| Author | Message | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 428 Registered: 3-2009 |
Hello everyone, I've been keeping up with Dwight Nelson's sermon series this fall on the IJ doctrine. Here is the audio library of the series: http://www.pmchurch.tv/article.php?id=28 Click on the audio of the one called, The Temple on Yom Kippur. Fast-forward to around the 20 min. mark and listen to Dwight quote Hebrews 9:26. Then listen to his commentary that directly contradicts and twists it. When I heard it, my heart almost stopped. Why am I so shocked?? I don't know... Can't believe how blatant his error was. Think about the influence he has over all the AU students... FYI: Also, near the end of his sermon called "The Cleansing", he talks about "certain people" who are attacking the IJ doctrine. Listen to his hypothesis regarding why anyone would think to do such a thing. | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 287 Registered: 1-2007  |
I could not stomache listening to that garbage anymore. It just makes me angry. Paul | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1246 Registered: 11-2007  |
Love how he sets up the sermon with an orthodox Jewish perspective... very fitting. Interesting.. all those ceremonial laws were nailed to the cross, but we have to come back and demonstrate that we are living in this long drawn-out Day of Atonement. If it's not all fulfilled at the Cross as they claim, why not be observing all of it?? "sins of the first (old) covenant is code language for sins of all human history before Calvary"... uh... wrong. Jesus cleansing is for past sin, present sin, and from future judgment (i.e. by having removed all sin from your life experience by the time the day of judgment comes). He says we don't have future sin, just present and past sin, so the blood of Jesus can't cleanse us from future sin(forgetting that God exists outside of time??) but only from future judgment by purifying our lives. Heb 9:26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin (Greek.. cancellation) by the sacrifice of himself. He says.. "Calvary didn't do away with sin." and the evidence that what the text plainly says can't be true.. is that we still sin. No offering as to what he thinks it DOES mean.. just blatantly rejecting what it says... not to mention all of chapter 10 that follows.. That's why it's called FAITH. We believe what God has promised - complete and total forgiveness in spite of what we see in ourselves.. our present reality does not affect our future hope. Praise God! Clear demonstration of the confusion between our position in Christ, and our sanctification.. Slick talkin there... very manipulative and very condescending... yuck. OH he says.. "Ladies and gentlemen, you can't get good news any better than that.." Well, yeah you can. You can believe what it says. I heard Folkenberg read the verses in Hebrews about the work being finished... past tense, signed, sealed, delivered... and turn around in the next breath and say something like....well this is speaking as if it has already taken place, but really it's talking about the future from the writer's perspective..... I never took hermeneutics... how exactly do they teach that course at Andrews??? | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 575 Registered: 3-2009 |
I forced myself to hear that sermon. I won't do it again. It's the same BS (please forgive my language) all over. Just disguise in Jewish history. "We don't have future sins." I guess we are all very old. As a matter of fact at least around 2,000 years old. If we don't have future sins then we had to commit our past and present sins by the cross event since from that perspective all our sins are future. Hec | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 429 Registered: 3-2009 |
Sondra, it's fascinating that he quoted the Bible and then interpreted it exactly opposite of what it actually said. And like you said, he offered no alternatives. In the next breath, he exclaims that this is the best news ever and how wonderful it is that Jesus saves. Hey, I have to tell you what he says at the end of "The Cleansing Sermon"--my paraphrase here.... "There is a movement 'out there' to invalidate this very crucial sanctuary doctrine. Could it be that they are doing this because Jesus' cleansing is not good news for them? Could it be that they have a place in their heart with hidden sin that they don't want Jesus to completely cleanse?" Sorry to make you sick  Here's the thing. As I was leaving Adventism, I had liberal/progressive SDAs tell me that the IJ doctrine is never preached from the pulpit anymore and folks are moving away from EGW. *WHATEVER* I can't believe the manipulation and trouble I endured trying to get out of Adventism--from conservatives and liberals alike. Every time I listen another sermon in Dwight's series, I get frustrated, but I praise Jesus that He called my husband and me out. It's so confirming and validating, and makes everything I went through worth it! | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 119 Registered: 12-2003 |
I only listened to a small part of this sermon - around the 20 minute mark - as I couldn't stomach any more than that. But I was struck by how rapidly he read through the scripture that he used. I could hardly follow along, it seemed like he just wanted to hurry and get the verses over with and then get on with his interpretation. As you said 8th day, very slick, manipulative and condescending. Praise God for opening my eyes and taking me away from all this. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5566 Registered: 9-2006  |
You really funny Seekinglight. It really amuses me how you invite everyone on the forum for a listen. It reminds me of a Jeff Foxworthy comic skit where the comedian describes two men trying to out do one another with stuff that smells bad. The guy sniffs his old sweaty shoes thats been in the closet for six months and says 'eeeewwuuuu, Come over here and smell this Jim! The guy goes over and smells it! One thing about this forum is that there is no end to entertainment. You guys go ahead and sniff, don't let me interrupt you.  River | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 120 Registered: 12-2003 |
Every now and then it's good to go back and sniff River, it reminds us - very vividly - of what we're NOT missing! And just a tiny sniff will do it. The error that was once foggily accepted is SO blatant now. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5567 Registered: 9-2006 |
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| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 1844 Registered: 5-2007  |
Gee, Jan has been away from the home for over a week. All I have to do to find a bad smell is open the frig. Wow, I need Jan home! I think I don't need to go looking for any more 'smells'.  Well, I had better stop writing and get to work. Fearless Phil | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5568 Registered: 9-2006 |
I didn't know Jan was gone, did she smell your feet and take off for safer territory Phil? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5569 Registered: 9-2006 |
Why did the mouse cross the road to get to the garbage dump? To get to the oder side. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 7542 Registered: 3-2004  |
I used to get A......Facts on TV with Doug Batchelor. I would turn to it momentarily and could not watch more then that, just to remind myself of what I was "missing". I do not do that anymore. I know what I have and it is much more then what I was "missing". I have Jesus Christ now and nothing is better then Him. He is so awesome. Diana L | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 288 Registered: 1-2007 |
OK I some how found the stomache to listen at the 20 minute mark. Pardon my language but what a Jackass. First yes we still sin, God didn't remove sin, he removed sins power over us. And what was sin's power? Romans 6:11 states to consider ourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Than in verse 12 it says not to let sin reign in our mortal bodies so that we don't obey it's desires., than the clincher in verse 14 For sin will not rule over you, because you are not under the law but under grace. If only SDA's knew they were still under sin's control by living under the law, for sin uses the law Romans 7:7-12 and the power of sin is the law 1 Corinthians 15:56 but we gain victory through Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:57. If he would continue on in Hebrew 9 onto verse 28 he would see that Jesus did bear all our sins and the second appearing would not to bear sins, but to bring salvation TO THOSE THAT ARE WAITING, if we all didn't sin anymore than why are we waiting? He sure is twisting scripture because no where does it say that the cross did away with sin in the sense that we don't sin anymore. Just that sin no longer has power over us when we die to the law and live to God through Jesus. Seekinglight you have a strong stomache to be able to sit and listen through the whole sermon. Paul | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1252 Registered: 11-2007 |
The only reason I go back to sniff is to make commentary for those out there in the world who still think it smells GOOD!! haha. That's it. It's not easy.. but it's my duty.. =) The last time I posted a link to my blog on here.. I'm amazed at how much it gets picked up.. so many more people reading than we realize.. and exploring. Phil... Get some Arm & Hammer and hope Jan is home soon! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5570 Registered: 9-2006 |
Sondra, Could you post a link to your blog for me? Please, please? | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1254 Registered: 11-2007 |
since you said please.. http://8thday4life.wordpress.com/ at your own risk.. ha. | ||
| Foofighter Registered user Username: Foofighter Post Number: 78 Registered: 7-2005 |
We started getting the Hope channel about a month or so ago. It is pretty much the same topics, Sabbath, Daniel and Revelation, health...you know, no Jesus, really. But, anyway, the sermons from PMC are televised, and I think Dwight Nelson is just awful!!!! He so dramatic, and moves all over the place, kind of like a carnival barker or snake oil salesman. Of course, the message is the main abomination. I've been watching the series on the Temple. It is just terrible. He (in my opinion) comes across as thinking he is pretty hot stuff, and yes, as someone said, condescending and IMO obnoxious. He also, on 2 of the "sermons", referred to people who came to their area, and spoke against the heavenly sanctuary doctrine. He pretty much equated Dale (although,of course, not mentioning him by name) to the devil, who is the antagonist. He actually said that "an antagonist, against the Bible teaching of God's sanctuary, showed up this summer, not far from this campus... attempting to draw a crowd...". Anyway you get the picture. Someone he knows went to the meetings (Dwight was on sabbatical), and "described the ridicule and laughter that was heaped on the Bible teaching of the temple in heaven...". What a terrible thing Adventists have done so many times, led by Ellen, to smear and accuse (falsely) anyone who dares to speak against their doctrines. All this about Dale, is around 30 minutes into the sermon, and continues until about 33 minutes into the sermon. He also talks about this on the next sermon in the series, but I don't remember what he said exactly. I think I am going to write a letter to him, although I'm sure it won't do any good, but I'll feel better! I'm just so sick of these unbiblical, sneaky teachings, and the pastors who spew this nonsense. It is almost impossible for me to believe that they are so Biblically ignorant...so I can only conclude, perhaps wrongly, that it is intentional. And I believe that we need to keep this kind of thing front and center, so people can at least look at this teaching, and maybe start, or continue, on a path of discovering the real Biblical teachings. | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 433 Registered: 3-2009 |
Wow, Foofighter, that is interesting. I wonder if Dale's meetings are what spurred Dwight to create the series on this particular topic. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5571 Registered: 9-2006 |
I guess I better straighten up and fly right, lest I get Seekinglight after me, she probably wonders how to take me by this time. Foo, I doubt if a letter would have much effect on this guy, accept to make you feel better maybe. But your right, to ignore this kind of thing probably isn't the thing to do. He needs to be held accountable. You know it would be terrible to finally come to the point where you watch others enter and yourself be left out and the gates barred against your beating fists forever. What utter despair might a man feel? River |
