| Author | Message | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 810 Registered: 7-2004 |
I had a discussion with my sister yesterday about what we were taught growing up in adventism about confessing your sins. To be honest this has been my biggest area of anguish as an adventist. I believed that I had to confess every single sin or appearance of sin to every individual in my life or I would not be saved. This was a source of torment to me and I was awake many nights in fear of my salvation. Now that I am free from that doctrine, I need to know what it is that normal Christians believe regarding this. I know that we don't want to have anything standing in the way of our spiritual journey, and being bitter, or having wronged someone warrants us to confess. But if you really start searching, you will find many sins that you feel badly about in the past, yet is it a requirement to search out these people over something that is basically silly, yet technically sin? My sister feels like the devil is torturing her again with this. She is reading a book on healing and it involves getting your past cleared up. She is remembering little things, for instance one time her little boys were being teased at school, and she was standing there and spoke very harshly to the boys who were doing this. She feels that this now is bothering her many, many years later. I also remember white lies that I told that I shouldn't have, etc. As an adventist I believed that I would not go to heaven if any of these sins were left unconfessed. I, of course confessed all of my sin to Jesus, but what about going to all these people in all of your life that may have been a victim of your sin, however small? I know that being born again cleanses us from past, present and future sin. Just wanting to know what mainstream Christianity says about confession to another person if you feel you have wronged them. She basically was saying that it feels "stupid" to look up people from 10 to 20 years ago and say "I'm sorry I spoke harshly to you that day". I know exactly what she is talking about, as that is what I agonized about all of my adventist years. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6731 Registered: 9-2006  |
It sounds to me like your sister is on a condemnation merry-go-round without the merry attached. Of course I don't know what all of evangelicalism teaches regarding makeing thing right with others, but I do know what the Bible says, and it says this: Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Now, means now, not future, not past, but now. And she probably needs to rebuke satan from her life, and trust in God. If you are under condemnation yet have no open wound you need to go take care of, then that is not trust or walking after the Spirit. Whatever you were, whatever you learned in that cult, and you have repented of be a part of that cult, then it goes back to now. You don't own the past. Leave it at Jesus feet, it is the filthy garment you came to him in. He will cleanse you by his blood, and it becomes, 'there is therefore now' River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8586 Registered: 3-2004  |
In my Celebrate Recovery and my other 12 step program I have learned that if something is bothering me to write about it and then read it to some one you trust. Because of the things I learned I apologized to my ex, a sister, a work supervisor and others for things I did. I NEVER say what their part was. I just needed to get it out of my head so it would not bother me any more. There is nothing wrong in defending your children. I defended mine and although my older sister did not like the way I did it, it was right for me and my son. The Bible in Matt 5:23,24 tells us "therefore if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something aginst you, leave your gift in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother then come and offer your gift." Hope this helps. Diana L | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 145 Registered: 5-2009 |
Diana L you said it so well & I heartily agree. J9 | ||
| Doc Registered user Username: Doc Post Number: 608 Registered: 2-2003  |
Dear Bb, I would basically agree with River, I think there are times when asking forgiveness from someone may be a good thing, but the main reason for it would be so that broken relationships can be restored. But what you are talking about does not sound like the same thing. I have been taught that the Holy Spirit will convict us of specific sin, even as Christians, so we can confess it and get rid of it. Then, end of story, pick yourself up and move on. 1John 1: 9. But this will be specific, and not things you are trying to search all the way through your past for, just in case you may have forgotten something. However, if you are weighed down under a load of guilt and shame, and can't get rid of it, but you are not even sure of the specific reason, then that is not the Holy Spirit. So to summarise, if you are under "conviction" it may be God wanting you to do something about it, but if you are under "condemnation" it is not from God. I remember I had a friend at Bible college. He was basically a nice guy and a good friend, but he would get into condemnation about stuff he had said to people, and go into torment about it, and finally apologise to the person. He would then feel better, but 99% of the time the people would have no idea what he was talking about. This guy is Evangelical and never belonged to a cult, but he had been badly hurt by Christians in the past, and I think this mindset was probably a result of hurts and rejection in his life, and not the conviction that came from the Holy Spirit. From what you say, it sounds like something similar in the case of you and your sister. You have been "spiritually abused" with a load of bad, shame-and-guilt inducing teaching, which seems mainly designed to keep you away from God, because if you turn to him he may condemn you, when in fact he is the only one you should turn to, so he can forgive you, deliver you from all these lies, and heal you. It is not only Adventism that does this, unfortunately. God wants you to be saved. God is angry with those who are in deliberate rebellion against him and refuse to believe. He is not angry with those who basically love him and want him, but may occasionally mess up. In any case, that is the way I see it. May God bless you, heal you, deliver you and give you peace. Adrian | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 672 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hi Bb, I empathize with your dilemma. Please consider the following text: "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth." 1 Timothy 4:1-3 That was once us! Devoted Adventists, such as we were, are in varying stages of healing from injured consciences (seared with a hot iron). I would err on the side of not digging up the past until/unless you are quite clear on the direction the Lord is leading you in that regard. The old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind. May God bless and guide you. | ||
| Angelcat Registered user Username: Angelcat Post Number: 235 Registered: 11-2008 |
Bb,I can relate to having guilt over unconfessed sin. When I was 6, my parents were good friend with a yung couple with a baby. One day we all went rasperry icking, and I was left in charge of watching the baby, who was taking a nap in the shade. Then my older bother came over, and told me the baby's mother said not to pick the baby up. At some point, i did, can't remember if it was before or after my brother talked to me. I didn't drp the baby, ad i didnt tell anyone, casue i did't want ot get in trouble. Shortly after, my mom told me how even one tiny unconfessed sin would keep you out of heaven. I was still scared ot tell, so I didn't. And for 2 YEARS that "sin" haunted me. I'd wake up crying at night. It was awful. Finally, I told my mom, and she wrote to the lady on my behalf. Then I found out my brother made it up, and the mom hadn't told me not to pick up the baby, so I felt some guilt over unintentionally lying and telling her and my mom she HAD told me... So, it is so great to be free from that!!!!!! it's a horrible way to grow up. I agree with Free...in my case, also, confessing soem things would be impossible withut involving other eople hwo need to make ther onw decisions on confessing sins. It's not my place. Also, in some cases, it would just hurt the other person more. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11720 Registered: 12-2003  |
River and Adrian, very good posts. The load of guilt and shame that continues to haunt us once we have been born again is not from God. Perfect love casts out fear--and when our hearts condemn us, God is stronger than our hearts. Read 1 John 4. I keep remembering what our son Roy said to me on Sunday. He said when he has fears that plague him (he had some pretty significant early childhood trauma that seared feelings of guilt and shame into his heart) there is only one thing to do: decide to believe the word of God. It is in Scripture that we find the truth. As I've mentioned before, I heard a Christian psychologist once say to a young woman with a very serious eating disorder, "Truth is not in your head; it is in the word of God. Until you are ready to put the word of God into your head [by memorizing it], you are not ready to get well." When we are born again, the Holy Spirit convicts us of the things we need to surrender to Him, giving up our right to control them. His conviction feels completely different from "guilt". Guilt was nailed to the cross with the law. The Holy Spirit's conviction may well convince us we need to repent before God for things we have continued to "harbor" in our hearts, but conviction is very different from feelings of guilt and shame. The antidote to obsessively-compulsively agonizing over past wrongs is to decide to hang your faith on the truth in God's word—and to confess your sin if there's sin you haven't confessed. One thing I've discovered is that if I continually return to certain obsessive fears or internal "processing" and internal self-defense, I usually haven't given up to the Lord Jesus my "right" to those things. I have to ask Jesus to reveal to me how I lie to myself and to teach me what is true and to plant me in reality. I remember having to ask God to forgive me for having taught Adventism to dozens of unsuspecting teenagers as an SDA teacher. I could do absolutely nothing about it when I realized I needed to confess, but I asked God to redeem that in their lives. I believe He can do that. And He has let me know that He is redeeming it--Carolyn Macomber was one of those early students whom I taught. And look at her today. God is faithful! We have to be willing to hold loosely the things we think define us, whether those things are good or bad. God's truth now defines us...and He gives us our true selves. Colleen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1434 Registered: 7-2007 |
Bb; the Bible says that we're saved when we believe on Jesus. Notice Ephesians 1:13,14 "...having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance..." (Also notice Ephesians 2:8,9; 2nd Timothy 1:9 and Titus 3:5) Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery: "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more." (John 8:11) He didn't tell her to go ask forgiveness of each person she had wronged. John wrote to the believers saying "...your sins are forgiven you..." 1st John 2:12. He could only have said that if all a believers sins; past, present and future were forgiven. | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 811 Registered: 7-2004 |
Thanks so much for all of the help! I am sharing this with my sister, who I know will appreciate your input. She and I basically studied out together, but of course we still have some old tapes that come back to haunt us!  | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6741 Registered: 9-2006 |
You know, I regret all the people I've screwed over, both inadvertently and from just not caring how it affected them, I regret my whole drunken, hell raising life, I regret breaking my wifes nose, which is still messed up to where she has to smear vics in her nose to breathe every night, A constant reminder of what I was and how I lived. But like I said, that is the filthy rags I had on when I dragged my sorry carcass to the cross, and he cleansed me with his own blood. I still regret I am not a better person than I am, and that I still have so many problems. I regret, I regret, but I am cleansed by the blood of the lamb. Thank you Jesus. I don't have to go to bed full of guilt, shame, and be in so much pain. The devil can't play that tune on me, because I am ever under that flowing fountain filled with blood, you may not like me, you any even hate me, but I am free, thank God I am free. Thank you Jesus. River | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1389 Registered: 3-2009 |
For my friend, River and the others who would like to listen. There is a fountain Hec | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 814 Registered: 7-2004 |
I could listen to that song every day! I love this group. Here's another... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPQQyHjSxOY&feature=related | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 151 Registered: 5-2009 |
Thank you Bb & Hec - I wept & prayed my way through both of these songs just now. To God be the Glory! Great things HE hath done! J9, who is still weeping. . . | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6751 Registered: 9-2006 |
Thank you Hec, it made me cry like a baby, but thank you anyhow. Bd, we used to sing that song in church back in the early seventies, sometimes I long for those days, but we can't go back then, can we now? But those songs of worship endure the times. We need some of those old songs now instead of some of the caterwauling they call worship that has invaded the churches now. Guess I'm just old school, and can't seem to adjust. River | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1395 Registered: 3-2009 |
I do miss the old hymns in church. I like the contemporary music, but I wish they would mix it a little more. Hec | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 815 Registered: 7-2004 |
What I love is when the contemporary artists make a cd of old hymns. It just brings them to life and they are so beautiful. My daughter even loves the old hymns, which surprised me. I guess they are just too beautiful to go away. | ||
| Gorancroatia Registered user Username: Gorancroatia Post Number: 80 Registered: 6-2010 |
There is a joke, in my country maybe in yours to.. When black man comes out of the water what is he like? He is wet. We are all in water, and so we all are wet. I think that ours influence is basicaly sin. Bad by nature, so if you spoken hard to somebody, that is not only what you have done, you done so much more bad stuff that you even not remember. (Message edited by GoranCroatia on September 24, 2010) |
