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Archive through May 23, 2011Michaelmiller20 5-23-11  12:19 pm
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Cindy
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Username: Cindy

Post Number: 867
Registered: 7-2000
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris,
I've also thought at times I'm "overly sensitive to sabbatarianism of any stripe"...

But I even get weary with those who teach that we, as believers in Jesus, "need" to choose a day to be our "sabbath"...any day! Fine if they want a special day of rest, but don't give the reason why a "sabbath" is "needed" as it being set up as a God-given weekly cycle at Creation and then verified by God in the 10 Commandments. Oh dear....

Seeing the clarity and simplicity of Jesus as our final Sabbath Rest I find it frustrating to find the widespread belief in Christianity of going back to the 10 Commandments as a God-ordained guide even for New Covenant believers. I think it really does set some people up for the deception of Adventism...as in, if you're going to take a rest day, why not at least get your day of rest/worship right!?

Jesus is so much more! I could never retreat to a sabbath "day" now with the Reality of Christ always present.

grace,
cindy
Chris
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Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michael,

I really can't tell you as I downloaded all daily podcasts for April and May. I listened to about a dozen over the past few days and delete them when I'm done with them. So it was within the last couple of months is all I can say for sure. If it helps, I think it was in the podcast where he debuts his "You've Got and 'A'" approach to evangelism.
Cindy
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Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michael,
I listened to the first part of the 10/22/10 podcast for his words on the Sabbath (I quit when he went on to answer a purgatory question)...

Anyway, it was encouraging to hear him explain that we are not under the Sabbath law at all as believers in Christ...we have just a general New Covenant admonition given to not forsake the assembling of ourselves with fellow believers. It was refreshing!

grace,
cindy
Hec
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Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now that you mention the New Covenant and the parties involved. Is there a book, a Web site, some resource that I can get to try to understand this aspect of the NC? Is it between the Father and the Son because the Son represent the entire human race? In that case would it lead to universalism? This is one topic where I am stupidly ignorant and would like to understand it.

Thanks,

Hec
Colleentinker
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Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris, I agree with your reaction above. I'm also probably "overly sensitive", yet I see that Paul didn't lead with the law when he preached to gentiles, either. If Jesus fulfilled the law, He fulfilled ALL its functions, including the function of pointing out sin. Of course, I believe that the law, as is the case with the whole Bible, is useful for teaching, reproof, and correction...but in the NC, the Holy Spirit is the one who convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16).

Hec, Jesus keeping the covenant with the Father isn't universalism. Jesus is the one Mediator between God and Man (1 Tim 2:5). I'm going to quote here some comments from one of our FAF Study Guides about this passage:

quote:

Paul wrote in 1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.”

This text describes what Jesus did and why we need Him. First, Paul re-establishes the fact that there is one God—and we know that one God is triune: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There is only one mediator—only one person who bridges the gap and works out an agreement between opposing parties. In this case the estranged parties are God and humanity. Jesus, the second person of the Trinity, is God—the holy One whom we cannot approach because of our sin. Yet this holy person became a man—He took on the identity of the party who separated from the Holy God. He became a man while still retaining His full identity as God in order to mediate a resolution between God and man.

Only He could do this job. He represented both parties in Himself. He came and showed estranged man the true nature and justice and holiness of God, and He took on human flesh in order to pay our human debt. He, as a man, gave Himself as a ransom for all of us—He died to pay His own required price for sin so we could be restored to fellowship with the Triune God. Jesus’ willing ransom of Himself was the testimony—the cosmic declaration of God’s love and justice and goodness. In His death and resurrection Jesus declared God’s intention and love for fallen man, and He made a way for fallen man to be redeemed.

Jesus—the one mediator between God and man—overturned our curse and death and restored us to relationship with God if we accept His sacrifice. More than that, when we accept Jesus’ sacrifice for sin on our behalf, we are adopted as God’s own children, and we become heirs of all that is His. This status is different, more intimate, than even the pre-fall status of Adam and Eve. We are not just redeemed creatures; we are adopted as God’s own children. He shares His life and His Spirit with us, and His only begotten Son shares our humanity. He has fully bridged the chasm that sin created between us and God. He has become one of us so we can become His eternal brothers and sisters claiming God as our true Father!




When we receive the Lord Jesus, we are indwelt and sealed with the Holy Spirit. Our lives are then hidden with Christ in God (Col 3:3). All that Jesus did as a man on earth and as our Sacrifice and atonement becomes ours at that moment. God adopts us and credits to us ALL of Jesus' perfection, obedience, holiness, righteousness, and power. It is ours—not intrinsically ours (it's not "imparted" to us) but it is credited to us for our benefit (imputed to us) and for God's glory.

Jesus' perfect life and infinite death and resurrection are what become credited to us and benefit us when we are in Christ. His promises—His blood of the new covenant—is what eternally keeps us in relationship with the Father. He is our High Priest forever, and His blood is sufficient for us for eternity. His IS our promise...His are the "better promises" that make the new covenant superior to the covenant with Israel which depended on Israel's promises to do all that God commanded.

They couldn't do that. That covenant was conditional...and it could not be permanent. Israel's promises could not stand. Jesus' promises and perfection substitute for our lives when we are in Him...but not unless we are in Him.

Colleen
Bree_w
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Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I shared this link on facebook, and received some interest in dialogue. If anyone could point me in the direction of EGW's views on the unborn and mentally disabled, it would be very helpful.

Thanks!
Jeremy
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Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hec,

Well, I would have a problem with saying that the Father and Son are two parties involved in the New Covenant, or the Abrahamic Covenant. In fact, Galatians 3 specifically says that the Abrahamic Covenant had only one party, and that God is only one party:


quote:

"15Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it.
16Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, 'And to seeds,' as referring to many, but rather to one, 'And to your seed,' that is, Christ.
17What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
18For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.
19Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.
20Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one." (Galatians 3:15-20 NASB.)




Jeremy
Hec
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Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Then who are the parties involved in the NC? Could you direct me to some resources where I could gain understanding in this subject?

Hec
Flyinglady
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Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 4:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hec, Mark Martin's Ex adventist outreach has a very good article on the New Covenant. You can get to it from FAF.
Diana L
Colleentinker
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Post Number: 12627
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Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 5:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

God is One, Hec. Jeremy's point is that we can't actually say there are two separate beings involved. I would agree with that.

At the same time, Jesus, as the one Mediator between God and Man (1 Tim 2:5) represents in Himself both God and Man. His humanity is our substitute, and He does on our behalf everything required for us to be reconciled to God.

Yes, it's true that God Himself cut the covenant made to Abraham, although there were two objects that moved among the sacrificial pieces. I would not want to suggest that there were two parties involved, though...because God is One. But I can see the furnace and lamp foreshadowing Jesus (representing Abraham) and the Father working together—although they are not separate beings but two Persons.

It's the same ol' problem: God is One, and we cannot separate them. Yet there are three Persons in the One, and Jesus actually took human mortal flesh to be the One Mediator between God and Man. The Abrahamic covenant did not have a human component in it at all; it was entirely ratified by God who expressed Himself in two symbols.

The New Covenant, though, is still ratified by God alone...but the Son worked out the requirements of the covenant in human flesh, paying for human sin with human blood—yet infinite blood because He is God. He substitutes for all humans who enter the covenant because of and in Him.

In Jeremiah 31:31-33 and Ezekiel foretell this new covenant. Here's what Ezekiel 36:25-27 says about this:

quote:

I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.




So when we accept the Lord Jesus and His sacrifice and resurrection on our behalf, we enter the covenant IN Him. We are hidden in Him, and God credits His death and righteousness to us and makes us alive in Him. God does everything required in the covenant, and the Father accepts the Son's human life and death and resurrection on our behalf—and He sends the Spirit to place His life and power in us and make us members of Christ's body.

Colleen
Heretic
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Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I went to the Deeper Conference in Cincinnati last year and listened to Todd talk for an hour about Jesus being the fulfillment of the entire Old Covenant, including the Sabbath, that it was the sign of the OC that was passing away. Also heard an interview he did with R.W. Glenn when Wretched was still called Way of the Master Radio which was ALL about the Sabbath and it's fulfillment in Christ.
Gorancroatia
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Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HI to all from Goran Croatia ! Just drop by, glad that you are ok and working.
I did not read all posts, but just listen The Radio of Colleen on SDAism. Very impressed! Colleen honest and in-dept answers was powerful. In the end radio-man really had experienced a cognitive dissonance! SDAism is insidious. If there were more time on ether I think conversation will go touch even the spiritism core stuff. It is hard to testimony to Adventists, because they are spirit taken. Demon is giving all right answers to keep the spin going.
In Act 16:16 One day, when we were on the way to the place for prayer, we met a slave woman. She had a spirit that enabled her to predict the future. She made a lot of money for her owners through fortune-telling. 17 She began following Paul and us, shouting, “These people are servants of the Most High God! They are proclaiming a way of salvation to you!” 18 She did this for many days.This annoyed Paul so much that he finally turned and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ, I command you to leave her!” It left her at that very moment.

Like SDAs Spirit there is true proclaiming but still it was an unclean spirit! That is core of insidiousness.
God bless all!
Colleen if you will have plans to visit Croatia, we can do some backup!
See: http://prkc.hr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=237&Itemid=48
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 13261
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good to see you, Goran! You are right that the spirit of Adventism continues to put a spin on truth to keep its victims deluded.

How have you been?

Colleen
Gorancroatia
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Username: Gorancroatia

Post Number: 165
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Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 10:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In struggle... but still love Jesus. Croatia is on Balkans, so you must heard that here is never bored. Always some crises..
Going to Reformed church on Sundays...
With family SDAs... You know.
I wrote one article titled: Sweet lie in Seventh Day Adventism - http://prkc.hr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=235&Itemid=58
It was well accepted bay Baptist.. but problem in Croatia, is that mayor RC dont deal with SDAs... they dont have time for that... have their ones problems... SDas are just a minor sect. For my life SDas are MAYOR sect!

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