| Author | Message | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 191 Registered: 5-2009 |
Why does it matter if creation happened on six literal, 24hour days? I know why SDAs must believe that (to uphold the Sabbath), but why must *I* know or care either way? Is this something to be dogmatic about? I'm guessing not... But if y'all can shed some light and give me something to think about and explore further, I would appreciate it. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 1158 Registered: 7-2004  |
God could have created everything in a split second. It doesn't matter whether God created it all in 6 seconds, 6 days, 6 years, 6 million years, or any other time period. There is no way to prove what God did, all we have to go on is His word in Genesis. The account of each creation day says "it was evening and it was morning, one day." To me, that says literal days, but I don't exclude the possibility it could mean something else. As far as scientific proof out there that certain inaminate material is millions of years old, I think that can be explained by the fact that the Bible doesn't say how long of time period was between "The earth was formless and void... Then God said 'Let there be light.' " What I don't believe could possibly have happened, based on what the Bible teaches, is that humans evolved from primates who evolved from lower life forms, etc. It goes against the biblical teaching of no death before sin, and man being God's special creation, specifically formed from the dust and God breathed the breath of life into man. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6826 Registered: 9-2006  |
I think the clue for the six day creation is taken from the words 'And the evening and the morning were the third day. First day, second day, third day, and so on. How could there be an evening and morning without the earth revolving around the sun?  River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 6827 Registered: 9-2006 |
Raven, Ditto. | ||
| Clintonc Registered user Username: Clintonc Post Number: 69 Registered: 10-2007  |
One of the most interesting comments I heard once was from a class my wife was taking at seminary (Southern Baptist Theological Seminary). I sat in to audit it. Her professor said that the Bible is not a science book, but is a book about God, inerrant, and infallible, written by superintending the authors by God, and His interactions/relationships with us humans, and our future with Him. He said that when we try to turn the bible in a science textbook, we get into trouble. Of course this does not mean we disregard the Word for science, it is still our standard for living, faith, and ethics. The bible just doesn't give us all the details of the complex world we live in. I really appreciated his comments, coming from a conservative, theological stance. Time in the universe is not a constant. Time slows down the farther one moves away from the center of the universe. Who's to say God really did create the earth in seven days, but at our end of the universe, maybe one day was billions of years. It doesn't change the fact of who the Creator is, and who He is to us. | ||
| Cortney Registered user Username: Cortney Post Number: 227 Registered: 8-2006 |
I was taught the literal 7day creation week, but I also believe the number 7 represents the 'perfect number' and God had everything perfect and complete by the 7th day, ending Creation. Could each day be longer than literal 24 hour periods? And then what River said with the 'morning and evening', this makes it seem more like literal 24 hour periods. How are these explained? I was taught satan and the angels were created before the Fall of Adam and Eve, and before creation itself. | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 190 Registered: 5-2009 |
Cortney, That's what I remember being taught. J9 | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 30 Registered: 10-2009 |
While I'm just fine with God creating a Mature earth and cosmos in 6 days with a day of rest- it's also possible that God told Moses to include 7 total days that are important to the cosmos from a human standpoint with each seperated by huge gobs of time. It is important to remember though that this isn't a salvation issue...which makes it one that's very interesting to discuss. | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 137 Registered: 7-2010 |
There are two other theories out there. 1) Theistic Evolution = God guided evolution. 2) The Gap Theory = There is a Gap in time between Genesis 1:1 and verse 2. This is to allow for satan to be cast out of heaven and rule the earth and death and destruction reigned because that's who satan is. However, this is the same as saying that death was around, before sin entered the world in Genesis 3. And that God re-created where we live today on top of the bones or graveyard and that's to account for the many millions of year old fossils we have. Poppycock! I'm of the literal Creation crowd and death wasn't around until sin entered the world. But God gave us science in the Bible. Here's proof: The Bible- The earth is a circle {Isaiah 40:22} Science then- The earth is flat Science now- The earth is a sphere The Bible- Innumerable stars {Jeremiah 33:22} Science then- Only 1,100 stars Science now- Innumerable stars The Bible- Free float of earth in space {Job 26:7} Sceince then- Earth sat on a large animal Science now- Free float of earth in space The Bible- Creation made of invisible elements {Hebrews 11:3} Science then- Science was ignorant on this subject Science now- Creation made of invisible elements (atoms) The Bible- Each star is different {1 Cor 15:41} Science then- All stars are the same Science now- Each star is different The Bible- Light moves {Job 38:19-20} Science then- Light is fixed in place Science now- Light moves The Bible- Air has weight {Job 28:25} Science then- Air is weightless science now- Air has weight The Bible- Winds blow in cyclones {Ecclesiastes 1:6} Sceince then- Winds blew straight Science now- Winds blow in cyclones The Bible- When dealing with disease, hands should be washed under running water. {Leviticus 15:13} Science then- Hands washed in still water Science now- When dealing with disease, hands should be washed under running water. The Bible- Ocean floor contains valleys and mountains {2 Samuel 22:16 Jonah 2:6} Science then- The ocean floor was flat Science now- Ocean floor contains deep valleys and moutains The Bible- Ocean contains springs {Job 38:16} Science then- Ocean fed only by rivers and rain Science now- Ocean contains springs The Bible- Blood is the source of life and health {Leviticus 17:11} Science then- Sick people must be bled Science now- Blood is the source of life and health Source: KJV Bible, put together by Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron in the Evidence Bible. | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 198 Registered: 5-2009 |
Ross...6 literal days each separated by gobs of time...hmmmm, that's something to think about too. Hadn't thought of that one. Cortney and J9 - I too was taught that Satan was created before creation and was startled that my assumption was another one of those SDA beliefs I needed to shake off. I talked about it on this thread: http://www.formeradventist.com/discus/messages/11/10169.html | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 408 Registered: 1-2007  |
Let us not forget the Theory of Relativity which states that time is viewed differently depending on speed and where you are viewing it from. God is Light and light travels much faster, as light travels things around it are traveling much slower but aging much faster. So if we were on a train that was traveling at the speed of light and going around the world several times, when we got off we would be much younger than those that did not get on. I'm not saying tha the light we see is literally God, but you get what I'm saying right? Even Peter said to God 1000 years is but a day and vise versa. God created time, and His creation can not hold Him, or contain Him, time does not affect Him. I have heard others explain that the 6 literal days were a view point from Earth, that the universe and all were created but earth was still a cloudy, gassy, watery mess. As God seperated the waters, than the cleared the atmosphere, etc, etc. It's all interesting to hear and learn. Again the Gospel is Repent and Believe in Jesus, not repent and believe in 6 literal days and you will be saved. Paul | ||
| Cortney Registered user Username: Cortney Post Number: 228 Registered: 8-2006 |
Wow, I never thought of it like that! Day 1 meaning the first day ever, it makes sense that all creation including angels would have been created during the 'creation account'. I was taught in the Methodist church that all Heavenly things minus sun and planets, were created before the Genesis account. I was also told by a dear Jewish friend of mine that they believe earth was not the first, but that God had created other worlds and planets before the Genesis account but He was not pleased with them, so moved on and eventually created our earth and man. They also do not believe in the literal 6 day creation, but believe that Moses was given instruction to write the Genesis account in the context of a six day account because the number 7 represents perfection and God was 'perfectly pleased' with the work He had done. Meaning 7 meant all was complete and God was pleased. He was finished with the foundation and He was 'at rest'/peace of mind with His work.They believe this would have made more sense because man would have a better understanding of what creation represents in a set 'time', they believe man cannot fathom God's grasp of time because God does not require time nor does He 'fit' into time, so how can time be explained? But because of sin/death 'time' was established for man not God. They believe all was perpetual until death/sin was born. I'm not sure what to think of this line of reasoning.? | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1447 Registered: 7-2007 |
It says: "and the evening and the morning were the ___ day." Why not just take that literally? It seems really clear to me. If a person supposes that billions of years passed, it suggests that the person believes that they have to make the Bible conform to scientific reasoning. A Christian doesn't have to do that even if they don't understand it all. Plus, it doesn't make sense to have a few million years of dark and then a few million years of light - how could the creatures/plants survive with that? (The "evening/morning" part of the verses definitely say day!) Scientists take as "fact" only what they can test in test tubes, etc. They can't "prove" God in a lab test, so they discount Him as unscientific. A Christian can easily "prove" God through their own experience - I mean a REAL Christian, not an SDA or someone in another cult. They hear Him speaking silently in their awareness and they often sense His awesome Presence. When I was an SDA, now THERE I had to REALLY go by faith to believe in His existance and I wasn't saved either! Another thing too. Not to step on anyone's feelings, but if we suggest millions/billions of years, Adventists will say: "look what happened when they gave up the Sabbath! They've given up creation and embraced evolution!" That's not it at all. Jesus is the Sabbath now. It's no longer a day. (See Colossians 2:16,17 - plus the whole new covenant [New Testament]) Notice too, that it doesn't say "evening/morning" when it talks about God resting the seventh day in the creation account. Now THAT is continual. He's still resting and He invites everyone to enter His rest - Hebrews 3 and 4. Jesus in our Rest now. | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 409 Registered: 1-2007 |
I don't suggest gaps, I don't think Genesis is a book if science or contain the exact process, just tha God created everything fro nothing. Most religions during that time believed many Gods created separately and caused by something. Such as one God created mountains, another lightning, etc. And there was no purpose to their causing these things. Genesis is clear there was a purpose and order. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 11772 Registered: 12-2003  |
Our pastor said that the Hebrew word underlying the word "day" in the creation account is a word that can be (and is in other places in the Bible) translated "eon" or "age" as well. He is not dogmatic about it, but he acknowledges that the actual biblical text could support epochs rather than literal days. His wife is adamant that they're literal days; she argues that if she's teaching Bible to a Muslim woman in the United Arab Emiretz, she has to be able to tell her the world was created in six days—because that's what the Bible says. (It's actually funny to listen to them discuss this together...ha! But Gary is not dogmatic about it, and he insists that the biblical account is true.) Either way, God created exactly as it says in the Bible. Colleen | ||
| Cortney Registered user Username: Cortney Post Number: 230 Registered: 8-2006 |
The Bible says, "God spoke and it was done." That would have to mean God said "mountains" and within less than a second mountains were made. I'm still not fully convinced Adam and Eve were only in the Garden for 'days' though.. especially if the Angels were created during the Genesis account. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 1160 Registered: 7-2004 |
Regarding the creation of angels, it doesn't mention them in the Genesis account, so I assumed they were created at some point before other living things - maybe while the earth was formless and void. Weren't the angels created for heaven and people created for earth? If so, why would the angels have to fit in to earth's creation week? It's stated "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Then who knows how long later, the creation week begins, starting life on the earth. The Bible simply doesn't tell us when the angels were created or the timing of that compared to anything on earth. | ||
| Cloudwatcher Registered user Username: Cloudwatcher Post Number: 201 Registered: 5-2009 |
I'm reading the creation account again, just to get my bearings...and found something I never heard or thought before. I thought Adam was the only ones formed from the ground. Eve was made from the rib (no ground or dust) v. 22. But Genesis 2:19 - "Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name." Is this a surprise to anyone else? (Message edited by cloudwatcher on October 01, 2010) | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1435 Registered: 3-2009 |
If we need the sun for the earth to revolve around it for a day to occur, then there is no first day or second day, since the sun was created on the third dahy. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 1450 Registered: 7-2007 |
Here's a couple links that would be good to look at concerning creation. Answers in Genesis and I.C.R. Institute. These are bonafide scientists' findings: http://www.answersingenesis.org/ http://www.icr.org/ In the Hebrew language, it's the wording combining with "yom;" the word for day, eon, etc. that limits it to a literal day. Hec; light was created on the first day and God divided it from the darkness and "called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night." So yes, there was day and night before the sun. |
