| Author | Message | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3099 Registered: 10-2004  |
Here is something I just posted on another forum: Since leaving Adventism, I have to come to really appreciate the Christmas carol "Hark! The Herald Angels Sing" and the wonderful lyrics that it contains. It certainly exalts the Lord Jesus as the one and only true God. Here are the first three verses of the hymn:
The truths of this song clearly refute several SDA teachings. In fact, the SDAs seem to have recognized this. Today I was disgusted to find (although I had known this before) that the SDAs, in the official SDA Hymnal, have (as they've done with many other hymns) completely changed the wording (since they defend EGW's plagiarism, I guess they also have no problem with "reverse plagiarism"!). In the official SDA Hymnal, they have totally deleted the references to Jesus' full deity in the second verse of this carol, and replaced those lines with other words. Here is the song as it appears in the SDA Hymnal:
Notice how they have changed the two lines: "Veiled in flesh the Godhead see; Hail th’incarnate Deity," to "'Peace on earth, to men good will;' bid the trembling soul be still," This is beyond despicable--but should not be too shocking, since Adventism simply rejects the teaching contained in those lines. (By the way, the LDS hymnal simply leaves out the second verse.) If Adventism actually believes in the full deity of Christ (that He is the only true God), then why would they carefully delete such references from their Hymnal? But those aren't the only changes they made to this hymn. Notice that they also changed: "Late in time, behold Him come, Offspring of a virgin’s womb. [...] Pleased with us in flesh to dwell," to "in the manger born a king, while adoring angels sing, [...] Christ on earth has come to dwell," In other words, due to their Gnostic/Nestorian beliefs, they get rid of the fact that Christ actually became a man and has come in the flesh (one person--Jesus Christ--with two inseparable natures, divine and human). And then, in the last three lines of the third verse, they change: "Born that man no more may die. Born to raise the sons of earth, Born to give them second birth." to "born that we no more may die, born to raise us from the earth, born to give us second birth." (Changes in bold.) Here, for the third verse, they use an alternate version, so that they can speak of the resurrection (actually "re-creation") of the righteous instead of the new birth (being born again). Since they teach that the promise of Jesus ("everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die"--John 11:26 NASB) is actually "the devil's first lie"--they can't have "that man no more may die" be referring to the new birth! One way to see what Adventism really teaches is to simply look at what they do with the lyrics of the classic hymns of the Christian faith. And they simply refuse to accept Jesus as the one true God. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on December 13, 2009) | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 437 Registered: 1-2006  |
Great post, Jeremy! Thanks for sharing! Bob | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1372 Registered: 11-2007  |
Having spent many Christmas seasons out caroling for ingathering, I believe the sda version of this song is the most familiar to me, and I didn't know it had been changed. When I have heard it since, I didn't pick up on that. Do you have any idea when this was altered? Very very revealing - and kind of makes it hard to argue they believe in the full Deity of Christ and the Trinity like Evangelicals do with that evidence. Sondra | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 845 Registered: 3-2009 |
Do you know if anyone has done a study of the changes to the classical Christian Hymns in the SDA hymnal? Hec | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3100 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hec, There was an article in the January/February 2005 Proclamation!, but it was only able to touch on several of the changed hymns. See the article entitled "'Tell me the old, old story...' Uh, which one?" beginning on page 8: http://lifeassuranceministries.org/Proclamation2005_JanFeb.pdf Also, here is a previous FAF thread with some more changes in the SDA Hymnal(s): http://www.formeradventist.com/discus/messages/5370/3043.html Jeremy | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3101 Registered: 10-2004 |
NOTE: The current official SDA Hymnal, as shown at Google Books, does have the traditional wording for verse 3: http://books.google.com/books?id=VJUBoFYC21QC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_navlinks_s#v=onepage&q=&f=false (page 122). I don't know why there is a discrepancy between that and the Digital Hymnal site. Perhaps the old (pre-1985) version of the hymnal had the changed words in verse 3? Or maybe it is different in different printings of the current hymnal? Regardless, the second verse is corrupted according to both sites. Additionally, the popular SDA songbook Christ In Song, which was compiled by F.E. Belden and published in 1908 and was recently re-published in 2008 by the official Review and Herald Publishing Association as a 100th anniversary edition (an “exact copy” of the original), also contains the same wording as the current official SDA Hymnal (as displayed at the above Google Books link). The song can be found in Christ In Song at the following link (#353): http://books.google.com/books?id=fZbCH_CoFOIC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_navlinks_s#v=onepage&q;=&f=false Jeremy | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 748 Registered: 2-2008  |
I wonder if the Jehovah Witnesses have a different version as well... or do they not even sing Christmas songs at all? vivian | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 846 Registered: 3-2009 |
Thanks for the links, Jeremy. Hec | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 10746 Registered: 12-2003  |
Great post, Jeremy. I have the pre-1980 SDA hymnal in front of me as well as the post-1980 SDA hymnal. The second verse is altered in both versions exactly as you showed above. The third verse, however, is like the original in both editions:
That second verse, though, is shocking. I've heard the original version so often on recordings and also in church recently that I'd never registered that the words were different. I think I sort-of semi-consciously assumed they were singing a different verse. (Ha!--they were...) The denial of the Jesus' deity and the subtle but clear rephrasing that denies that the Lord Jesus, fully and eternally God, came in a body, is the very heresy against which John warns and calls "antichrist". Steve Pitcher, who did the research with us for the article in Proclamation to which Jeremy linked above, says that one of the most clear ways to identify a cult's true beliefs is in their hymns. He says that cults always have their own hymnals the reflect their own doctrines. Now we know why Adventists don't simply use Christian hymnals already in print. They are subtly brainwashing their members...and those doctrinal perspectives taught in the hymns are almost unconscious. I know that I had no idea as an Adventist that I wasn't learning the great hymns of the faith as they actually were written. Colleen | ||
| Surfy Registered user Username: Surfy Post Number: 609 Registered: 11-2007 |
Are these old songs copyrighted somewhere or cataloged and is it permissible for a publisher to change the words without prior approval and without footnoting the change? Surfy | ||
| Doc Registered user Username: Doc Post Number: 486 Registered: 2-2003  |
Vivian, In answer to your question about JWs. I have attended a couple of their meetings here in Veszprém, Hungary, as I am also spending some time discussing theology with some of them. They are some of the most dry and boring meetings I have ever been to. They just read through an article from the Watchtower magazine and answer banal questions on each paragraph. As to the songs, I didn't recognise any of them as coming from other sources, and they did not even seem to be praise to God. Of course, they use the name of Jehovah (who is only the Father in their theology). Most seemed to be about how nice it was to be together and aren't we blessed to be in the truth! I was pretty appalled. Adrian | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 749 Registered: 2-2008 |
ha! Doc, you just described the adventist church in my town! It's just interesting that they had to change even the music they sing. I've always wondered with the fear that they have of "Sunday keepers" persecuting them... why do they sing songs that are written by "Sunday keepers"? Shouldn't EGW have been appalled about singing songs written by "nominal" Christians? vivian p.s. The church I went to in CA wasn't as dead as the church is out here... better music at least. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 5797 Registered: 9-2006  |
When you attend church with the dead, its of course going to be...well..........dead! | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 976 Registered: 7-2005  |
Hmmm...I never thought about how the hymns can reveal the true doctrines of a cult. Very interesting. I would so love to share this with my husband, but I wonder if the veil is so heavy that it wouldn't make any difference. *sigh* | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1374 Registered: 11-2007 |
My husband who studied with JW for a brief time and attended a couple meetings says they have their own hymnal with songs they have written... which is better than altering the traditional ones! Also, I remember Worldwide Church of God hymnal had very few traditional songs in it. Nearly all the songs were newly written - and very little mention of Jesus anywhere. I posted this info on my facebook status. It's HUGE evidence to me! Sondra | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1609 Registered: 6-2006  |
One other thing I see in these phrases ~ "Born that man no more may die. Born to raise the sons of earth, Born to give them second birth." to "born that we no more may die, born to raise us from the earth, born to give us second birth." It's the classic "us against them" mentality. Since the SDA church considers itself the remnant, then of course it's "all about us". If they were singing about the people in the original verse then they'd have to admit that Jesus saves other believers as well. Thanks Jeremy ~ great post!  Leigh Anne | ||
| Psalm107v2 Registered user Username: Psalm107v2 Post Number: 516 Registered: 10-2008  |
I'm sure I've said it here before but hymns meant nothing to me when I was an SDA and I found them boring. Now today I prefer hymns to much of what makes up contemporary Christian music. I shake my head at how many Christian hymns are in the SDA hymnal because if the average SDA thought about the words for just a few moments they would see how much the gospel presented in those hymns contradict SDA teaching. An example in my mind would be the line "God and sinners reconciled" A person cannot be reconciled and in the midst of an investigative judgement all at the same time. Some other hymns that I find to be ironic that they are in the SDA hymnal Give me the Bible Beneath the Cross of Jesus (my favorite) My hope is built on nothing less Enoch | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1379 Registered: 11-2007 |
Yes.. there are many in there that I am amazed they can sing. They didn't manage to edit out all the lyrics that didn't go along with their teachings.. like corrupted Bible translations can't totally wipe out the truth either. I have a Hebrew Roots Bible translation that changes every reference to the New Covenant to "renewed" covenant. But yet.. they can't take away the rest of the witness of scripture that refutes that rendering. Kind of interesting how that works. On my facebook status, one sda has claimed that this Christmas song was altered many times, even during the life of the author, and that it was changed long before it was published in the sda hymnal. Any info on that claim? It still does not give an answer to the underlying issue (why is this a pattern?), but an interesting attempt to discredit the statement. Sondra | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 1610 Registered: 6-2006 |
Sondra, your SDA friend is partly right, according to Wikipedia. However, it was the tune that was changed and not the lyrics. I looked up Charles Wesley's original lyrics (wasn't hard to do) and here they are ~ http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Hark!_the_Herald_Angels_Sing The original verses we're looking at are: Hark! the herald angels sing, "Glory to the new born King, peace on earth, and mercy mild, God and sinners reconciled!" Joyful, all ye nations rise, join the triumph of the skies; with th' angelic host proclaim, "Christ is born in Bethlehem!" Hark! the herald angels sing, "Glory to the new born King!" Christ, by highest heaven adored; Christ, the everlasting Lord; late in time behold him come, offspring of a virgin's womb. Veiled in flesh the Godhead see; hail th' incarnate Deity, pleased as man with man to dwell, Jesus, our Emmanuel. Hark! the herald angels sing, "Glory to the new born King!" I think your facebook friend is grabbing at straws... Leigh Anne | ||
| 8thday Registered user Username: 8thday Post Number: 1380 Registered: 11-2007 |
Thank you for confronting that claim on there! I did ask him to show me. He is my step-father, so there's a lot I could say - but won't =). He's a great guy, but there are some interesting dynamics in how he became an SDA. I found it interesting that at first he said Adventism is the only church that makes sense, then went on to say he didn't really know what was on the 28 Fundamental beliefs, or if he agreed with them all. I think that said more than I could ever say. Sondra (Message edited by 8thday on December 15, 2009) |
