| Author | Message | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1069 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hebrews 10 (New King James Version) 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. J: Christ covers us from sins committed under the OLD Coventant. It is a given , this also includes now and the future as well. Though not stated here. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. J: I note "being" sanctified. As in ongoing. That we are actively being changed, growing, covered by The Blood of Christ. 16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”[c] 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[d] J: The new law of Christ? Not written in letter form? Not remembering their past sins. 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin. Hold Fast Your Confession J: Is this to say, Sins confessed are forgiven permanetly? 19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, J: Confidence to approach. Peace with God? 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. J: Being released from all condemnation, period? 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. J: Faithful to cover us, past , present , future, flaws and all? 25 .... The Just Live by Faith J: Faith in what, in the promises, in the unconditional safety of Christ? Now contrast the above with the following: 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, J: This passage seems to undo everything above. A) Sin Willfully B) After recieving a knowledge of the truth. C) no sacrifice for sin remains. Now what? OK, we all sin willfully in my estimation. I lose my temper, I eat stuff maybe I should leave alone. I offend others, I can be rude, Impure thoughts, fearfulness, all that. Temptations assail us. It is reality. Sin: Define sin without the law? Truth: Contextually, what truth is being addressed here? I have recieved the knowledge of Christ having died as a ransom for my sins. Knowing this does not instantly end sin. Willfully: What is the difference between willfully and weakness, or nature , or defects in our character. We get into mind games here. It leads to legalism. No Sacrifice remains: Back to square one. This is how my historical SDA mind processes this type of passage. It leads me back to self focus and works of the law. It appears to say, if I detect sin, I am not covered. The latter, cancels out the former. 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. J: So much for once saved , always saved. The theory that says , well if you fall away you were never saved to begin with is a cop out. People approach to be saved , some find peace and are able to hold fast, others run into trials , confusions and for some unable to free themselves from condemantion for whatever reason. To be labeled as unsaved is only to confirm and deny any hope of peace. Because to say they were never saved removes from them there hopes in the light of their own reality. It does not meet them where they are. It takes away, that hope that says, yes , God can even save you. Nothing is beyond his power to save. So how do we recieve this teaching. How do we safely contrast it and apply it in our grwoing walk in faith? Jim | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 762 Registered: 1-2007 |
Jim, You have to remember these people were new Jewish Christians and the Judiziers were working hard to turn them back to the OT ways. I am using the footnotes from my Life Application Bible, so I hope these help you answer your questions. 10:Christ came to offer his body on the cross for us as a sacrifice that is completely acceptable to God. God's new and living way for us to please him is not by keeping laws or even by abstaining from sin. It is by coming to him in faith to be forgiven and then follow him in loving obedience. 14:We have been made perfect now we are being made holy. Through his death and resurrection, Christ, once and for all, made his believers perfect in God's sight. At the same time, he is making them holy (progressively cleansed and set apart for his special use) in their daily pilgrimage here. We should not be suprised, ashamed, or shocked that we still need to grow, God is not finished with us. We can encourage this growth by deliberately applying Scripture to all areas of our lives, accepting the discipline and guidance Christ provides, and by giving him control of our desires and goals. 17: The writer concludes his argument with this powerful statement that Gold will never again remember our sins. Christ forgives completely, so their is no need to confess our past sins repeatedly. As believers we can be confident that the sins we confess and renounce are forgiven and forgotten. 18: Yes 19: The Most Holy Place in the Temple was sealed from view by a curtain but Jesus death removed the curtain and all believers may walk into God's presence at any time. See Heb.6:19,20. 22,23,25: Yes 26: When people deliberately reject Christ's offer of salvation, they reject God's most precious gift. They ignore the leading of the Holy Spirit, the one who communicates to us God's saving love. This warning was given to Jewish Christians who were tempted to reject Christ for Judaism, but it applies to anyone who rejects Christ for another religion or, having understood Christ's atoning work, deliberately turns away for it. The point is there is no way for that person to be save, because God has not provided any other name in heaven for people to call on to save them. 27: Deliberate sin. So how do we recieve this teaching? One step at a time. Remember EGW had strings attached to everything she taught. Her string was to confess all our sins and even then we would not truely know if we are forgiven until Christ returns (works). There is a difference between deliberate sins and sins. We have all been born in sin except our Lord and he tells us that if we call on his name our sins are forgiven and he will give us the Holy Spirit to walk with us(no strings attached). Deliberate sin is not listening to that nagging voice in your brain and still going ahead and doing something you know will hurt others regardless of the consequences. The one thing cultic churches whether sda, jw,etc is the use of fear to keep you in their grasp and because of this fear we question everything in the bible because they have put someone between you and the NT writers (implying that the writers did not have it all right and that Jesus had to have these (false) prophets add on to his word and explain it to us. I know this is long but I hope this is some help to you. I was raised with the KJB but have set it aside for a good study bible which has helped me alot. Gail | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3559 Registered: 10-2004  |
Jim:
Jim, did you keep reading to the end of the chapter? What does verse 39 say? Jeremy | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1070 Registered: 5-2007 |
Jeremy, 39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved. J: "We", would be the believer? Shrink back, as in turning back to the law or another avenue such as works? Gail, The setting makes a lot of sense here. Still , not settled about the deliberate sin. To my thinking, people sin deliberately, though perhaps not willingly, or at least with active regret or disdain. Let's take any addiction, food, alcohol or whatever. Maybe it is a frame or attitude on the part of the sinner. Willing to be willing, moving progressively in a right direction. EGW said it is not the occasional deed or misdeed but the general direction of the life. Perhaps , on this point she may have been correct. I normally use a NIV myself, But would like to explore other versions. I like the way the NLT reads but it is a thought for thought work. Thought about the NASB. Your Life Application Bible, what version is that based on? you wrote: (implying that the writers did not have it all right and that Jesus had to have these (false) prophets add on to his word and explain it to us. I think that situation is well nigh universal in all ages and settings. We all seek the advice of counselors who may shed light on things hard to understand. But it is also a risky action. The student rarely knows when they are being taught misleading underpinnings that skew or abberate truths as they really are. It creates these filters and aprehensions that distort and block truth from being clearly recieved. People want feedback, reliable input. We would all like to have our own personal Angel to sit with is and discuss all these things. I wonder if in the latter days there will be magnified understanding, a new out pouring of God's Spirit. I can just imagine the new round of doubts that would cause. Dreams and Visions. Jim | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3560 Registered: 10-2004 |
The NIV is actually a thought-for-thought translation. More literal, word-for-word translations say: "But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul." (Hebrews 10:39 NASB.) "But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul." (Hebrews 10:39 NKJV.) Yes, the "we" is those who believe and have been born again. In the context of the chapter and the book, "shrinking back" refers to Jews (Hebrews) who initially joined with the Christian believers, but were never actually saved (born again), so when persecution by the Jews came, they publicly denied Christ (going through a specific, blasphemous ceremony) and went back into Judaism. This is what verse 29 is referring to when it says: "How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?" (Hebrews 10:29 NASB.) This is the context of the "if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth" in verse 26--it is referring to rejecting the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. That is why it says that, if you reject Christ's sacrifice, "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,"--because Jesus Christ's sacrifice is the only sacrifice available for sins. You are right that we all sin willfully, and the author of Hebrews is obviously not saying that everyone is lost. He is talking about the specific willful sin of rejecting the sacrifice of Christ. Notice he goes on to comfort those he is writing to by reminding them: "But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, 33partly by being made a public spectacle through reproaches and tribulations, and partly by becoming sharers with those who were so treated." (Hebrews 10:32-33 NASB.) In other words, when persecution came, they did not reject Christ and return to Judaism, and he is simply encouraging them to still hang in there. And then he goes on to assure them: "But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul." (Hebrews 10:39 NASB.) This is once saved, always saved. If you have been saved, you will not shrink back and reject Christ's sacrifice, and spit on His blood, and return to Judaism. Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12195 Registered: 12-2003  |
Yes, Jim, Jeremy is right. If you have been born again, you will not turn back. Remember the parable of the four soils? The rocky soil did germinate the gospel seeds, but the soil was shallow and they put down no roots. They were not actually a complete plant. Similarly the weedy soil also germinated the gospel seeds, but they starved to death by the cares and worries of life taking up all the nutrients, and the gospel plants starved. Neither of those two soils produced real plants. To those looking on, at the beginning an outside could not have perceived that those were incomplete plants. But without roots or fruit, a plant dies, and it is not a complete plant. In any local fellowship, there are true born again believers along with others who don't have roots put down into the word of God and others who respond to the gospel but don't nourish themselves with it. They continue to feed on the concerns and worries of finances and troubles and deadlines and demands. They produce no fruit. They are not true plants. But if you have surrendered your mind and life to the Lord Jesus for His purposes and for your good, you will put down roots, and you will not starve the gospel in your life. If you are born again, regenerated by the Holy Spirit, you will not fall away. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7109 Registered: 9-2006  |
Quote: It appears to say, if I detect sin, I am not covered. Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. What I am wondering is if Jim see's these scripture as saying that if we find ourselves committing sin, then there is no more hope for us? Does this mean that if we, as his sheep, for a time, stray away from the fold then we are done for? Colleen says: They are not true plants. But if you have surrendered your mind and life to the Lord Jesus for His purposes and for your good, you will put down roots, and you will not starve the gospel in your life. I disagree strongly with this last statement, again this sounds like a leftover from Adventism. It indicates that our salvation would depend on reaching some quota. I am not saying this to argue with Colleen, I am saying to not misconstrue what she is saying. In reality, Christians do often stray from worship, bible study and starve the gospel in their life for a time, but God knows how to call his sheep back unto himself. John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. Those of us who have been saved for a long time know that God is merciful to draw us back to himself when we stray from his pasture. Peter experianced this when he had denied even knowing Jesus three times. The Bible says that he wept bitterly, When you 'weep bitterly' you know you have been clocked, knocked down hard. I'm just telling you young Christians, there may come a time in your life when you are knocked down hard and you will weep bitterly as Peter did, and as I have done. When I was a young Christian I could not foresee the long years ahead of me, and you cannot see the long years ahead of you, or what lies in your path at some future time. Lets look at a case in scripture, a case in point, which is in John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and WALKED NO MORE with him. These are the ones whom Jesus speaks of in the parables of the soil. There are people who look at weaknesses in Christians to make excuse for not accepting Jesus, as excuse to not follow him, they look at them and spew out the bitterness in their own heart as a way to down others, and as a way to down Christianity. So I wonder, what do the words 'fall away' mean to you? Is it too 'Go back and walk no more with him? Or is it too stray, or stumble and fall? Jim is not the first one to feel false condemnation, nor will he be the last. It says right above the aforementioned scripture: Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Hebrews 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit. But it also says in Peter I 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: Peter I 2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. You got to drink the milk before you can chew the meat. In John Steinbeck's Pulitzer prize winning novel "The Grapes Of Wrath" the mother said, "We kind of grow in spurts." Those words just stuck with me in that they remind me of our Christian life, we kind of grow in spurts. We finally get a scripture to sink in, and thats a spurt, then another one sinks in, and thats a spurt.  River | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1071 Registered: 5-2007 |
Jeremy , You have been most helpful. Thank You. I will most likely go back to a KJV Bible. Like everything else, even that involves a wide range of format/publisher choices. I tried looking on line. I think I will have to go to a Book Store. I was thinking about getting some form of a Study Bible based on the KJV. I need something that at least places the setting or other facts involving the context. Jim | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1072 Registered: 5-2007 |
River, I can't say for sure how I see these warnings. I gather mainly that it is speaking of not accepting Christ as our Saviour and Redeemer. But the passages on Hebrews 6:4-6 kind of worry me too. There is such a thing as falling and getting back up. Repeatedly. There is falling away as in agnosticism and all it's various types and degrees. There is fearful withdrawal from persecution. False religions. There are also many examples of being forgiven repeatedly for our sins in general. Here is the safety net, the platform of hope where a Love relationship can take root. Where being filled with God's inworking Spirit displaces the old and creates a new person. That is the vision. But it is not always the reality in our daily life. We still war against the old man self. Jim | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 8935 Registered: 3-2004  |
Jim, Even Paul had to war against sin in himself. The Holy Spirit comes into our lifes and changes a few things at a time. He does not change all things all at once. If he did that we would not recognize ourselves and I know I probably would not like it. When he does change one thing at a time it gives me time to adjust to it. We will be changing until Jesus comes back. Only then will we be perfect. Diana L | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 763 Registered: 1-2007 |
Jim 02, You asked me what translation my Living Bible is, it is New Living Translation. I have gone back and started reading the OT and realized just how many times God forgave the Jews for their sins, it was time after time. The sda's just do not get the true meaning of the cross. Jesus tells us our sins are forgiven, past, present and future by His blood so that when we stand in front of God we are perfect. Sure we are going to sin, maybe walk away for a long while before coming back but the most wonderful thing is He is there waiting with loving open arms if we truely repent. Here is my take on sin. We are born in sin and will sin. This is why Jesus came to the world to cover our sins. Deliberate sin is where you go out of your way and do not pay attention to that nagging little voice that says do not do that, such as rob a bank, beating up someone, saying mean things just to hurt someone, etc. Jim, you spoke of maybe going back to the KJV, if that is what you like. Why not look into the NKJV or even the NASB (which is as close to the KJV). Gail | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1586 Registered: 3-2009 |
Jim says: The way I understand this is that we are not forgiven repeatedly. This seems to be SDA theology that every time we sin we have to ask forgiveness and if IJ comes and we even forget to ask forgiveness for one sin one is lost. It seems to me that if Jesus on the cross forgave my past present and future sins, then there is only one forgiveness: at the cross. When I sin I repent to fix the relationship with God, but not for forgiveness, that sin was forgiven at the cross. So there is no such seems as repeatedly forgiveness. Am I close enough? Hec | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3561 Registered: 10-2004 |
Jim, The passage in Hebrews 6 is written within the same context as the Hebrews 10 passage. Again, it is necessary to read the whole chapter, to understand the full intent of the author:
Again, this is speaking of those who rejected Christ, "put Him to open shame," and returned to Judaism. But were they actually saved to begin with? Let's read on and find out:
So here, in verse 9, the author states that he is convinced of better things (than what is described in verses 6 and 8) concerning these believers to whom he is writing, and "things that accompany salvation" (such as the description in verse 7). So obviously those persons spoken of in verses 4-6 did not have "things that accompany salvation"--and thus they were never saved. Continuing on, his words are similar to what he says later on in Hebrews 10:32-35:
So "it is impossible for God to lie," and "we who have taken refuge" are to take hold of our "sure and steadfast" hope, the promise of God which He cannot go back on. We will inherit the promised blessing, and we cannot lose our salvation. "This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek." Praise God! Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12200 Registered: 12-2003 |
Context is everything. Without it, we can get so far off track... Colleen | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1589 Registered: 3-2009 |
Jeremy says:
What were the things that those in verses 4-6 had? 1.once been enlightened 2.have tasted of the heavenly gift 3.have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 4.have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, I cannot believe that people who have been partakers of the Holy Spirit were not really saved. That list seems to be the real thing. Then verse six says: "and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame." So it seems to me that there has to be another explanation to this, but that they were not really saved. Based on many other Bible texts, it cannot mean that they lost their salvation, but it cannot mean either that they were not really saved. We need a way to reconcile these two apparently conflicting concepts. Any help? Hec | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12204 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hec, Judas is an example of the type of person described in those verses. He was sent out into the towns of Judah with the other 11 (Matthew10), and when Jesus sent them out, they were to preach, heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, and cast out demons (Matthew 10:7-8). Judas was part of this missionary "tour". Verses 2-4 name the twelve, ending with "and Judas Iscariot who betrayed Him." Then, in verse five, Matthew records, "These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them…" Judas was enlightened. He knew Jesus personally and was taught personally by Him. He "tasted the heavenly gift" in that he lived for over three years with Jesus and experienced not only cognitive knowledge of Jesus' teaching but observed and participated in Jesus' miracles and His mercy and grace. Judas was one of those who served the 5,000 and the 4,000 when Jesus miraculously fed them. He did partake of the Holy Spirit—not in the Pentecost sense, because he was dead by then having hanged himself after betraying Jesus—but the Holy Spirit's power when he went out with the twelve and healed, raised the dead, cleansed lepers, and cast out demons. He could not have done those things without being a partaker of the Holy Spirit's power. And he did taste the good word of God in the words of the living Word, and he definitely tasted the powers of the age to come, the time when Christ's followers would do the work of God by the the Spirit's power because they belong to Christ. The parable of the soils gives us more insight; the plants on the rocky ground and those in the weedy ground did grow, but they died eventually because they were not full plants. The rocky soil yielded plants with no roots, and they couldn't withstand the heat. The weedy soil yielded malnourished plants, and they starved to death and did not produce fruit. For those plants to have germinated at all (in contrast with the hard path from which the birds ate the seeds), the Holy Spirit had to be involved. No one receives the word without the Holy Spirit convicting them and making them receptive to it. But they suppressed the word's work in their lives, and they never became a full plant. Also, some people do "work for God" from impure or false motives, yet God can use even that work, because the power and success of the gospel does not depend upon the the messenger but upon the Holy Spirit's work in the hearer's heart. For example, Paul wrote this from prison in Philippians 1:15-18:
And remember that in Matthew 7:21-23 Jesus said,
So yes, people can participate in "gospel work" from false motives, and God will use them for the sake of those He is saving—but that work does not mean they know Jesus. When Jesus says, "I never knew you," that word is the intimate term that refers to our being born of the Spirit—indwelt by God Himself. The passage in Hebrews above describes those people represented by the soils that germinate "plants", but inside where we can't see they are holding back, refusing to surrender and put down roots, not nourishing themselves as they continue living for the world, etc. It is one of the saddest, most discouraging things that people really can respond to the gospel with joy—and then gradually become uninvolved. They have an emotional or even a cognitive attraction to Jesus and His grace, but when the rubber meets the road and they have to surrender all of them to Him, they side-step. These are the people the author of Hebrews is pleading with. Colleen | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1590 Registered: 3-2009 |
Judas is a good example of why I say that we need to find the explanation of what happens to those who once partook of the Holy Spirit and then leave the way. When one accepts Jesus as a personal savior one is saved. Can we lose that salvation? We keep saying that we cannot, but then Judas (and others) seem to have lost it. Then we say that they were never really saved. Well, were they when they accepted Jesus? If a person accepts Jesus and then leaves and rejects Jesus, was that person ever saved? It seems to me like we either find another explanation than “it was never really saved”, or accept the IJ or at least the SDA teaching that we cannot say that anyone is saved until that person dies or Jesus comes. How do I know that I am saved? NOW? Either I am saved or I am not. But if tomorrow something happens and I go back on Jesus, then was I saved today? In that case there is no way of knowing that one is saved until one dies. Since the Bible says that we are saved, we cannot lose our salvation. Then we need an explanation to those who apparently lose theirs. Hec | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12209 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hec, Judas never "accepted" Jesus. There's no indication that he ever placed his faith in Jesus. He was a disciple, but he never trusted Jesus for eternal life. He was the only disciple who complained, for example, when the woman poured perfume on Jesus' feet at the banquet at Simon's house. He resented her paying homage to Jesus. And even though Peter denied Jesus, he repented—and neither he nor any of the other 11 would have betrayed Jesus into the hands of assassins. God allows people who are not saved to do things in His name. Remember Balaam? And that example from Philippians above? (And Judas...?!) The Holy Spirit works on the hearts of the unsaved; that's how any of us become saved. But He's at work before we are saved. People can experience the Holy Spirit working without placing their faith in the Lord Jesus and accepting His death on their behalf. That's how those plants can germinate in the rocky and weedy soil. The Holy Spirit is at work. The Holy Spirit was at work on the Pharisees in Jesus' day as well. Remember when He asked them, when they accused Him of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub, by whose power they cast out demons? They were casting out demons—and no one can cast out demons by the power of a demon. Jesus stated that fact. But those Pharisees did not believe. God is more gracious with His power than we would be...but the fact that He is at work on and even works through unbelievers does not make the unbelievers saved. Other examples of unbelievers through whom God worked for the good of His people: Cyrus, who permitted the Israelites to return to Jerusalem and to rebuild the wall—the Bible even says God blessed Cyrus for his kindness to Israel—but there's no indication that he became a follower of Yaweh. There was Nebuchadnezzar, whom God called "My servant Nebuchadnezzar". And then there are people like Samson who betrayed his own God-given gift to the Canaanite Delilah. He didn't respect God's instructions—yet he cried out to God at the end of his life and was named in the faith chapter of Hebrews. And Jephtha--the son of an Israelite and a pagan woman who nevertheless did God's will during the time of the judges, leading the Israelites in battle and winning. He offered his own daughter as a sacrifice/offering when he came home from war...and he is in the faith chapter. Being saved means a person believes God's promises and places his faith in Him and acts on His promises...but God can work through people who don't place the weight of their whole lives on Him. Being saved now, in the new covenant, means we have been born of God. It doesn't mean we live godly lives. But it does mean we trust Him and are born again. People who don't trust Him aren't born again. People who do, are. That's the only thing that counts for salvation. When people reject Jesus, they have not been born again. Colleen | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 845 Registered: 7-2008  |
Even Satan believes in God.... Is Satan saved?? Belief alone will save nobody. Therefore...exactly what defines true salvation? ....Animal, the curious one | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1229 Registered: 12-2007 |
Animal, I think Colleen summed it up pretty good with this sentence (emphasis mine) : "Being saved means a person BELIEVES God's promises and places his FAITH in Him and ACTS on His promises.." If we TRULY "believe" we have "faith" IF we believe AND have faith, it will show in the way we "act".The way we live our lives.The relationship we share with God and the way we treat those around us. (back to the basic 2... love to God and our fellow man) Satan "believes" in God, but he certainly does not "ACT" as one who has faith in God as a Savior. Is faith really faith if it is not put into action ? Francie |
