| Author | Message | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 314 Registered: 1-2007  |
I laugh at the quote from SDA'stating "God gave man the Sabbath for physical rest, a day to rest from our labors and worship God" The thought sounds nice when you think about it, but the Sabbath has nothing to do with physical rest, when one wishes to understand the spiritual meaning of the Sabbath. God created in His creatures, Man as well with a mechanism for physical rest, it is sleep. Our bodies rest when we sleep. I surely feel refreshed after a good 6-8 hours of sleep and I'm ready for another day of labor. As far as worship is concerned Jesus stated in John 4:21-24 that God is spirit and we must worship God in spirit and in truth. Jesus stated that He is the truth and the way in John 14:6. And in John 14:15-17 Jesus stated "If you love Me you will keep My commandments, and I will ask the Father and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever. He is the Spirit of truth. We can easily see from scripture to worship God one must believe in Jesus active Faith, and they will receive the Spirit. Jesus is how we worship the Father, not the weekly Sabbath. This is why Paul was able to say that the Sabbath was a shadow and christ is the substance Col 2:16-17 and this fits in context with what Heb 3 and 4 say. Paul | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10616 Registered: 12-2003  |
Great post, Paul. You're absolutely right; the Sabbath command was never about giving the Israelites physical rest. It was always about teaching them to trust God. They couldn't work, even if the crops and flocks were in need of immediate attention...but they had to trust that God would bless them, and NO ONE, neither themselves nor any other nation, would be able to say that Israel prospered because of their hard work and industry. Everyone would know they succeeded because of their God. Period. THAT was what the Sabbath was about! Trusting God to work on their behalf. Resting in His finished work. Colleen | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 597 Registered: 7-2004 |
I think on CARM there is a thread about whether Jesus was "sda" or "adventist", and in studying John 5 for BSF (Bible Study Fellowship) this week I was struck by John 5:17... *********************************************** 16So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. 17Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." ************************************************** So...if he were a seventh-day adventist adherent, He possibly could have responded to the Jews by saying "You Jews have added your own rules to the Ten Commandments, and I do not call picking up your mat "breaking the Sabbath", so you are wrong. No! He said His Father was always working, and that He too, was working! So not only did He admit to breaking the Sabbath, He said His Father did too, as the 4th commandment specifically refers to no one on your property doing any work. So I'm thinking when he finished creation and "rested" it was supposed to be eternal rest, but when sin entered it became work for God to enact the plan of salvation in sending His Son to die. The Jews were supposed to have this weekly ritual to remind them of the rest that was lost and that they could look forward to when Jesus, their Redeemer came to rescue them and give them the REST back! I may be off track, but it makes sense to me. | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 464 Registered: 3-2009 |
I'm in BSF also, and I noticed that same text. You know, Jesus not only was breaking the Sabbath Himself, but He asked the crippled man by the pool to break it also by picking up his mat. Our BSF leader pointed out--as does EGW--that the Jewish leaders made up that rule about not carrying anything. She made it sound like Jesus wasn't asking the man to actually break the Sabbath but rather was just more "lax" on the rules than the Pharisees were. Sounds familiar, right?? I didin't like her interpretation, but I'm not going to nit-pick. It's just my SDA baggage *sigh* | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 316 Registered: 1-2007 |
There were laws which forbid the Jews to touch a dead person, or a person with leprosy or unclean skin disease, Or if a woman had her monthly menstril (did I spell that right?) she was unclean and no one was to touch her or anything she touched this was the law. Yet Jesus touched the young girl who was dead and brought her back to life. Jesus touched a man with leprosy and he was healed. The woman who suffered the unending bleeding touched the tassel of Jesus as was healed. Clearly Jesus would have been called a law breaker, and they who touched him were breaking the law as well, yet Jesus healed them and said your sins are forgiven. I will look for the texts and paste them if anyone is interested, but I'm in the middle of a hot debate with a former SDA who has turned to keeping all the Festivals as well as the Sabbath. Paul | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 732 Registered: 3-2009 |
Paul, when was the last time you had your menstrual cycle? You don't even know how to spell it! LOL Hec | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 317 Registered: 1-2007 |
LOL I Know I'm a hot mess, I need to go touch Jesus' tassel. | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 734 Registered: 3-2009 |
Hey Paul, let me know when you're going to touch His tassel so I can go with you. Hec | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 319 Registered: 1-2007 |
Will do... Paul | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 598 Registered: 7-2004 |
But what struck me was that Jesus said "I am working" when He had the chance to tell them that they were just being legalistic. So He didn't just go against the pharisees, He actually said that He and His Father work all the time. This means that He was definitely NOT a seventh-day adventist Jesus. Paul that Kevin guy is horrible!! No brotherly love in his heart that I can see!! | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 320 Registered: 1-2007 |
Correct Bb Jesus was working, He was working to bring us into God's true rest. Yeah that Kevin guy was pretty harsh with words. I'm not going to let it bother me, that is typical of these law promoters, they claim to love God and keep His law out of love, but when it comes to discussing issues they can be pretty harsh. I have already heard it all from my BIL and MIL, certainly do not see Jesus reflected in that type of behavior. My only hope is they will be enlightened with the true Gospel and feel what it is really like to be full of God's law of Love. Paul | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10623 Registered: 12-2003 |
Exactly, Bb. And Seekinglight, your discomfort was with cause. In Sabbath in Christ, Dale Ratzlaff explicates this passage. On pp. 153-155 he explains it. He says that the Old Covenant record tells us that a man was stoned for gathering sticks on Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36), and later Scriptural interpretations of the law forbade carrying a load on the Sabbath (Jer. 17:27). In other words, it was not a rabbinic rule. Jesus asked the man to carry his years'-old heavy bedroll. This was a violation of OT Sabbath law. He not only asserted that He and His Father were working, but He commanded the man to break the Sabbath law. Most Christians will say Jesus didn't really break the Sabbath...because most Christians see the Decalogue as a unit of moral laws. But this oversight comes from their never having had to work out the "Sabbath issue" minutely. If, however, we understand the Sabbath to be the shadow of Jesus which points to God's finished work on man's behalf, clearly Jesus did break it--but He also fulfilled it. Jesus systematically broke the ritual laws. He touched dead people and lepers, and He didn't go do ritual cleansing afterward. He also broke the Sabbath, bringing healing and forgiveness to people and ushering them into His own work on their behalf, giving them spiritual rest during the hours of the Sabbath. He consistently presented Himself as the Messiah, the One whom the OT foretold would do these miracles. He fulfilled the Sabbath in the lives of those whom He healed on that day. Colleen | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 321 Registered: 1-2007 |
Colleen thanks for that verse in Jer 17:27 than needs to go in my Sabbath battle utility belt. I have read Sabbath in Christ a few years ago and gave the book to a friend to read, he still has not returned it. I think I will buy me another copy, it's an excellent book. Paul | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 466 Registered: 3-2009 |
Thank you Colleen for validating my discomfort. We have our work cut out for us in gently educating Christians on these matters as God opens the doors. I'm finding very few Christians who are familiar enough with the Bible to even enter into this type of conversation. I had an informal interview for a teaching position at Covenant College in Lookout Mtn. Georgia a few weeks ago. (CC is Presbyterian, but they have students from many denominations). Anyway, they said that all they ask is that their faculty members be Christians and abide by the Westminster Confession. However, if I don't agree with certain things in the Westminster, they're asking that I write out my rationales. They mentioned that the one point most potential employees reject is having to refrain from recreational activities on Sunday. They said that there is current division on this matter and that generally the PCA (Presbyterian Church of America) leaves this up to the believer to follow their conscience. That was my opening!! I tried to explain how my SDA background shaped my thinking on this issue. By the end, I think they understood where I was coming from. | ||
| Psalm107v2 Registered user Username: Psalm107v2 Post Number: 481 Registered: 10-2008  |
Seekinglight, Great way to use coming from the cults to show a Biblical world view on a topic. It is so sad when "Sunday Keepers" think that Sunday is the new Sabbath. I don't care what day a person worships on if they miss that Jesus is our Sabbath rest they miss out on so much Enoch | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 322 Registered: 1-2007 |
OK I put together a quick study on God's Rest in reply to Ricky and Kevin on FB Here is the study, there may be typos, I'm bad at that, LOL. But I don't see how anyone can dispute these truths found in scripture. Would you agree that a command was not Moral, Jesus would not be guilty if He broke it according to the written law? Although it appears He is breaking it according to the written law He is in actually fulfilling a certain aspect of why this law was given. Most people evey both you Ricky and Kevin will agree that Jesus fulfilled ceremonial/ritual laws, such as the animal sacrifices right? Ok I do know that Jesus did not sin so whatever law He appeared to break according to the written law was indeed not sin because they were no moral laws. Below are a few comparisons of laws that Jesus clearly broke according to written law, although we know He is fulfilling a reality. Touching Lepers or people with skin diseases Mat 8:1 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him. Mat 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. Mat 8:3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and TOUCHED him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. Mat 8:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them. (Mark 1:40-45; Luke 5:12-16) Lev 13:9 When the plague of leprosy is in a man, then he shall be brought unto the priest; Lev 13:10 And the priest shall see him: and, behold, if the rising be white in the skin, and it have turned the hair white, and there be quick raw flesh in the rising; Lev 13:11 It is an old leprosy in the skin of his flesh, and the priest shall pronounce him unclean, and shall not shut him up: for he is unclean. Lev 13:45 And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean. Lev 13:46 All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be. (Lev 14 on the service for cleansing do to leprosy) It is clear here that what Jesus has done despite law was touch someone who was seperated do to the law. They would have been forced to live outside the city by themselves and have to say unclean unclean when near people. How sad and lonely they must have been. Imagine the healing power and they must have felt went Messiah touched them. The great feeling of someone touching them for the first time ever since they had the leprosy, what love and acceptance they must have felt. Notice that after Jesus healed this man he still told him to go and give the offer commanded by moses as a testimony, this required a sacrifice, surely we shouldn't take this as an ongoing command to continue sacrifices, it came from Jesus' mouth. Touching a Woman with a bodily discharge/blood Mat 9:20 And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment: Mat 9:21 For she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole. Mat 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour. (Mark 5:24-34; Luke 8:42-48) Lev 15:19 And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. Lev 15:20 And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. Lev 15:21 And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. Lev 15:22 And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. Lev 15:23 And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even. Lev 15:24 And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean. Lev 15:25 And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her separation; all the days of the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her separation: she shall be unclean. Lev 15:26 Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation. Lev 15:27 And whosoever toucheth those things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. Lev 15:28 But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean. Lev 15:29 And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. Lev 15:30 And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness. Lev 15:31 Thus shall ye separate the children of Israel from their uncleanness; that they die not in their uncleanness, when they defile my tabernacle that is among them. Lev 15:32 This is the law of him that hath an issue, and of him whose seed goeth from him, and is defiled therewith; Lev 15:33 And of her that is sick of her flowers, and of him that hath an issue, of the man, and of the woman, and of him that lieth with her that is unclean. Ok here we have the woman who was unclean, and she touched the tassel of Jesus, she was breaking the written law and causing Jesus to be unclearrn right? Yet Jesus said to her "Your Faith has made you well" It's amazing what is happening here, remember Jesus took on our infirmities... Touching a dead human corpse Mat 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live. Mat 9:19 And Jesus arose, and followed him, and so did his disciples. Mat 9:23 And when Jesus came into the ruler's house, and saw the minstrels and the people making a noise, Mat 9:24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. Mat 9:25 But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose. Mat 9:26 And the fame hereof went abroad into all that land. (Mark 5:21-23, 35-43; Luke 7:11-17; Luke 8:40-42, 49-56) Num 19:11 He that toucheth the dead body of any man shall be unclean seven days. Num 19:12 He shall purify himself with it on the third day, and on the seventh day he shall be clean: but if he purify not himself the third day, then the seventh day he shall not be clean. Num 19:13 Whosoever toucheth the dead body of any man that is dead, and purifieth not himself, defileth the tabernacle of the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from Israel: because the water of separation was not sprinkled upon him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness is yet upon him. Num 19:14 This is the law, when a man dieth in a tent: all that come into the tent, and all that is in the tent, shall be unclean seven days. Num 19:15 And every open vessel, which hath no covering bound upon it, is unclean. Num 19:16 And whosoever toucheth one that is slain with a sword in the open fields, or a dead body, or a bone of a man, or a grave, shall be unclean seven days. Num 19:17 And for an unclean person they shall take of the ashes of the burnt heifer of purification for sin, and running water shall be put thereto in a vessel: Num 19:18 And a clean person shall take hyssop, and dip it in the water, and sprinkle it upon the tent, and upon all the vessels, and upon the persons that were there, and upon him that touched a bone, or one slain, or one dead, or a grave: Num 19:19 And the clean person shall sprinkle upon the unclean on the third day, and on the seventh day: and on the seventh day he shall purify himself, and wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and shall be clean at even. Num 19:20 But the man that shall be unclean, and shall not purify himself, that soul shall be cut off from among the congregation, because he hath defiled the sanctuary of the LORD: the water of separation hath not been sprinkled upon him; he is unclean. Num 19:21 And it shall be a perpetual statute unto them, that he that sprinkleth the water of separation shall wash his clothes; and he that toucheth the water of separation shall be unclean until even. Num 19:22 And whatsoever the unclean person toucheth shall be unclean; and the soul that toucheth it shall be unclean until even. Here we see that Jesus touched the dead girl and son, despite the written law. We know He did not need to touch to raise them from the dead, just as with Lazerus He spoke and he was resurrected. Same for healing, Jesus spoke to the paralyzed man and He got up. Jesus is intentionly touching here in direct contradiction to the written law. No one would argue that Jesus is sinning. Although He is taking on our infirmities. These are just but a few examples of Jesus according to written law, was breaking the law, yet Jesus never sinned. Never do we read that Jesus lied, stole, murdered, committed adultery, etc. Jesus never broke God's Moral laws. So what about the Sabbath, is there a chance that Jesus broke the written law about the weekly Sabbath, the 4th commandment and yet was still innocent? Scripture is clear that He did, I know I can hear every Sabbath proclaimer gasping but let's be real and see what scripture says. I contend and scripture is truth and this is what it says concerning this issue. Now remember the weekly Sabbath was just a sign, and not the reality, not the true Rest of God that was lost in Gen 3. So Jesus is not sinning by breaking the 4th commandment because it is not the true Sabbath Rest. Joh 5:1 After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. Joh 5:2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches. Joh 5:3 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water. Joh 5:4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had. Joh 5:5 And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years. Joh 5:6 When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole? Joh 5:7 The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me. Joh 5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk. Joh 5:9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath. Joh 5:10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed. OK here is where most Sabbatarians will say, "Jesus was not commanding this guy to break the Sabbath therefor Jesus is not breaking the law by telling someone else to do so. The Jews set all kinds of burdens and rules of what was not classified as work in their oral laws" I contend, this is clearly a breaking of a command direct from God's mouth to Jeremiah, not Jewish customs and traditions Jer 17:19 Thus said the LORD unto me; Go and stand in the gate of the children of the people, whereby the kings of Judah come in, and by the which they go out, and in all the gates of Jerusalem; Jer 17:20 And say unto them, Hear ye the word of the LORD, ye kings of Judah, and all Judah, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, that enter in by these gates: Jer 17:21 Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem; Jer 17:22 Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers. Jer 17:24 And it shall come to pass, if ye diligently hearken unto me, saith the LORD, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but hallow the sabbath day, to do no work therein; Jer 17:27 But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched. So we see that this is a clear breaking of the weekly Sabbath not to carry a burden according to written law, I heard the arguments that because the guy had no time to prepare on preparation day, and it was necessity, Jesus allowed him to carry his bed,and the reference to Jesus stating an animal falling in a pit on Sabbath and the Jews lifted it out to help it. But that doesn't work. A man was stoned to death for gathering sticks on the Sabbath, surely he was carrying a load, and most likely he was doing it to bake, to eat. John inspired by the Holy Spirit had no problem stating that Jesus broke the Sabbath and Jesus even said that He and the Father are working on the Sabbath. Joh 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. We know Jesus was working on the Sabbath, He was fulfilling it, The Weekly Sabbath ties in with the Jubilee Sabbath, why? Jesus claimed to be the Jubilee Sabbath when He read the scripture stating He would HEAL the blind, sick, etc. After reading He said "Today this scripture is fullfilled." Explains why Jesus was healing on the Sabbath. We know he healed other days, but the Spirit inspired all the authors of the Gospels to write of the many healings that took place on the Sabbath. Jesus was working because he is working to bring us back to God's Rest, The Spirit dwelling in us and having a daily relationship with God just as Adam and Eve had in Gen 2. Jesus was not sinning because He is not breaking a Moral Law of God. And again as I have stated the Sabbath could not be moral in God's character because it was made for man. God's moral character is not made for man, but man was made for God, for His glory right? There is no contradiction there as to why Jesus stated that Sabbath was made for mand not man for the Sabbath after stating that indeed David and the Priest were indeed breaking the weekly sabbath and yet were innocent, why? Because they were participating in the Salvational works of God. After Jesus said that in the temple the priests were breaking the Sabbath and yet innocent, He stated something greater than the temple is here (referring to Himself) So His disciples are not guilty of breaking the Sabbath, they are serving God's Salvation, Jesus, whom is bringing us back to God's Rest, retoring our relationship with God, His Spirit dwelling in us (Matt 12) Just before this chapter Jesus in Matt 11:28-30 stated come to me all who are weary and BURDENED and I will give you rest. All you, take up my yoke and LEARN FROM ME, because I am gentle adn humble in heart, and you will find rest for yourselves. Fory My yoke is easy and My BURDEN is light. The Sabbath implications can not go unoticed. The weekly Sabbath, God stated to not carry a burden on the Sabbath. Jesus said Learn from Me adn He is humble in HEART. He Gives us rest. The weekly sabbath took our effort to rest. Jesus said He will give us rest. in John 7:21-24 Jesus used a ceremonial/ritual law, circumcission in comparison to make His point as to why He worked on the Sabbath. In this inncident Circumcission a ceremonial law (Which we all know is not required anymore since it's fulfilled in Jesus and circumcission is of the heart by the Spirit) takes presedence over the Sabbath, if the Sabbath were a Moral Law no way indeed would Jesus or God allow this. Never has Jesus lied, stolen, murdered, etc in order to perform a ceremonial/ritual law. Jesus stated that He made a Man COMPLETELY WHOLE ON THE SABBATH. Sabbatarian's claim that the Sabbath is the seal of God. The NT is clear that the Seal is the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13-14; Eph 4:30; 2 Cor 1:21-22) And we are Sealed by Faith in Jesus. Jesus was given God's seal of approval when He was baptized and John saw the Spirit decend upon Him as a Dove and Heard "THis is my Son in whom I am well pleased" I would have no problem stated that the 4th commandment acted as a seal for the old covenant ministration, indeed it was a sign (Exodus 31:12-18) And we know a sign only points to something, whether past, present or future. The Sabbath was a sign that God Sanctifies us? We know that under the New Covenant Jessu Sanctifies us (John 10:36 Jesus is sanctified by God; John 17:19; Acts 26:18; Rom 15:16 Holy Spirit; 1 Cor 1:2; 1 Cor 6:11; Heb 2:11; Heb 10:10; Heb 10:14; Heb 10:29; Jude 1:1) It is right to say that the Sabbath was a sign which points to Jesus, in fact it is biblical. The Sabbath sign pointed back for Israel to remember God's Rest which was provided for man to live in, to commune with God daily. (Hebrew liguistics of Gen1 and 2 reveal the nature of God's Rest, everyday God created there was evening and morning, but by the 7th Day God rested and blessed and made Holy, there is no mention of evening and morning, and all is Very Good. Now we know that there was and evening and morning but linguistics tells us that the Holy Spirit inspired Moses to leave that out for a purpose, to signify that the Sabbath Rest of God is eternal, it was for man to be with God forever in His presence (Heb 3 adn 4 make this very clear) The Sabbath was God resting His spirit in this Day (eternal) to have a relationship with man. Man sinned and died a spiritual death, they indeed died that day they ate of the tree forbidden just as God said would happen. They died a separation from God's Spirit which is eternal life. In fact in Gen 2 they were both naked and not ASHAMED. After they died the spiritual death they noticed they were naked and were ashamed. They tirred to cover their shame just as we do. But only God can cover us. If you look in Hebrews 4 after God mentions we enter His rest through the works of Jesus and receive again this eternal life once had (Born again of the Spirit) notice in verses 12-13 especially 13 No Creature is hidden from Him, but all things are NAKED and exposed to the eyes of Him to whom we must give an account. than in verses 14-16 We are indeed covered and can come before God again unashamed of our nakedness. We truly have Rest in Christ's finished Works. Jesus has restored our relationship with God as was back in the Garden, we have God's Spirit dwelling in us, EVERYDAY Just as intended for man, we are no longer spiritually dead but made alive with Christ and already seated in Heavenly places with Him.) So the Sabbath is God's Rest, It's His Spirit resting in us, and they way to receive this is through the finished Works of Christ and to Faith in Jesus whom through the Spirit is God's law in our heart. Look at this verse and tell me this doesn't speak of God's Spirit dwelling in us: Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings. (And we are the temple of the Lord and the Spirit of God dwells in us.) We have Sabbath with God daily and it is indeed TODAY, encourage eachother Daily as long as it is called TODAY (Heb 3). Israel has a shadow of Sabbath, they were to rest the 7th but it quickly left them, they only had but a taste of what was to come, With God's spirit dwelling in us and giving us rest as was intended in Gen 2. Just as their sacrifices were daily reminders but never cleared their conscience of their sin, just as each feast came and went, The Day of Atonement were they temporarily felt all sins were forgiven, yet the following day the daily sacrifices would have started all over again. Why would anyone want to cling to a day that cannot save, and allow God to dwell in you and give you rest from all your vein attempt s to try and please God. You Love God, accept His free Gift, Jesus Christ, that is loving God with all your heart, mind and soul. With Jesus in us, we have God's law, We have God's Spirit and our relationship is restored as was in the beginning. Jesus did indeed state in so many words that He is the Sabbath. He said He was Lord of the Sabbath, in John 6:26-51 Jesus said Don't work for the food that perishes but for the food that lasts for eternal life, Which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set HIS SEAL of Approval on Him. the Jews asked "What can we do to perform the work of God" Jesus stated "This is the work of God, to believe in the One He sent." Here is the tie in with Exodus 16 and the Sabbath being the SIGN. The Jews asked What SIGN are you going to perform so that we may believe You? Moses gave us the manna in the wilderness" (what was that sign used with Manna, it was the Sabbath) Jesus stated "Moses didn't give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the real bread from heaven, for the bread from heaven is the One who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world." They stated "Give us this bread always!" Jesus said "I AM the Bread of Life" and in so many words whoever eats of Jesus (Faith) will be preserved they will have eternal life, they will receive the Holy Spirit which is God and God is eternal life. What happened with the Manna in Exodus 16? They had to work for food that perished 6 days, if they kept what they gathered those days the next day it perished, it rotted and bred worms. But the miracle the sign performed, God commanded Moses to have them keep what they gather and bake on the sixth day for God is giving them the Sabbath. The sign what God provided was bread that did not perish, which they did not have to work for. No wonder, Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man no man for the Sabbath and that He is Lord of the Sabbath. God desired Mercy not sacrifice Jesus stated in Matt 12:7 He said if they would know what that means they would not have condemned the innocent. Why? What did Jesus mean by this? Well it's simple are we to offer up sacrifice by keeping the Sabbath, or except the Mercy of God and the Grace of Jesus Christ. the True Sabbath Rest is not what we offer up to God, because our works perish, but If we rest in God's mercy through the Grace of Jesus' completed Works we will enter God's Rest (Gen 2 - Heb 4) We will receive the Holy Spriti which is eternal life and be preserved just as the bread miraculously was. This is why Paul inpsired by the Holy Spirit was able to call the Sabbath a shadow and the Jesus the substance in Col 2:16-17 indeed all the Feast (Lev 23) are shadows of what Christ has done for us. Paul stated in Romans 14 not to judge anyone according to any day we observe to the Lord, if the weekly Sabbath was moral never would the Spirit inspire Paul to state this. I should not condemn those who worship Jesus on Saturday and They should not condemn those who worship Jesus on Sunday or any day for that matter, keeping a day does not save or show god we love Him. Faith in Jesus is what pleases the Lord, which gives us a relationship and rest with Him. Col 2:16-17 state that they were a shadow of things to come, at that time the shadows were fading as the New Covenant was becoming more glorious. But did the reality come and the shadow fade, certainly they did at the destruction of the Temple, when Paul stated a shadow of things to come, the temple was still standing. Look at Heb 9:8-10 The Holy Spirit was making it clear that the way into the Holy of Holies had not yet been disclosed while the first tabernacle was first standing. This is a symbol for the present time (Paul's time not ours) in which gifts and sacrifices are offered that cannot perfect the worshiper's conscience. They are physical regulations and only deal with food, drink, and various washings imposed until the time of restoration. Read verses 11-12 Jesus has now appeared and entered the greater tabernacle made without hands. He entered the Holy of Holies once for all, not by the blood of goats or bulls, but by His own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. In Hebrew 10:1 Since the Law has only a shadow of good things to come (Paul’s present time) and not the actual form of those realities, it can never perfect the worshipers by the same sacrifices they continually offer year after year. So we see the shadow lasted up to the destruction of the temple in 70AD. There no longer is a temple so clearly the shadow is gone and our reality is found in Christ. | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 469 Registered: 3-2009 |
Hey, Pnoga & Enoch, can you write to BSF headquarters about this? I'm reading the notes today, and they're saying exactly what the leader said yesterday. Here's what they argue in brief: "The 10c and related laws contained in the books of Ex. and Deut. simply set forth basic principles that relate to loving God with one's whole being and loving one's neighbors as one's self. However, in order to see how to apply these great principles to little details of daily life, the Jews had added thousands of little rules for governing every single action... For example, God said that the Sabbath was to be separated from other days of the week and used for rest and for time to love and worship Him. The law said that no man, his servants, or his animals must work on Sabbath (Ex. 20:8-11). This involved such work as trading or carrying heavy loads for commercial purposes. (See Neh. 13:15-19; Jeremiah 17:19-27). However, Jewish rabbis of Jesus' day had carried this basic law to such extremes that they solemnly agreed that if a man carried a needle in his robe or a woman her brooch, it constituted a load". I feel like I'm overreacting, but this bothers me. | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 471 Registered: 3-2009 |
...I'm reading along further in the notes and they get worse. Basically they're arguing that Christians should keep a weekly Sabbath because Jesus kept it and it was established at creation. Oh no, oh no! *holding head in anguish* | ||
| Seekinglight Registered user Username: Seekinglight Post Number: 472 Registered: 3-2009 |
Seriously, my folks are coming over for Thanksgiving this year, and I'm gonna have to keep my BSF notebook hidden b/c my SDA pastor father would SO use this against me... Like they need any more ammunition than they already have... | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 323 Registered: 1-2007 |
This is why it is important to follow scripture and not put your trust in what man teaches. Surely you can learn truths from man, as the Spirit will work through them. We just have to be good Bereans and search the scriptues daily to see whether these things are true or not. That's the sad things about SDA's is they are a false doctrinal church battling another false doctrine. They can have that if that is what they want. I will take the ridicule and harsh statement anyday for the truth we have all blessed to have been revealed to us. Keep our faith in Jesus in these rough seas. Paul |
