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Cloudwatcher
Registered user
Username: Cloudwatcher
Post Number: 480
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 8:32 am: |     |
This is something I've been thinking about the last few weeks. Someone gave me a CD of a sermon by Jon Pauline (SDA) on judgement. I listened to it because I like to be tortured, I suppose. There was so much wrong with it, but I won't get into it here.
Something about what he said, struck me though, and I realized that I grew up thinking this too. He reinforced the notion that we are all God's children...all of humanity is a child of God. Is that biblical?
I think this concept is the foundation to why I never really internalized what it meant to be loved by God.
Here are my questions.
First, is everyone God's child?
Does God relate to believers and unbelievers in the same Fatherly way?
Oh..I have so many more questions but I'll just leave it there for now ... |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 1462
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 8:55 am: | |
While I would very much LIKE to believe that we are ALL God's children.... what about this verse ...?
John 8:43-45
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
43 Why do you not understand [a](A)what I am saying? It is because you cannot (B)hear My word. 44 (C)You are of (D)your father the devil, and (E)you want to do the desires of your father. (F)He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because (G)there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks [b]a lie, he (H)speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of [c]lies. 45 But because (I)I speak the truth, you do not believe Me." |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 1463
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 10:40 am: | |
ohn 8:43-45
English Standard Version (ESV)
43(A) Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot(B) bear to hear my word. 44(C) You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires.(D) He was a murderer from the beginning, and(E) has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him.(F) When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 1464
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 10:42 am: | |
John 8:38-40
English Standard Version (ESV)
38(A) I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard(B) from your father."
You Are of Your Father the Devil
39They answered him,(C) "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, (D) "If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, 40but now(E) you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth(F) that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 1465
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 10:46 am: | |
Those are the only ones I have found that say someone other than God can be our Father.
So.... I guess if we try to kill those who are trying to help us, and/or if we refuse to hear the truth of God's word when it is given to us.... we are in danger of having the Devil as our Father instead of God... ? |
Grace1958_f
Registered user
Username: Grace1958_f
Post Number: 66
Registered: 3-2011
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 1:41 pm: | |
Cloudwatcher: IS EVERYONE GOD’S CHILD?: When I think of the phrase *we are all god’s children*, The song lyrics I used to teach my very young Sunday School students many years ago, resounds in the back of my mind: “Jesus loves the little children, ALL the children of the world, red and yellow black and white, they are precious in his site: Jesus loves the little children of the world.”
I believe that since God created every human being, in a sense we are God’s children. I also believe we are born with an inherited (from Adam and Eve) sin debt that we cannot pay, and that is why Jesus came to earth, and gave his life as payment for our sin debt providing us the opportunity to live eternally with God by simply believing in him.Romans 10:8-10 and John 3:16
I believe we have a choice we must make and that choice is who are we going to serve? God, who provides eternal life, or Satan, who does not provide eternal life? 1 John 5:11-12 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. We are faced with the choice of becoming eternal children of God by accepting his son Jesus Christ or rejecting his gift of salvation and following after Satan who’s destination is hell.
I appreciate the insight from Skeeter’s reference to John 8:43-45 disclosing what Jesus was saying in distinguishing between the *devil, father of lies* and *God*. Additionally, those who do not have the Spirit of God living within them, will not understand His words and that leaves room for the *father of lies* to weave deceptive teachings. John 8:43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. Without His Spirit residing within us, the bible is not understandable. 1Cor 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
DOES GOD RELATE TO BELIEVERS AND UNBELIEVERS IN THE SAME FATHERLY WAY?
My most favorite chapter in the entire bible is 1 Corinthians 13 wherein I believe God has shown me an aspect of his love that He applies to everyone (believers and unbelievers) vs 4-5 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Loves does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. . . v13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
God’s love is totally uncomprehendable and immeasurable. Psalm 100:5 For the Lord is good and his love endures forever; his faithfulness continues through all generations. God’s nondiscriminatory love for everyone is clearly revealed in John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 1950
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 2:15 pm: | |
I don't I believe that every human being is one of God's Children, at least not in the sense of receiving salvation. After all, not everyone will be saved. Whenever the subject of God's love comes up I can't help but think of the verse "Jacob I loved and Esau I hated".
Malachi 1:2-3 declares, “’I have loved you,’” says the LORD. But you ask, 'How have you loved us?' ‘Was not Esau Jacob's brother?’ the LORD says. ‘Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.’”
I found this article here~ http://www.gotquestions.org/Jacob-Esau-love-hate.html
I truly believe that while God's love is immeasurable, this doesn't mean that he can't do anything else. He still has the ability to hate and reject, and even punish (ever read the book of Isaiah?). He is sovereign. I also believe that the "world" in John 3:16 does not mean every single man individually, but people of all nationalities, compared to only the Jews. When Jesus came and died on the cross, he saved both Jews and Gentiles (everyone else).
That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
 Leigh Anne |
Rossbondreturns
Registered user
Username: Rossbondreturns
Post Number: 186
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 2:54 pm: | |
IMHO while we are all created by God...we must be born again to be children of God. |
Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 793
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 3:24 pm: | |
See Romans 9. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 12699
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 4:21 pm: | |
Also John 1:12:
quote:But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
The teaching that everyone is a "child of God" denies the clear biblical teaching that we are born in sin, in the domain of darkness (Eph. 21-3; Col 1:13). Jesus was very clear to Nicodemus that we have to be born again to "see", much less "enter into" the kingdom of God (John 3:3-5). Children are born into their homes and kingdoms. Humans are born into the domain of darkness.
But when we believe, we are transferred into the kingdom of God's beloved Son (Col 1:13), and adopted as God's children (Romans 8:14-16).
Everyone is God's creation, and He loves all..He so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son. But not all are His children.
When people don't realize their true depravity, their spiritually dead status, they have no drive to be born again. People hate the Light because their deeds are evil; but the Light is what exposes their deeds so they can be changed.
Colleen |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 1955
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2011 - 10:42 am: | |
Romans 8:16-17 says: The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
Verse 9, a little earlier, says that if anyone doesn't have the Spirit, they don't belong to God; so obviously this is talking about people who've been born again, born of the Spirit. |
Grace1958_f
Registered user
Username: Grace1958_f
Post Number: 67
Registered: 3-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2011 - 10:45 am: | |
I am so glad my post above is apparenly a springboard of some excellent followup points, specifically the importance of receiving Him in order to become “a child of God.”
Keeping in mind there are innumerable people at different places along the journey of their lives who observe this forum, my hope and my prayer is that no one would consider a mindset that their name could be stuck on God’s *Hate* list as Malachi 1:3 - but that God’s love for the world via John 3:16, the message of salvation through the redemptive blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, is meant for everyone and anyone. I would encourage anyone who has not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior to do so as per Romans 10:8-9. It is a free gift of love with a destination of eternity with the God who loves you more than any other person could ever love you.
Making the decision to take that step of salvation is what transforms us into *a child of God.* 1John 3:1 How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called *children of God!* And that is what we are!
As Father’s Day approaches tomorrow, I am thankful for the Spirit God has placed in my heart that cries out , “Abba, Father.” . . . Father God, I thank you for adopting me as your child, into your family and making me an heir of yours. Thank you God for the awesome love demonstrated through your son taking the punishment for my sins to the point of his death. Thank you God for resurrecting Jesus from the dead in completion of the provision for me to be able to believe and be saved. Psalm 118:29 Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good, his love endures forever.
Happy Father’s Day, God - to the Best Father ever!!!!
Love, Your Adopted Child |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 1116
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2011 - 8:04 pm: | |
Great post Grace! |
Cloudwatcher
Registered user
Username: Cloudwatcher
Post Number: 482
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2011 - 4:47 pm: | |
Thank you all for your responses.
Thanks Leigh Ann for talking about God's love. Someone recently told me that God instructs us to love our enemies, so we can only assume that God loves His enemies too... Doesn't mean they're His children, though.
I don't begin to understand it all... How He can simultaneously love and hate.
I think the problem for me in understanding this as an SDA was that I couldn't understand (since my salvation hung in the balance of the IJ) how God could say that nothing at all could ever separate me from His love. I felt separated by His love and acceptance when I wasn't "living up to the light that I had."
It made me experience a very distant conditional God and a very disconnected Father. |
Wiredog
Registered user
Username: Wiredog
Post Number: 176
Registered: 8-2010
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2011 - 7:21 am: | |
Hi Delina,
I wrote in the fly leaf of my Bible verses that specifically said who are "God's Children" I am still in the process of reading for more so I know this is not complete and there are many more. For my readings I used the NLT but these I provide from the NASB.
"everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him" 1 John 2:29
"practices righteousness loves his brother." 1 John 3:10
"speaks from God's viewpoint" 1 John 4:1-6
"love one another (i.e, other believers)" 1 John 4:4-7
"confesses Jesus is the Son of God" 1 John 4:13-15
"overcomes the world through faith and observes His teachings" 1 John 5:2-5
"does not make it a practice to sin" 1 John 5:18
"are of faith" Galatians 3:7
"lead by the Spirit" Romans 8:14
(Message edited by wiredog on June 20, 2011) |
Cloudwatcher
Registered user
Username: Cloudwatcher
Post Number: 483
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2011 - 4:44 am: | |
Thanks for the Scriptural references, Wiredog. That pretty much makes it clear. |
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