an Adventist could. I really see a broader scope of things than I ever have before. Your post was just interesting in light of my experience today. Catholics were so disparaged in Adventism. Yet, Catholics, Adventists, Buddhists, Muslims, ... all need the foundation of the true gospel which is faith in Christ alone. Anyways, ... Thanks, Sondra, Keri | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1203 Registered: 11-2007 |
God's timing once again Keri!! =) I think the pope and egw could definitely correlate to each other - neither can be questioned or argued with out in the open. He kept bringing out the verses that say "narrow was the way that leads to life and we have to "strive" to enter through the narrow gate". He said the word strive did not mean working for our salvation, but having to fight through the false teachers to really want and seek after the truth. That definitely struck a chord with me too. He has a newsletter called... get this.. "Proclaiming the Gospel." ha. Also very similar to our Proclamation. If anyone wants to check out his resources, he has some EXCELLENT ones. http://pro-gospel.org/x2/ At the book table I picked up an apologetics book (written by someone else) with an alphabetical list of cults and heresies. I flipped to sda - and sure enough "not a cult" citing their dialogue with Walter Martin! (groaning..) While he is trying to convince Christians that Catholicism creates an obstacle opposed to the true Christ, we still also have to fight for that truth to be known about Adventism. Sondra | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5525 Registered: 9-2006  |
The guy seems to be a gutsy preacher, he tackled the doctrine of election versus the doctrine of free will. Not that I want to start that up here.  Just remarking on the gutsyness of putting it on his website. The people that I have known to come out of Catholicism seemed to be people of great faith. One guy I knew was sort of weird, born and raised a Catholic, but he was a firebrand for Jesus. I haven't seen the guy in more than thirty years and sometime I wonder about those people I knew, how their live went, it would be nice to see them all again. River (Message edited by river on September 14, 2009) | ||
| Psalm107v2 Registered user Username: Psalm107v2 Post Number: 425 Registered: 10-2008  |
Thanks for the link Sondra. I was vehemently anti-Catholic when I was SDA to the point that my Catholic friends/acquaintances thought I hated them. Ironically I was dating a Catholic woman when I heard the gospel through a bunch of God ordained circumstances. Shortly after I left the SDA church she left teh Catholic church and 3 of her siblings and their spouses left the Catholic. The gospel is so powerful and God knows just how to reach us at the right time and in the right way. I just read his article about the 3 common errors of false teachers. When I think of all the isms that article rings so true. Sometimes I can't help but smile when I think how the devil is smart enough to create a lot of false religions that look like the real thing but his trap fails so often because when God is ready He will shake a person out of their "ism" and into His the purity of His holy word. Before I left AZ (I still list AZ as home on Facebook since to me it is still home) I worshipped with a group of ex-mormons. Jim and Judy Robertson remind me of the Tinkers so much as they are a couple on fire for God, following Him in faith, publishing the truth to reach the lost (they have a newsletter as well as website here's the link http://www.concernedchristians.com/) and have a heart to reach the hurting people trying to survive in the aftermath of leaving a false system and reaching Christ. Thank God He counters the counterfeit Enoch | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5527 Registered: 9-2006 |
One place on the website they called ex-mormans 'survivors' I guess it might be a good word. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10400 Registered: 12-2003  |
Jenny, this sentence reminds me of something Jon Rittenhouse said in his presentation at the last FAF weekend. He said that he meets a lot of people in his Campus Crusade work who really love God, but they don't know Jesus—and those people are lost. I'm not saying that all Adventists and Catholics don't know Jesus—but I am saying that a great many of them don't. They are very devout and love God and want to serve Him, whatever that means, but they don't know Jesus and are not born again. Being born again is the only way to enter the kingdom of heave (John 3:3-5). People have to place their trust in Jesus for salvation and as their Lord; they have to trust Him with their whole lives. Sincerity is not what makes a Christian. I only say this because people are often confused by Adventists (and Catholics and others) because they say words that sound like they know Jesus--but it's often only words. When they don't really know Jesus and aren't trusting Him for salvation, they aren't born again. We can't always tell who is and who isn't saved. But we have to know that if they love their doctrine or tradition more than following Jesus, we have to treat them as people who need the gospel, not as people who are brothers or sisters in Jesus. Colleen | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1207 Registered: 11-2007 |
It's so easy to mistake zeal for faith. They are not the same. Sondra | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 551 Registered: 3-2009 |
This confuses me. They love God, but don't know Jesus. Isn't Jesus God? If they love him, don't they know him? hec | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1222 Registered: 11-2007 |
Jesus is the Way the Truth, the Life - the Door, the Narrow Gate... the only Way to the Father. If they don't know Jesus, they don't know God. They love an idea of who they think God is. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2188 Registered: 8-2004  |
Very true Sondra. The sad thing is that their 'idea of who they think God is' too often has the effect of blinding them to the God Who IS. Thankfully God does not let up on even the ones who think they have found complacency. He breaks through all sorts of facades . . . though it seems to me it's harder for those who are 'close but not quite' to the right idea than it is for those who know they are fare away. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1055 Registered: 7-2007 |
This is what Handmaiden has been trying to tell us too. The Lord has used her to bring a whole bunch of Seventh-day Adventists (including myself) out of that cult and into Christianity! Handmaiden, you began to write your testimony on the forum a long time ago. Could you PLEASE write down the story of how you got saved, here?? How about the rest of you? Wouldn't you also like her to write it? | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 559 Registered: 7-2004 |
Yes!! | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 109 Registered: 5-2009 |
Yes, please! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7491 Registered: 3-2004  |
I always like to read how God has brings people out of adventism. Handmaiden, please put it on the forum where everyone can read it. Diana L | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1831 Registered: 5-2007  |
Yes Handmaiden, What you shared about Jesus in your life when we were at Roseburg during our extended P.S. The motel 'breakfast lady' kept feeding us because she wanted to hear more. Nobody wanted to leave. Fearless Phil | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 341 Registered: 12-2007 |
Yes !!! Please do tell us your story . Skeeter | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10417 Registered: 12-2003 |
Please do, Handmaiden! Hec, what he means is that there are people who are devoted to their idea of God. They want to honor Him, but they don't really know Jesus. I think I could have put myself into this category for a long time. I didn't understand that Jesus was Sovereign, equal in every sense with God, of the same substance, possessed of the identical attributes...but I was very "spiritual". Meeting Jesus personally, though, after discovering that I was completely unable to make right decisions no matter how earnestly I tried and prayed--but finally repenting of my depraved inability to "be good" and coming to know that Jesus totally finished my salvation in His death and resurrection--these things revealed Jesus to me. There are a lot of people who are drawn to God and are very "spiritual". But these people have not necessarily repented before the Lord Jesus for their helpless sinfulness and accepted His death on their behalf. Even though these people are devoted to "God", they don't know Jesus. Thus, they are not born again. That's what Jon Rittenhouse was talking about. Colleen | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 557 Registered: 3-2009 |
Thanks, Colleen. Hec | ||
| Handmaiden Registered user Username: Handmaiden Post Number: 144 Registered: 7-2008 |
My heart has been heavy to bring this truth to you dear ones. i see so many go from one cult to another and i wanted to warn you of the pit of catholicism. i see so many dear catholics leave and become adventists and adventists leave and become catholics!!!! Walter Martin did not name the catholic church as a cult either. So many are attracted to a form of Godliness but there is no substance in either of these religions because the Substance is Jesus Christ and neither the catholic religion nor the adventist religion have the genuine Biblical Jesus. Yes, i loved God with all my heart as a catholic ....but the God i loved in the catholic religon, was not the God, Who LOVED me, Who sent His Son to save ME from sin, death and hell. The catholic jesus like the adventist jesus is weak and more of a victim himself than the SAVIOR of the WORLD. The catholic jesus is a perpetual sacrifice, who is sacrificed over and over and over and over again at each and every catholic mass. catholicism is a "works" religion and my only hope was to do the best i could, go to confession = confess my sins to a priest, perform the assigned penance and even then when i died i would have to spend some time in the purifying fires of purgatory before i would be allowed to enter into heaven. OH, yes when i heard the true Gospel, how the true Jesus, almighty God humbled Himself and took on human flesh and willingly laid down His life in my place and shed His blood for my sin and broke the power of death and COMPLETELY SAVED ME from the fires of hell ...no purgatory and He did it all because HE LOVES ME. Yes, that was GOOD NEWS to me. Loving this God and following His ways became a great JOY to me. i was set free from the burden of worry, guilt, shame, rules of holy living, praying the rosary, attending mass everrrrrry week, on pain of mortal sin = die and go straight to hell....i was set free from the burden, i had no idea was a burden because i had never been free of it before. i was used to the heavy chain catholicism haD placed on me and did not realize how burdened i was until i was set free in Christ. Yes, i can so relate to all of you my chain was the same as yours in adventism only slightly differant links. Dale Ratslaff and Mike Genderon have both been raised up in this hour and are doing an incredible job of lovingly presenting the TRUTH that sets the CAPTIVES FREEEEEEE because of the FINISHED WORK of the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY JESUS the CHRIST, Who once and for all eternity broke the power of sin, death hell and false religion and offers life and life abundantly to all who will come. Won't you all shout Halleujah with me. Praise the wonderful Name of Jesus the Name above alllll names, the only Name by which we might be SAVED the Name that every knee will bow to and every tongue will confess that JESUS IS LORD. Have you put your trust in HIM today or are you still trusting in your ability to hang onto the monkey bars. If you are not in His hands tremble because hell is real and so is heaven. There is nothing you have to do to go to hell. To enter heaven your rigteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees...you must be as good as God is. There is only one way for that to happen and that is letting Jesus take your filthy robe of sin and self righteousness and humble yourself at the foot of cross and take from His nail scarred hands the pure robe of His righteousness, His right keeping of the law. Put on your wedding garments and this day enter into eternity with the GOD WHO LOVES YOU. He that hath an ear let him hear TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No man is promised the next second or minute, let alone the next day. Are you ready??? Are you in Christ Jesus?? i hope and pray that allll who read this will not delay but come to Jesus now. much love and prayers for all of you dear ones much love and gratitude to the GOD OF MY SALVATION. handmaiden | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1236 Registered: 11-2007 |
ditto that Handmaiden!!!! times a million! =) Yesterday I got an audio CD of Gendron's first hour presentation of the distinctions between evangelical and Catholic Christianity. It's PACKED with information.. you won't be able to write notes fast enough really. If I get permission to upload, I will share the link here. It is SO MUCH THE SAME... really revealing of what Adventsim is too - when you put them up side by side comparison Handmaiden.. yes there is so much danger of being set free just to fall into some other trap. Let Jesus be enough!!!! sondra |
