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Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 999
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 11:05 am: |     |
I was talking to my MIL (SDA)last night on the phone and it came up in conversation about her great grandson who died last month... she had made the remark at that time (and again last night) that "I dont mourn his death, but that he never had a life" referring to his mental disability. She said when she talked with her Grand daughter (the boys Mom) she pointed out to her that he had never really had much of a life in all his 23 years... and she read to her Isaiah 57 (actually she only read to her the section she wanted to use.....)
Isaiah 57 (King James Version)
1"The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.
2He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness."
She used that text to "show" that (as she put it) even though her grand daughters son had not had much of a chance in this life to HAVE a meaningful life,, that God in His mercy laid him to rest "until the lifegiver comes" to prevent his life from becoming even worse. The boy (young man) did have mental problems, but he had parents and grandparents and cousins who loved him, so I believe he DID have a "meaningful" even if limited life.... he had told relatives that he believed in God. Apparently he was beginning to hang around with some people who were bad influence and she (MIL) is convinced and tried to convince the boys mom that God in His mercy allowed him to die to prevent his life from getting any worse... She said her Grand daughter thanked her for reading that verse to her and it made her feel better. (I am sure it wasnt the verse that made her feel better but the explanation used by my MIL to try to get her to understand it the way she wanted her to understand it) at least I dont get that from those verses......
Once we hung up the phone, I looked up that verse... and I just dont see it.
Ok,, from verse 1 "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come. "
I can see there that it could be saying that someone who is "righteous" could be "taken away" from the "evil to come" but how does "taken away" translate into being put into a grave ?
and then verse 2
"He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness."
I don't see how entering peace and resting in their "beds" could be translated as SDA's put it "resting in the grave".
also it goes on to say "each one walking in uprightness" how can they be walking in uprightness if they are in their graves ???
I dont know if I am totally missing something here or if I am for the first time actually seeing the verse for what it is supposed to really say and so I am confused at trying to look back and understand it from MIL's SDA perspective..? |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 1000
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 11:18 am: | |
Ok, here is the NIV translation that sounds closer to what MIL was saying.... I looked up the KJ before as I was sure as a SDA that is the one she would have been using.
Isaiah 57
1 The righteous perish,
and no one ponders it in his heart;
devout men are taken away,
and no one understands
that the righteous are taken away
to be spared from evil.
2 Those who walk uprightly
enter into peace;
they find rest as they lie in death.
Here is the New American Standard :
1The righteous man perishes, and no man (A)takes it to heart;
And devout men are taken away, while no one understands
For the righteous man is taken away from (B)evil,
2He enters into peace;
They rest in their beds,
Each one who (C)walked in his upright way.
And here is the New King James version.
The righteous perishes,
And no man takes it to heart;
Merciful men are taken away,
While no one considers
That the righteous is taken away from evil.
2 He shall enter into peace;
They shall rest in their beds,
Each one walking in his uprightness.
Sooo which one is correct..? and is it actually talking about the state of the dead ?? Because I just do not see it . |
1john2v27nlt
Registered user
Username: 1john2v27nlt
Post Number: 119
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 11:30 am: | |
I found this a few months after our best friends' twin son was killed in a car wreck at age 28.
His twin brother & 2 others walked away from the wreck.
He was a youth pastor.
Here it is in the NLT (New Living Translation)
1The righteous pass away; the godly often die before their time.
And no one seems to care or wonder why.
No one seems to understand that God is protecting them from the evil to come.
2For the godly who die will rest in peace.
J9 |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 1001
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 12:04 pm: | |
So, the "Godly" who die early will be protected from future trials in life,, I see that... and they will "rest in peace"
BUT I dont see how SDA's can use that verse as a means of "comfort" just because the person who passed was young... if they were not living a life that honored God. And SDA's (at least my MIL) translates verse 2 to mean that they are (as my MIL put it)"resting in the grave until the lifegiver comes". While it is my understanding from that verse that if someone is living a life that honors God and they pass away.. that they will "rest in peace" not in the grave (body only) but have "rest in peace" from the cares of this world with God .
So, which is correct ? (if either) |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 1395
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 2:07 pm: | |
What I'm wondering is how can a person really be "resting" if they aren't even existing - except in God's mind? Rest is feeling a relief from one's cares isn't it? |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 3398
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 1:00 pm: | |
Skeeter,
I agree with you. Notice that it says twice that they are "taken away" (by the angels, into Abraham's Bosom--Luke 16--or, post-Cross, into heaven) and that they "enter into peace."
This contradicts the SDA "state of the dead" teaching.
Jeremy
(Message edited by Jeremy on September 07, 2010) |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 11675
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 11:58 am: | |
This teaching really is much more significant than it appears at first. It shapes the Adventist worldview which basically denies "spirit" and insists reality is essentially physical.
This has grave implications for the nature of the incarnate Jesus and of sin and salvation.
Colleen |
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