| Author | Message | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1011 Registered: 3-2009 |
EGW says:
What does she mean by animal passions? Is she inferring that humans are related to animals (as in evolution)? Do we have animal passions? Or is that just a way of saying sex? Hec | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 395 Registered: 5-2009 |
Sex-drive. Interesting how she describes something God-given in terms of "animal". And saying these "passions" were passed down from the parents to the children in the form of "vice". It's so much baloney that God told her this junk! Just think of all the harm this has done! I'm sure some of this was probably the prevailing attitude (maybe) of the time, but she re-enforced this with the authority of God! A few years ago I read a paper that was passed out to the cradle roll leaders back in the late 50's. It was in a box of flannels and song sheets that my mom had used. It was important info from a meeting with the mothers of the children in the class. I wish I had kept it, but it was creepy. The main part I remember was that the moms were taught that each night as you tucked your children in bed, you were to make sure their hands were OUTSIDE the covers! I'm sure it was full of EGW quotes. This was a church in SoCal--just your average sda group. (The church even had a bowling league so it wasn't an ultra conservative church.) | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1967 Registered: 4-2000  |
Hec, Good points about "animal passions." Since SDAs believe that when one dies they die just like an animal--with no spirit--they are merely theistic evolutionists at best (not creationists). Thus, Adventists are on the side of the atheists, evolutionists, agnostics, heathen, etc. who do not believe in the immaterial part of man nor a resurrection. Not even God can resurrect someone who doesn't exist. Indeed, Seventh-day Adventism is a very physical religion. What you see is what you get or have. SDA theology concerning the nature of man is essentially based on their faithlessness. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11209 Registered: 12-2003  |
Absolutely. Ellen's doctrines of demons (see 1 Tim. 4:1-4) work well with the SDA belief that man is only physical without a spirit. The fact that she talks about the "moral and intellectual organs" and "the animal" further reveals that this was not remotely inspired by God. What are Moral organs, and what are animal organs? Good grief... I think I'm too tired to take this in stride...ha! Colleen | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 794 Registered: 7-2008  |
I am an expert in "animal passions". Animals do have passion. My passion is popcorn and root beer, to name a few. ...Animal...always in a mood for passion...hehehehe | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1250 Registered: 7-2007 |
Hec, I think she also said at one point that people shouldn't have children, because it was too near the end or something. And here's another one Hec. Didn't Ellen also say that "flesh foods" excite the animal passions? And also that those who eat meat won't have the strength to go through the time of trouble? Jesus ate meat. The night He went to the garden of Gethsemane, He and His disciples ate the Passover lamb. God commanded the Israelites to eat the Passover lamb and Jesus was living under that Old Covenant, so He ate it. He certainly went through His time of trouble to redeem us. Then after He rose from the dead, He served some of His disciples who had gone fishing, a fish breakfast. Is Ellen White saying she knows more than what God knows about whether the eating of flesh foods "excites the animal passions" or not? Oh, and according to her, butter is a stimulant, coffee and tea are narcotics, etc. etc. (There are a whole lot of tidbits like these in "Counsels on Diet and Foods.") | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 819 Registered: 2-2008  |
Asurprise, I was reading through some of her writings before I left the church and I remember that she did write that if you eat meat that will excite your "animal" passions. I read this on a site that had several of her books online. Can't remember where at this point. vivian | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6196 Registered: 9-2006  |
Dear Asurprise, If tea is a narcotic, I drink about a gallon of narcotic a day. My last doctors visit he ask me how much sugar I put in that gallon, I told him four teaspoons. He said keep it up, do you think I should listen to sister Ellen? I eat flesh foods, and there are some that think I am an animal around women. Is it the flesh foods that makes me a chick magnant? Plus I'm tired a lot, I thought it was from working, but now I wonder. I just ate a 16 ounce t bone, and I feel my strength leaving, plus I peed on my neighbors fence post and chased a car down the street. In desperate need of advice in Washington. River | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2106 Registered: 5-2007  |
Well River, Just after your next T-bone steak, drive over to that tree we pulled that hooker around stop and do your animal thing. Or, you might run over to Ridgefield and run a dead possum up one of those flag poles in front of that citadel that offends I-5 travelers. Or, you can take your next road kill and put it on my great-grandfather's grave.  Fearless Phil | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6197 Registered: 9-2006 |
Speaking of trees, I had planned to come up this week end, and everything went sour. Dennis had planned to take his Mom on an outing, but his wifes mother died of a heart attack, so he had to take off for California. So we ended up at the coast Thursday, we bar-b=cued T bones today for my wife, so passions were high around here. Right now I'm really passionate about not having any more deaths in the family for at least a month. But I still am determined to make it up there and visit. You'll have to feed me to keep Hooch safe from me. I think I'll leave grandpa at peace, but it is really tempting to run a dead possum up that flagpole in Ridgefield! That place gives me the creeps every time I go past it. | ||
| Martinc Registered user Username: Martinc Post Number: 137 Registered: 9-2006 |
Animal passions: Believe me, try googling that phrase and you'll be enundated with porn sites about bestiality. The non-porn sites talked about their deep love for their pets and lamanted that more people weren't like their dogs. Well, that got me to thinking. If moral development is all about having certain "organs" and avoiding excitement, then consider the following. My Dog is Morally Superior Ellen White didn't believe that there is any qualitative difference between animal sexual desire and such desire in humans. In fact, if what any male dog feels for a female dog is "passion," the main difference between him and me is just the level of inhibition. Supposedly, I have "moral and intellectual organs" that give me an advantage over my poor dog. Around females, my dog Cashew would have less self-restraint than me. But here's why he is superior. He has been fixed. This gives him a moral advantage because his animal passion organs are gone. He is well-behaved around females, better than most people, by Ellen's definitions. His animal appetites for food are also restrained, because he doesn't rush to his food bowl when we fill it, but he waits until we leave the kitchen. He hesitates with his food, and completely abstains from sex. His good behavior is exemplary because he suppresses his appetites--or has none. Now if he would just stop lusting after those rawhide bones, he would be perfect. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 1968 Registered: 4-2000 |
Martinc, Also try Googling "history of sex" and Adventism quickly comes into the picture (usually in regard to Dr. John Kellogg). Some think he had mumps as a child and became sterile, etc. He and his wife supposedly never had sex, and they adopted all their children (nearly 20). Moreover, Dr. Kellogg was Adventism's first medical director. What a shameful legacy he left that still affects many people today! His legacy in regard to sexual organs is nothing less than outright mutilation. Yes, Ellen White even equated masturbation as being the same as suicide:
Interestingly, of all her cited case histories about "moral pollution," "self-indulgence," "secret sin," or "self-abuse," it is noteworthy that no person ever overcame the "crime." Dennis Fischer (Message edited by Dennis on May 10, 2010) | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 473 Registered: 1-2006  |
Hec Interesting thread! Years ago I read an article in an adventist publication (I've forgotten which one) on What Jesus Would Say to a Homosexual--I think that was the title. It's online now. I'll put up the link here in a minute. In the 1980s I worked for the local county health department (Riverside County, California) and had opportunity to write the AIDS education grants for about 6 or 7 years, I guess, right at the beginning of the epidemic. During that time, I made friends with maybe a half dozen gay men who worked with us as subcontractors. This is a "safe topic" for me--in no way a temptation for me--and God forbid that I'd ever admit to any sins of my own! Anyway, my heart was forever softened as I got to know these men. I saw many such selfless acts of kindness that I had simply never encountered in my safe and sterile adventist world. I cannot imagine what it must be like. Imagine, for a moment, that the Bible was quite clear that heterosexuality was wrong, etc, etc, and that homosexuality was really creation's ideal state. What on earth would I do? I'm not hetero by choice! And as a hetero, are my temptations/sins any less offensive? Anyway, I was interested to find this article many years ago, and found it online today after reading this thread. "Blessed are the poor in spirit . . ." http://www.gladventist.org/lead/wwjs.htm I'm not trying to make any big point, just wanted to share the article here. We all need the Lord. Bob | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11213 Registered: 12-2003 |
Interesting article by John McLarty, Bob. I find two things primarily missing, and these two things define the viewpoint on the subject. First, while he deals with being "born again" in the last section of his paper, he does not define it biblically. Being born again does not consist of engaging "in spiritual practices that help you internalize this fantastic truth"—that one is a child of God. The Bible describes being saved as believing that the Lord Jesus rose from the dead after dying for our sin and confessing Him as Lord—in other words, submitting our lives and minds to Him and accepting His sacrifice for us. When we do this, the Holy Spirit indwells us, bringing us to spiritual life and giving us the spirit of adoption (Rom 8:14-15) and a new birth into God's family. McLarty describes the "new birth" as believing we are God's children. The Bible describes the new birth as being born of the Spirit (John 3:3-5). It is not a new idea we internalize. Second, McLarty does not deal with the biblical teaching of sin. The Bible teaches that homosexuality is sin, and it repeatedly says it is not appropriate behavior for children of God. But homosexuality is sin like any other sin. It is something we submit to the Lord Jesus. He saves us in our sin, but then He works in us to clean us up as we surrender to Him our identities and weaknesses. Jesus would certainly have treated a homosexual exactly as lovingly as he treated the woman caught in adultery. He would have rescued them from tormenters, and He would have told them to go and sin no more. McLarty misses the essence of the gospel, and in missing it, he deals with the problem of homosexuality in a way that doesn't address the anxiety and confusion and compulsion—or the guilt—of the sin. I'm not saying our job is to attack homosexuals and police them into subservience. That is a wrong-headed idea. But all of us are called to surrender our identities when we encounter the Lord Jesus and allow Him to be our only identity, allowing Him to deliver us from any identity that contradicts or opposes Him. We cannot rationalize holding onto something that He explicitly calls us to give up to Him for His sake. We ALL have to submit something very dear and defining to Him. This is the nature of being human and being called to become a child of God (John 1:12). We are not born children of God; we become children of God when we are born again (John 1:12; Romans 8:14-16; Rom. 9). Colleen | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 577 Registered: 11-2005 |
Amen, Colleen. Very well said. This topic of "homosexuality" is interesting to me right now, because just this last week I was talking to a friend (who is a Christian), whose son is a practicing homosexual (and not a Christian). She is a fairly new Christian, and has found herself in the habit of changing churches whenever she hears a church say, "Homosexuality is a sin." She thought that the pronouncement was "ultraconservative" and "judgmental". Interestingly, though, in her small group last week, she read for the FIRST time in the Bible where homosexuality is a sin. Up until that point, she thought it was just an opinion and perhaps implied by the Bible, and not something that was actually defined so clearly in the Bible. She burst into tears that night as she read that for the first time. She told my other friend (who was with her at the time), "I just read that my son is going to Hell. What am I suppose to do with that?" My other friend, who is also a new Christian, said, "I'm sorry. I don't know what to say except that the way it looks right now, most of my children are going to Hell not because they are homosexual but because they haven't accepted the Lord." Sin is sin, and it's all rooted in brokenness, and "identity issues" of some sort. But God can heal all brokenness, including homosexuality. I personally know of an individual who did overcome homosexuality when he gave his life to the Lord. Was it easy? Not at all. Does he still have some vulnerabilities and weaknesses in the area? I think on this side of heaven, he probably always will to some degree. Just like OCD tendencies will always be a point of weakness for me. But God has him. And He has me. And He's working with all of His children that He has called so that they may become the individual that God always intended them to be. Colleen is right. Regardless of our nature and the sin we struggle with, it all comes down to surrender. My friend asked me, "Well what if Grant [her son] becomes Christian and decides he wants to still be homosexual?" My personal opinion is that it will be extremely uncomfortable for him to continue in his lifestyle as a truly born again person. It's like a druggie who gives his life to God. Will he want to continue to hang out with his druggie friends? That doesn't mean the desire will instantly go away, and that he won't always struggle to some degree with the natural tendencies of his flesh. But I believe that God is faithful to complete the work He began in us. Here's a link to Exodus International which is a Christian organization for homosexuals, and works with individuals so that they can find freedom through Jesus Christ. There are tons of amazing testimonies on that site that tell of how God transformed their desires. Although it's not an area of weakness for me, I found it extremely encouraging for my own walk. God is so faithful to transform us into entirely new creatures. http://www.exodusinternational.org/ Grace | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 649 Registered: 5-2002 |
Animal passions, animal organs, vital force, etc. - all of these are references to then-contemporary medical models that have long-since been abandoned. |
