| Author | Message | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 409 Registered: 7-2010 |
The SDA church will take the Sabbath day all the way back to the Creation account. By doing this, they as well as some other churches will say that God's law, better known as the 10C's, has been in effect ever since Creation or even before. For this theology to be true you have to ask and answer these two questions, to this school of thought. 1.) We know that sin is a transgression of the law and that law being the 10C's. With this in mind, the first question you have to ask is, Which one of the 10C's did Adam and Eve break? We know they were evicted from the Garden of Eden for their disobedience, but which law did they break? 2.) Cain murdered Abel after the offering and outside the Garden of Eden. Why wasn't Adam told by God to kill Cain? In Genesis 9:6 Noah was given the command to kill anyone who murdered someone. Why wasn't Adam given the same command concerning Cain? Adam and Eve could bare another male child and did. You see, if the Law has always been in effect these two questions have to be answered, because they don't line up with that school of thought. Which Commandment did Adam and Eve break to get evicted, and why was Cain not put to death for his transgression of the law by murdering Abel? Any thoughts on this? | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1323 Registered: 12-2007 |
The only "law" we are told of in Eden was not to eat of the one tree. We aren't told how long they were in the garden of Eden before they broke that one rule/law... but they did.  That often REALLY bothers me... they were given life, and such a beautiful place to live, so many things they COULD eat..... you woulda thought they would have told the serpent to shut his lying mouth and just turned and walked away.... so sad. But they apparently didnt have the "foresight" to realize how much destruction their actions would bring...and it is easy for us to judge them now with our "hindsight". I wonder sometimes if Adam and Eve ever repented to God for their actions. I hope they did as I think it would be good to see them in Heaven and meet the only 2 people without a belly button. LOL | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1695 Registered: 3-2009 |
Which one of the 10C's did Adam and Eve break? Honor your father and your mother. Thou shall not steal Thou shall not covet At least those three that come right away to my mind. Hec | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 410 Registered: 7-2010 |
The 5th Commandment is about our earthly father and mother. Adam and Eve didn't have an earthly father or mother. How did they steal, who did they steal it from they didn't have a neighbor? Where in the text in Genesis 3:1-6 does it say Eve coveted the fruit? See what I mean? | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 411 Registered: 7-2010 |
I agree Skeeter we have the advantage of hindsight. Had Adam and Eve had that advantage, I believe they would have chose to walk away. Hec, I'm not trying to be difficult in this, but you have to take into consideration Adam and Eve had no earthly parents, nor any neighbors to steal from or covet their stuff. | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1696 Registered: 3-2009 |
The fifth commandemd does not say "Honor your 'earthly' father and mother." It just says "father and mother." "Thou shall not steal from your neigbor" isn't there either. It says, "Thou shall not steal" and since that tree did not belong to them, taking from it was stealing. Coveting: the word is not used in Gen account, but it does say "When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make [one] wise,she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate} Babylon Dictionary says that to covet is to "desire something that belongs to another". So just because the word covet is not in the text, we cannot say the concept isn't. Hec | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 282 Registered: 5-2009 |
Very interesting! Good questions. As I am reading through the bible again & again some things struck me this last time. God says 'listen to my voice,' It is about His words, such as Jer. 6:10 & 19. It was a broken relationship. God repeatedly says through the scriptures 'I will be your God & you will be my people.' That is the vow & the covenant language. In Jer 7:22-24 God says "When I led your ancestors out of Egupt, it was not burnt offerings and sacrifices I wanted from them. 23 This is what I told them: 'Obey me, and I will be your God, and you will be my people. Do everything as I say, and all will be well!' The 'obedience' God wanted was that they LISTEN & DO. Be true & faithful. Trust. His Word mattered. I don't see it as about the law or rules. I see it as about the relationship. Adam & Eve listened to another voice, & believed it over God, their creator. It is always compared to marriage & adultery. Israel was always characterized as whoring after other gods. Is it really about LAW & law breaking? I think not. It is about broken faith & trust. J9 | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 412 Registered: 7-2010 |
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. (Exodus 20:12) There appears to be a distinction between an earthly father and mother and the Lord thy God is there not? Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. (Romans 13:8-10) Who were Adam and Eve's neighbors? J9, very good points! | ||
| Rossbondreturns Registered user Username: Rossbondreturns Post Number: 131 Registered: 10-2009  |
While it may not state honor your earthly father and mother I think we can imply that simply because we know the 10 C's were given not in Eden but at Mt. Sinai. However they did put a god in front of God by putting their selfish needs in front of God's honest and truthful relationship. OF course once again the 10 C's aren't in Creation..or Eden...they were given only to Israel, and not to their forefathers. | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 413 Registered: 7-2010 |
The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day. (Deuteronomy 5:3) Exactly Ross, that covenant was made with Israel. I will however, disagree on the other god comment, there were no other gods. That was part of the deception the serpent was saying. Until the act of disobedience sin hadn't entered the world. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. (Gen 3:5) | ||
| Patallen Registered user Username: Patallen Post Number: 191 Registered: 7-2010  |
I have been dialoguing with an SDA who, of course, believes that the Ten Commandments were in effect in the Garden of Eden. When I asked what commandment was broken, he said they committed idolatry by choosing the tree instead of God. | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 414 Registered: 7-2010 |
I don't think so Pat. Here's the verses from Exodus 20 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20:4-6) This Commandment is talking about making idols. They didn't make a graven image of the tree and then worship it. So you can see why I say, I don't think so. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1325 Registered: 12-2007 |
DLJC :"Exactly Ross, that covenant was made with Israel. I will however, disagree on the other god comment, there were no other gods. That was part of the deception the serpent was saying. Until the act of disobedience sin hadn't entered the world. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. (Gen 3:5)" I dont believe that Satan was telling Adam and Eve they would become as "God's" as in telling them that there was more than ONE God... I believe when he said THEY would become as god's he meant the PLURAL as meaning the two of THEM.That is a BIG difference. | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 416 Registered: 7-2010 |
***I believe when he said THEY would become as god's he meant the PLURAL as meaning the two of THEM.*** I agree Skeeter, and that is how I meant it. There was only God and Adam and Eve, (unless sin was already in the world, which nullifies sin entering the world through their disobedience), then it was part of the deception that is mentioned in verse 5. Because until sin entered the world there would have only been God, Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve didn't see themselves as gods with a little "g". But that was what the serpent was proposing that they would be as gods. Again only after sin had entered. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12434 Registered: 12-2003  |
It all started when Eve discussed what God said with the serpent instead of just obeying what God said.It's the same problem we have today with unbelieving, liberal theologians: they discuss the word of God instead of submitting to it; they put themselves OVER it instead of UNDER it. That's what Eve did; she allowed the serpent to entice her into a discussion of what God meant instead of obeying what God said and refusing to "go there" with the serpent. Colleen | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 418 Registered: 7-2010 |
Good point Colleen! Here is what God said to Adam in Genesis 2 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Genesis 2:15-17) This is confirmed to be the commandment they broke in Genesis 3 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? (Gen 3:9-11) A simple command not to eat from this particular tree. That's the only Commandment God gave Adam. There was no need for the 10C's in the Garden of Eden. There was only God, Adam, and Eve. | ||
| Christo Registered user Username: Christo Post Number: 259 Registered: 2-2008 |
Scripture says that Adam was not deceived, but that Eve was. Could it be that Eve just brought home some groceries and Adam did eat. Eve was the first person to believe that analogues were just as good or better than the real thing. Thank you Jesus for being the tree of life, Chris | ||
| Dljc Registered user Username: Dljc Post Number: 420 Registered: 7-2010 |
**Eve was the first person to believe that analogues were just as good or better than the real thing.** Good point Chris! | ||
| 1john2v27nlt Registered user Username: 1john2v27nlt Post Number: 284 Registered: 5-2009 |
DLJC #418 - The 'commandmment' they broke was God's spoken word to them. It was about His voice, His Words. We tended, because of our SDA backgrounds to always read 'commandments' as "LAW". So too in the NT or NC Jesus says if we love HIM we will OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS - As SDAs we took it back to "LAW" because that was our FORMER frame of reference. But really Jesus is saying Obey MY Commands - or obey MY VOICE. "My sheep know MY VOICE." And His commands are easy, His burden is light - He says LOVE one another. Be in relationship, in dialogue with Me. LISTEN to ME. I see continuity in this from Eden to Revelation. For me at least, this is a huge insight. J9 | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12438 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, J9! Great summary--what a great insight. Colleen |
