"Satan..rejoiced...that he could...pu... Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Edit Profile

Former Adventist Fellowship Forum » ARCHIVED DISCUSSIONS 9 » "Satan..rejoiced...that he could...pull down the Son of God" « Previous Next »

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
  Start New Thread        

Author Message
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 3364
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a quote from Ellen G. White that I just found and posted in the Members Only section, but I thought I would start a new thread for it in the public section:


quote:

"Satan again rejoiced with his angels that he could, by causing man's fall, pull down the Son of God from his exalted position. He told his angels that when Jesus should take fallen man's nature, he could overpower him, and hinder the accomplishment of the plan of salvation." (Spiritual Gifts, Volume 1, page 27, paragraph 1.)




Any thoughts on this quote?

Jeremy
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 11610
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 11:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, my goodness. First, here is more evidence that Ellen did not see Jesus as Almighty God. He could be "pulled down" from "his exalted position". Moreover, this quote restates the EGW assertion that God exalted Jesus--that he had NOT been equal to the Father before he was "exalted". (Frankly--that's a pretty Mormon concept...exaltation...)

Additionally, this quote shows that EGW believed Satan had a "fair chance" of defeating Jesus. At least, he had the "permission" to take him on. The Bible never, ever suggests such blasphemy. Satan has always known who Jesus is, and he has never believed Jesus was his "foe". He knows Jesus is his Creator and Lord. He may not acknowledge Him thus, but he knows.

This quote also states Jesus had a fallen nature, and finally, it suggests that we, like Jesus, can overpower Satan. We, like Jesus can defeat satan's arrogant attempts to derail us.

Wrong. We never defeat satan. Jesus defeated Satan, and when we are in Christ, alive with His life by the indwelling Holy Spirit, we can live in His victory--not ours.

This quote summarizes Adventism's false Jesus and false assumption of power and familiarity Satan is supposed to have in relationship to Jesus, and suggests that salvation is about fallen flesh overcoming Satan.

It's all false. And it's the shape of Adventist theology. Adventism has a different jesus.

Colleen
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 3365
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exactly, Colleen. One other thing I noticed was the last part, where she says, "and hinder the accomplishment of the plan of salvation."

In other words, if Satan had "overpowered" Jesus, it would "hinder" the plan of salvation, but Jesus' perfect sacrifice was not necessarily required for the plan of salvation.

Jeremy

(Message edited by jeremy on August 26, 2010)
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 1769
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 7:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just from looking at the quote, Ellen White has:

Degraded Jesus. By saying he was in an "exalted position", he would have had to achieved that position in some way which infers he was created, and in a less than exalted position.

Exalted Satan. "Satan again rejoiced with his angels that he could pull down the Son of God from his exalted position". I ask this all the time, but how could Ellen White know that Satan is rejoicing about anything (was she with him?), and where in the Bible does it say that Satan can defeat or "pull down" the son of God? On the contrary, at the least, Jesus thwarted Satan's temptations on the mountain simply by telling him to bug off!

Now who would want Satan exalted and Jesus degraded?

I wish I could write more, but I have to get the kids to school...

:-) Leigh Anne
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter

Post Number: 951
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 8:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:
"Satan again rejoiced with his angels that he could, by causing man's fall, pull down the Son of God from his exalted position. He told his angels that when Jesus should take fallen man's nature, he could overpower him, and hinder the accomplishment of the plan of salvation." (Spiritual Gifts, Volume 1, page 27, paragraph 1.)

OH MY !
What did she mean by "Satan 'AGAIN' rejoiced with his angels" ?? She must have said something previous to this statement about Satan "rejoicing" if he according to Ellen "again rejoiced".
What has Satan (since his fall) EVER had to REJOICE about ????

"when Jesus should take fallen man's nature, he could overpower him, and hinder the accomplishment of the plan of salvation."

To me this statement implies that Jesus taking on "mans nature" somehow took away from his Divinity. As Leigh Anne said above , when Jesus was tempted by Satan , He simply told Satan to leave and he HAD to leave. That shows that He was still in control , and still retained His DIVINE nature even while in a human body.

How would EGW know what SATAN said to HIS fallen angels ? I know Ellen often said that her "accompanying angel" showed her different things and told her things.... it is becoming more and more apparent that if indeed she did have an "accompanying angel" that "angel" was not from Heaven.

For her to even suggest that Satan has EVER had a chance to "overpower" Jesus... that is just... sick ! It is like she was saying that once Jesus took on human form that it would put Jesus and Satan on a level playing field and that it would be POSSIBLE for Satan to "win".

Ellen was a very sick and deceived woman.:-(

Francie
Gcfrankie
Registered user
Username: Gcfrankie

Post Number: 690
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 10:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't it somewhere in her writings that said Jesus and Satan where brothers or equals before the fall? That satan was jealous because God choose Jesus to be the creator and that is why he went after Eve?
I was not raised in the church and it has been a long time since I have read anything she wrote and have forgotten it because I never really studied her. So I could be way off base.
Cortney
Registered user
Username: Cortney

Post Number: 163
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 12:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gcfrankie- I had heard something similar to what you posted, too. I'm not sure of the source but my in-laws believe lucifer and Christ were brothers or had a brotherly bond and that lucifer was angry with God because he chose Jesus to take part in creation and not himself. Cults have a way of 'playing down Jesus' and 'building up fear and legalism through false doctrine', it is really blasphemy against Jesus Christ and his Finished Work. With beliefs like this it is easy to see why Adventism has such a hard time defining the Trinity and why the early Adventists were anti-trinitarian. Maybe that's why many Adventists prefer the term GodHead over Trinity? just a guess..
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2

Post Number: 2539
Registered: 8-2004


Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

:-) Yes, many SDAs I knew considered the word Trinity to be a vestige of paganism and "Godhead" to be a much better word to use.
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise

Post Number: 1370
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 12:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jeremy; I have the paper-back version of "Early Writings." Volumn One of "Spiritual Gifts" is the second half of the book, so it starts about page 133. What's the name of the chapter where that quote is? Then I could find it easily. Thanks :-)

Gcfrankie and Cortney; look in EGW's book "Spirit of Prophecy" Volumn One, starting in the second paragraph (about page 17). She makes it quite clear how Jesus was "promoted" to equality with the Father and how the angels had to be told about it. Obviously it was a new concept for them. It's frustrating how Adventists sometimes excuse the things she wrote. There's an Adventist where I work who said that the angels had to be "reminded" because of things going on, such as Satan's agitating. Even going by that Adventist's reasoning though, nothing was "going on" until the Father announced that Jesus "should be equal with himself" because it was only AFTER that, (according to Ellen White) that Satan got jealous.

Besides which, angels aren't stupid. They wouldn't need reminding that Jesus is equal to the Father.

(Message edited by Asurprise on August 28, 2010)
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 3366
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Asurprise,

It is chapter 3, "The Plan of Salvation."


quote:

Besides which, angels aren't stupid. They wouldn't need reminding that Jesus is equal to the Father.




Especially if there was only one God (who is an invisible spirit), anyway!

Jeremy
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 3367
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Skeeter,


quote:

What did she mean by "Satan 'AGAIN' rejoiced with his angels" ?? She must have said something previous to this statement about Satan "rejoicing" if he according to Ellen "again rejoiced".




Yes, she wrote in the previous chapter, regarding Adam and Eve's fall:


quote:

"Then Satan triumphed. Others he had made to suffer by his fall. He had been shut out of heaven, they out of Paradise." (Spiritual Gifts, Volume 1, page 22, paragraph 1.)




Jeremy
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 1771
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Still amazed that she was privy to all that Satan thought and felt. He must have been dictating to her... "Ellen, come into my office and take a letter!"

:-) Leigh Anne
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 8475
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Like the way you think Leigh Anne!!
Diana L
Bobj
Registered user
Username: Bobj

Post Number: 553
Registered: 1-2006


Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 8:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Leigh Anne

I totally agree with what you are implying in your post, just above.

Why does Ellen so often give us satan's viewpoint? Where did she get all that information about satan?

Every time she does that, it tends to create sympathy, whether the reader realizes it or not.

Satan was happy, satan was sad, satan felt that it was all unfair, poor dear satan, had a bad day. This sounds like utter blasphemy, but I grew up reading this by the truckload!

I can distinctly remember feelings of sympathy for satan after reading Ellen.

Why would satan have to offer to have a part in our salvation, after God had refused to save fallen man, as Ellen suggests? There is so much that is just plain from the dark side.

Were we blind? (not you, Leigh Anne, but us formers?)

Bob
Joyfulheart
Registered user
Username: Joyfulheart

Post Number: 783
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bob, yep, we were. It was that dreadful thick veil. 2 Cor. 3 Amazing Grace has a whole new meaning now when I sing "was blind but now I see." Praise Jesus!
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee

Post Number: 512
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Come to think of it, after reading this discussion, I believe I used to feel kind of sorry for Satan--he was the underdog and her stuff helped me feel sympathy for him...didn't she say somewhere that he wanted to repent, with tears, but it was too late? As if God were being somewhat mean and unforgiving about it. (Or was that some weird dream I had after eating too many Big Franks?)
1john2v27nlt
Registered user
Username: 1john2v27nlt

Post Number: 101
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 - 7:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bob, your post was very insightful. I too realize that the writings caused me to question & wonder & feel certain empathy. But you put it into words.

Nowisee, I sort of remember something like that too.

Joyfulheart, I just reread 2 Cor 3 with much more clarity! And YES! Amazing Grace has much more meaning to me too.

Jeremy, I dislike reading all the EGW quotes 'cause I'm trying to get it all OUT of my brain! BUT I also need to see the deception more clearly. So OK. . .

J9
1john2v27nlt
Registered user
Username: 1john2v27nlt

Post Number: 102
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 - 7:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, & Leigh Anne, I had never put it into a conscious thought - how did she know all that?? But I accepted the 'inspiration' lie. Would that not ENRAGE & INSULT the Holy Spirit?!

NLT Heb 10:29&30
Think how much more terrible the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God and have treated the blood of the covenant as if it were common and unholy. Such people have INSULTED and ENRAGED the Holy Spirit who brings God's mercy to his people.
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy

Post Number: 3371
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nowisee,

Yes, it's in the same book (actually the third paragraph of chapter 1!):


quote:

"After Satan was shut out of heaven, with those who fell with him, he realized that he had lost all the purity and glory of heaven forever. Then he repented and wished to be reinstated again in heaven. He was willing to take his proper place, or any place that might be assigned him. But no, heaven must not be placed in jeopardy All heaven might be marred should he be taken back; for sin originated with him, and the seeds of rebellion were within him. Satan had obtained followers, those who sympathized with him in his rebellion. He and his followers repented, wept and implored to be taken back into the favor of God. But no, their sin, their hate, their envy and jealousy, had been so great that God could not blot it out. It must remain to receive its final punishment." (Spiritual Gifts, Volume 1, page 18, paragraph 1.)




There is sooo much wrong with just this one paragraph.

Jeremy
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 11621
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bob, your post is right on. I've also thought those thoughts. Ellen's writings make Satan a tragic hero of sorts. Poor, benighted Satan...who repented too late.

The Bible NEVER says Satan repented...we are not told his story. We only know Jesus did not come to help the angels (Hebrews 2), and that Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire.

I've also thought that the high-visibility of Satan and the sympathetic presentation of him as beyond hope really is like a "thumbprint" of where her inspiration originated.

Colleen
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter

Post Number: 963
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, according to Ellen White...poor misunderstood Satan and his followers... their "repentance" was not acceptable to God.. If that were true, how could WE ever have the FAITH to believe that OUR repentant prayers were accepted and forgiven ?
Not only was she creating sympathy for Satan because his so called "repentance" was not accepted.... BUT then she makes Satan our scapegoat,, the one taking on all our sins and he is banned from Heaven with all of our sins heaped onto himself. How could that not be meant to create sympathy for Satan ?
Surely she was a "messenger" for Satan and NOT for God.
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 8483
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 - 4:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was just thinking that she was so sympathetic toward satan that he must have been the one to tell her.
Diana L
Bobj
Registered user
Username: Bobj

Post Number: 556
Registered: 1-2006


Posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is totally off topic, but I just wanted to say a big THANK YOU to Richard and Colleen and so many friends on this forum that have been such a blessing.

Six years now, free forever in the Lord Jesus Christ!

Bob
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee

Post Number: 515
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agreeing right along with you, Bob!!!

Jeremy, thank you for finding that quote! I thought so!
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 11635
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hurrah! Six years, Bob!! Praise God!
Colleen
Psalm107v2
Registered user
Username: Psalm107v2

Post Number: 742
Registered: 10-2008


Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just saw this. Happy Anniversary Bob. Looks like we wer both saved in the same month.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | Help/Instructions | Program Credits Administration