| Author | Message | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1216 Registered: 11-2007  |
I think this has been covered alot.. but you just never know who is lurking today. =) Such a huge contradiction to scripture here that I had to post it. Found this on a blog written by a lay-pastor we used to know and found this interesting post.. with a reply that someone in Korea was comforted that their Buddhist grandmother was saved because she was nice. The Desire of Ages p. 638
My response: Mar 10:18 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." 1Pe 1:23 - 25 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; "All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls, but the word of the Lord remains forever." And this word is the good news that was preached to you. Rom 10:13-15 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" Deu 32:17 They sacrificed to demons that were no gods, to gods they had never known, to new gods that had come recently, whom your fathers had never dreaded. 1Co 10:20 No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons. And I asked for scriptural evidence for the above theory. Our sda neighbors were saying the same thing recently. I told them I've struggled with this issue and wanted to believe it, but found it impossible to support from scripture. Sondra p.s. The stories of all lost people, especially those in demon worship, when they are reconciled to God through faith in Christ are dramatic. There is no half-way there. You are in Christ, or you're not. Raises many questions which God did not choose to answer at this time. That's why He gets to be God. =) | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 588 Registered: 8-2008 |
She says that people are saved by keeping the Law. It is unfortunate that people take Paul out of context: Paul's point wasn't that pagans who did not believe in God would be saved because they did the right things, but that Gentiles who were born again (circumsized in the heart by the Spirit) would be saved without the written Law, but Jews who had the Law and were not born again, could not be saved simply by trying to keep the Law. Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles. He knew the only Gentiles who truly have the underlying law of God--love--written on their hearts were those who were born again. He is criticizing Jews for judging such born again Gentile believers. He is not saying the Gentiles could be saved by keeping the Law in some fashion. | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 553 Registered: 7-2004 |
Could it possibly be taken from this verse in Romans 1? __________________________________________________18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse" _______________________________________________ However, Paul does not say that ignorant kindness and good deeds is what would save you. He is saying that no one has excuse if they see God's invisible attributes they will see His eternal power and the GODHEAD. I find that amazing. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10405 Registered: 12-2003  |
I've wrestled with these questions also. The thing that has helped me resolve them is the fact that the Lord Jesus personally reveals Himself to people. The amazing stories of the Muslims who are seeing visions or dreams of Jesus when they are agonizing to know the truth convinces me that the foundation of the texts in Romans 1 is the faithfulness and self-revelation of God to individuals. Those who have suppressed the knowledge of God with their wickedness are without excuse because they have refused to recognize God's power. The Gentiles in Romans 2 who do instinctively the things of the law are those who are open to the self-revelation of God. As an Adventist I never factored into the equation the personal revelation God gives to individuals. I somehow thought they had either to hear "the truth" or live their own religion seriously, taking seriously the evidence of nature. It never dawned on me that God personally reveals Himself to those who are not suppressing the truth by their wickedness. Again, the realization that it's not all about us but it's actually all about God's sovereign power to reveal Himself and to draw us has changed my paradigm! Colleen | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 842 Registered: 10-2008 |
The He in this passage is the Holy Spirit. The sin in this passage is the sin of unbelief. This morning I read through nearly the whole book of John. There was one passage that stood out and it is the only passage I underlined this morning. I underlined it and then I actually wrote down the reference on a Bible Study question page I was working on. It felt very profound to me. Here is the passage:
In John 15:22 the I is Jesus. The they and them is the world. According to the context of the passage. So John 15:22 could read, "If Jesus had not come and spoken to the world, the world would not have sin, but now the world has no excuse for their sin. Sin in these two chapters of John relates to the sin of unbelief in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ came to this world and He is now revealed through His Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit convicts "the world" (everyone) concerning sin - specifically sin against believing in Jesus. We are without excuse. Others are without excuse. The Holy Spirit will reveal Jesus - and in the most unlikely of ways. Uh, hum, through our imperfect words, through dreams to Muslims, through ... The Holy Spirit is not limited - only we in our finite minds try to limit what we think He can do. EGW is totally unbiblical in her writing when she says people who haven't heard, can be saved with the "light they are given" ... Her statement denies the Holy Spirit and the clear teaching of scripture ... Do you know what scripture calls "works"?
Our "work" in John 6 is to believe. Boy, did I have it wrong as an Adventist. Clearly, we have no excuse to rebel and not believe in the scripturally revealed Jesus Christ. Ellen White is wrong and what she says denies the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit reveals Christ. Ellen White has sinned against the Holy Spirit. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3017 Registered: 10-2004  |
Bb, Actually, Paul says that they are without excuse (meaning they are condemned by their sin like all the rest of us), not that they are (or can be) saved. In order to be saved, they must trust in Jesus Christ. "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12 NASB.) Jesus assures us: "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out." (John 6:37 NASB.) "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:44 NASB.) And God is able to reveal Himself to whomever He chooses, no matter where or who they are. Also, going back to Romans 1, notice that it says they see "His...Godhead" (not "the Godhead"). The Greek word simply means "divine nature" ("His eternal power and divine nature") and is thus translated in most modern translations. I'm mentioning this distinction because Adventists change it to "the...Godhead" in that verse, and claim that it is talking about their heretical "Godhead" teaching. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on September 16, 2009) | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5533 Registered: 9-2006  |
Jere, I really like this scripture: John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. We pray for our friends, loved ones, children, but are we praying the prayer of faith. I have two sons that are not in and it is awfully hard for me to have faith and that praying without faith causes unrest in my soul for them. I have mention it before that I had been praying for one of my sons for years, he was wild and I mean wild. I was praying for him one day as I drove down the street and I cried out in desperation, "Oh Lord, will I ever live to see that boy save?" The Holy Spirit immediately spoke to me and said, "Have faith in God." Seven years later that wild kid was saved to the uttermost. Its not that I like the scripture above others or that I think it favors my request, I guess it just gives me hope and enables me to have faith in God for my requests, God is such a good God. River |
