| Author | Message | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 964 Registered: 7-2004  |
It sounds like a simple question. And any well-trained SDA can quickly respond with 1 John 3:4 and sit back satisfied that they have "correctly" answered the question. But that reply falls short of a full understanding of sin. There are additional verses in Scripture defining sin: I Jn 5:17a All unrighteousness is sin, Rom 14:23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin James 4:17 Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin. None of the 10 commandments are discussed here, yet I think we would all agree that these people sinned: Matt 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' 44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' Rom 5:12-14 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. There is a tendency that I see among many legalists. They downplay the Holiness of God, they reduce sin to a few little behavioral rules. Or they completely change the meaning of sin. Sin only refers to intentional, planned acts. Or sin only refers to habitual acts. If we sufficiently reduce the Holiness of God, then we can become righteous rather than just being called righteous. This all flows from misunderstanding sin. Sin doesn't occur only in our actions, but also in our words, and even our thoughts. It isn't only what we did, but it is the good that we failed to do. It isn't until we begin to recognize the true depth and magnitude of our ongoing sin that grace really begins to have meaning. Consider that the command given to Christians is to love others as Christ loved. No one comes close to meeting that standard! When we experience God's mercy on a daily basis, knowing both our sin and His forgiveness each and every day, we experience the joy of the Gospel anew each day. When we realize how many times God forgives our same sins, it produces patience on our part towards the sins of others. When we start to grasp just how wide the difference is between our worthless righteousness and God's perfect righteousness, only then do we begin to fathom just how big of gift it took to cross that divide. When people believe that they are only being forgiven for a little bit, their thankfulness matches that amount of forgiveness. The same is true for those who understand that they are continually being forgiven for a great deal. | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 593 Registered: 7-2005 |
@Ric
Would you say that we "habitually" sin as far as this standard is concerned? If true, would not this "habitual" sin qualify us all as sinners? Gabriel | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12546 Registered: 12-2003  |
I love Romans 8:10:
The Holy Spirit brings our dead-in-sin spirits to life when we believe and place our trust in Jesus (Eph. 1:13-14, 2:1-6), and the Father transfers us out of the domain of darkness into the kingdom of His beloved Son (Col 1:13). So our bodies are sinful and full of sinful tendencies until we die and then receive our glorified bodies at the resurrection. Meanwhile, faith in the Lord Jesus brings our spirits to life, and we are eternally alive, even though we live in dead bodies, when we are transferred out of the domain of darkness. Our bodies are doomed...we can't get rid of the sin and sinful penchants we have (Romans 6), but this physical chain to sin we carry doesn't keep us from being eternally alive when we're in Christ. Nor does it keep us from gradually learning to submit our sinful tendencies to Him, bit by bit, because the Holy Spirit is in us (Romans 8:11). Yup--I'd say we ALL qualify as sinners...and when we're made alive in Christ, we're counted as righteous, even though our physical tents are still sinful. It's a mystery; it's something only God can accomplish! We're sinners (still), saved by grace! But our true identity is no longer "sinner" in God's eyes. In His eyes, if we are in Christ, our identity is "child of God" and "heir of God", "Redeemed", "Righteous", and so on...yet these identities are those of Christ Himself...credited to us. Amazing! Colleen | ||
| Animal Registered user Username: Animal Post Number: 923 Registered: 7-2008  |
Sin is when we say no to rootbeer and popcorn as health food. | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 545 Registered: 4-2007 |
Of course root beer and popcorn are healthy, it's Vegan. (Message edited by JONVIL on May 02, 2011) | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 967 Registered: 7-2004 |
Yes Colleen, the now/not yet, sinner/saint reality that we live in this side of our glorified bodies is both wonderful and frustrating. Being counted righteous doesn't negate our need to recognize and confess our sins. But it is important to understand that it is not our recognition and confession that brings forgiveness. That has already been fully completed in Christ and applied to us through faith. I have run into this hurdle when discussing the concept with SDAs before. If we don't have to confess our sins in order to be forgiven, why would we ever do it. The shortest answer is because Scripture instructs believers to do so. But I think there is a longer answer as well.one that I alluded to in the OP. The recognition and confession change us. It brings us back to the cross repeatedly. It increases the joy of the Gospel. And it appears, at least to me, to be a tool that God uses in changing our hearts. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12549 Registered: 12-2003 |
I agree, Rick. I see that "change" effect at work in me, for sure. Recognition and confession really do make me aware of attitudes and even deep beliefs that I have to surrender in order to live in submission to the Lord Jesus instead of in reaction to my worldview! Colleen | ||
| Grace1958_m Registered user Username: Grace1958_m Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2011 |
Hi I am new to this forum. (My wife's posts as Grace1958_f, my postings are as Grace1958_m) I left the SDA religion 30+ years ago. I am born again. (I am not a journalist but would like to be a part of the forum). I summarize from this thread the following: Sin = death. Our flesh has to die when we are made alive (born again) in Christ. When we do accept his free gift of salvation through faith our focus is on Jesus Christ (his attributes, his moral standards, etc.) and in that process we let go of our sinful selfish ways and embrace his ways. Romans 5:21 For by law we have knowledge of sin so that as sin reigned in death, even so, grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1376 Registered: 12-2007 |
Welcome  | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9169 Registered: 3-2004  |
Welcome Grace 1958_m, Glad you are here. Diana L | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2816 Registered: 8-2004  |
Welcome! | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1754 Registered: 3-2009 |
Welcome to the forum Grace m(ale)? Hec | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12552 Registered: 12-2003 |
Welcome, Grace1958-m! So glad you checked in! No need to be a journalist...just share your thoughts! Your post above sums it up! Colleen | ||
| Vjs Registered user Username: Vjs Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2011 |
Just to let everyone know that I have changed my user name so people don't get me confused with my wife. It is now VJS instead of Grace 1958_m, and yes, I think *m* was the identifier for *male*. It is nice to be part of this family. Victor | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12554 Registered: 12-2003 |
Colleen | ||
| Mkfound Registered user Username: Mkfound Post Number: 74 Registered: 1-2011 |
Welcome Victor | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9171 Registered: 3-2004 |
I welcomed you before but now I can go by a male name. Diana L | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 846 Registered: 5-2009 |
Hi Vjs! I'm glad to have you share your experiences and insights as we discuss issues and support each other. | ||
| Gregkleinig Registered user Username: Gregkleinig Post Number: 35 Registered: 12-2010 |
Gday bloke. (Victor) That is as aussie a welcome as you can get. Back to sin. Is it also correct to say that sin is what we are. Without Jesus we are the personification of sin. Not evil however, hopefully. If that makes sense. Isn't that what Paul cried out for; "who can deliver me from this body of death?" Colleen. You said; "So our bodies are sinful and full of sinful tendencies until we die and then receive our glorified bodies at the resurrection." I am still trying to get my head around 'not soul sleep.' Is the implication that our souls aren't sinful? I must admit to confusion over this issue. The confused aussie. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12556 Registered: 12-2003 |
Greg, our spirits are either dead in sin or alive in Christ. (See Ephesians 2:1-10.) We are born dead in sin; our spirits are disconnected from the life of God as our inheritance from Adam. We are "by nature objects of wrath" (Eph. 2:3), condemned (or judged) already (John 3:18). We are born with mortal physical bodies, doomed to die because of sin, and with spirits that are dead in sin. When we believe in the Lord Jesus, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13-14), and we pass from death to life (John 5:24). The Holy Spirit brings our dead spirits to life. Now, the fact that they are "dead" does not mean they are not existent. They exist, but they are not "alive"; they are dead in trespasses and subject to the prince of the power of the air (Eph. 2:1-2). Romans 8:10 explains that when the Spirit of Christ is in us, our bodies are dead because of sin, but our spirits are alive because of righteousness. Because Jesus rose from death, when we accept His sacrifice for our sin, His resurrection life is given to us by His indwelling Spirit, and we pass from death to life; we are transferred by the Father from the "domain of darkness" into the "kingdom of His beloved Son" (Col 1:13). We are saved in the same "order" in which Adam and Eve fell: when they sinned, they DID die: their spirits died. They lost the life and intimate connection with God. Their bodies died later. When we are saved, our spirits come to life first, and later, at Jesus' return, we receive our glorified, eternal bodies. So the Spirit of Jesus indwells our still-sinful and mortal flesh on this earth when we are saved. Our spirits are either dead in sin or alive in Christ. If we have placed our faith in Him, we are alive, and our spirits will be forever with the Lord. Read Ephesians 1 and 2 and Romans 8, then read 2 Cor. 5:1-10. These will help! Colleen |
