| Author |
Message |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2080
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2011 - 12:41 pm: |     |
Another thing Jim; no matter how hard a person may try to obey the law; their heart is totally unchanged! So actually the law is meaningless except to point out sin.
Jesus changes our "wanters" when we get saved! |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1283
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2011 - 6:44 pm: | |
Asurprise, I do understand that not even the so called noble ones among us can present a righteousness of their own to God.
It is by faith in the merits of Christ.
What I am asking here, is in what way would one be making void the law, and in what way are we expected to establish the law.
It appears that you and Colleen are trying to describe an answer and I am not picking up on your expression. Forgive me for my lack of perception.
The law points out sin. Got it.
Now , we are not to make void something through an act of faith, but we instead establish it.
Waht are we establishing and how are we to establish it?
I agree, we cannot change our hearts, in fact , I do not think even repentance comes from our own hearts either. |
Rossbondreturns
Registered user
Username: Rossbondreturns
Post Number: 241
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2011 - 6:59 pm: | |
I'd say that God establishes His Law within us.
We are seen as though we perfectly keep the Law through Christ.
Also lest we forget the important part.
The Law of death is of NO EFFECT to the Christian we are now under the Law of the Spirit.
The Law of the Spirit is the Law of Freedom and is not a curse.
The Law of the Spirit is about Resting in Christ's establishment of freedom from the Law of death.
That's all I got at the moment, I got rusty cogs in my mind right now. |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 210
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2011 - 8:53 pm: | |
Our faith, that the law can not save us, does not make void the law.
It establishes the law ... by showing us that the law has done its work in us ..
..showing us that we cannot keep it and are deperately in need of the Saviour.
The law is not voided by faith... our faith establishes that the law did its work in our lives and condemed us.
The law is not void, it is established as good and right and holy.
But it is death to us, as sinners, we are condemned by the law that is good and holy and righteous.
By faith we do not void the law... by faith we die to the law, that we might be made alive to the Spirit.
The law of flight does not void or negate the law of gravity.
Both laws are valid at the same time.
Both laws are valid but are applied to a different group.
The group in flight are no longer bound by gravity.
Those still on the ground are bound by gravity and are not affected by the law of Spirit.
The law of the Spirit is like the law of flight, it sets you free from the law of sin and death;
just as the law of flight sets you free from the law of gravity.
The law of sin and death the 10c is like the law of gravity it holds you down.
You cannot be under the law of flight and the law of gravity at the same time.
Both laws are good.
You cannot be under the law of the Spirit and the law of sin and death 10 c at the same time.
Both laws are good.
The law of the Spirit is for those who have died to the law of sin and death and have been set free in Christ.
The good and holy law of sin and death is still established as a tutor to lead unblievers to Christ.
It is not voided by our faith that has set us free in the Spirit.
Both laws are in effect and valid at the same time.
But have jurisdiction over separate groups.
For those who have not died to the law, the law still condemns them.
For those who have died to the law, there is now no condemnation for they are free of the law of sin and death and under the law of the Spirit.
No flesh will be justified by works of the law of sin and death.
Righteousness can only be gained apart from the law or without the law.
Righteousness comes only by faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross.
. |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2085
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 05, 2011 - 8:40 pm: | |
AMEN HANDMAIDEN!!!!!!!!!!!! See Jim; the law applies to you only if you aren't saved - then it will condemn you! But if you are saved, then you HAVE DIED TO THE LAW AND ARE ALIVE TO CHRIST!!!
Ask God to reveal truth to you! Seek Him with all your heart and He promises to be found by you if you do seek Him with all your heart! 
Nice to "see" you on the forum again, Handmaiden!!! Everybody! This is the lady whom God used to bring me out of the Seventh-day Adventist cult!!! (And the Lord used her to bring several others out as well! She's a never-been Adventist, but she was a member of another cult. She has yet to tell her conversion story here on the forum, but since she's not ex-Adventist, she's reluctant to, I guess.......) |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2087
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 05, 2011 - 9:11 pm: | |
Jim; you said "emptiness" that you struggle with emptiness. That means you don't have the Spirit. You don't have the Spirit because you haven't accepted Jesus' finished work. |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2088
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 05, 2011 - 9:19 pm: | |
Jim; we "establish" the law because the law still is there to condemn sinners. The new will that Jesus brought in at His death is similar and yet different from the old will and testament. There's still "law" there, but those who have been born again aren't under it and are not condemned by it. They have been born by the Spirit. They are dead to the law. |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1294
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2011 - 5:43 pm: | |
I can write out that I accept Jesus's finished work, I can say it over and over, I can say it in a hundred variat forms to include all the key words.
And in fact I have done this reverently, feverently and prayerfully over and over, year after year.
To say it , express it and repeat it does not add to what is already confessed in faith.
Therefor, it is comprehension that must be missing. Saying the words is a petition.
I have no power of my own to affect a greater reality that that which is hope based upon the faith that I exercise, be it ever so humble and perplexed.
To keep telling me I am not saved by one caveat or another is not helping me.
Telling me to let go. to stop struggling is tantamount to be agnostic. Because if I disengage, there is no further attempt to understand.
To say trust to a free fall is to cointinue the darkness I already live with.
I understand rip tides. You don't fight against the current, you swim sideways to it. But you do swim. To shut down is to be dragged out to sea.
To simply accept confusing conflicting theories is to swim in circles.
Jim |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2090
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2011 - 6:38 pm: | |
Jim; I think your trouble is that you don't know whether it's true that Jesus' paid the whole atonement or not. You're not sure whether you can put your weight down on Jesus' finished work, because you don't know that it's really been finished and that there isn't something for you to do too. Am I right?
Don't give up. Keep crying out to God to show you the truth and root you in reality!
You do realize that our best efforts don't help us attain anything like goodness, do you? You do realize that the ONLY way to get to Heaven is to be as good as God, don't you? When you accept Jesus sacrifice and rely on it instead of your works to get to Heaven, then you are given Jesus' righteousness!
Remember the parable Jesus told about the king who invited all sorts of guests to his wedding feast, both good and bad? All they needed to do was accept the wedding garments passed out at the door to everybody who came in. That's it. Nobody was asked if they were good enough to come to the feast. They just accepted the wedding garment.
The ONLY thing you need to do is BELIEVE that Jesus did it all and that there isn't anything for you to do to get saved. See for yourself. Read Acts 16:31. |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1295
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2011 - 4:27 am: | |
It is not that I do not acknowledge that Christ has paid it all, redemption is complete.
I do not know what to do with the sin issues of life in the face of the dire exclusions from heaven contained in the NT.
It seems we teach a free pass no matter what.
Past , present and future. But then we say , if a person has things not overcome , then most likely they were not truly saved, they just said the words, but their hearts were not changed.
If sin remains in the life, (no matter how good I get) I will always find sin. Then my heart is not right. So I got to get my heart right so that I can both expell sin and make peace with God, that puts the work of being right back upon me. If I fail to overcome, I am not saved because that is the flip flop cop out people say. For me, if I cannot overcome anxiety, if I cannot find a church, If I cannot understand, if I cannot heal enough socially, then , I remain damaged and apparently unsaved. |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2091
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2011 - 7:38 am: | |
The apostle Paul hadn't attained perfection, but he was saved! Philippians 3:12
Christians will never be perfect in this life. Christians are forgiven, not perfect. Sin after salvation breaks fellowship, not relationship. A believer is still saved, still in the family of God. |
Tfelmon
Registered user
Username: Tfelmon
Post Number: 40
Registered: 7-2011
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2011 - 9:49 am: | |
There is nothing we can do with sin issues in our life, hence the need for grace. If fact, Paul says God gives us the Holy Spirit to pray on our behalf becuase WE do not know what to pray for!
Romans 8 NKJV
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1296
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2011 - 3:53 pm: | |
I do not know what normal feels like when it comes to church or fellowship.
I recall, hauntingly so , EGW said something to the effect, if you have lost your joy (connection) to God. Go back to the last place you had it.
This is why I keep looking back.
Even though I know that going back would carry with it more painful reminders, and a rehash of issues that caused me to leave in the past.
The only difference is , I would have the experience of futility these past 8 plus years.
Not sure if I would go back defeated, mixed up and useless or a teachable soul.
Then I turn to here and now, trying to gain traction to have a purpose and drive to forge into the unknown. New church, new faces, start from scratch.
Scripture says God puts the lonely into familys.
Where does that line form? |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2094
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2011 - 7:10 pm: | |
Jim; why are you looking at something EGW said? Would you like me to put a few things down that Ellen White said that OBVIOUSLY contradict the Scriptures? I think I started a thread to that effect awhile back if you want to scan down the thread titles in this "discussion" part of the forum.
Joy is a fruit of the Spirit.
Loneliness is a signal that you need to spend more time with the Lord. |
Rossbondreturns
Registered user
Username: Rossbondreturns
Post Number: 244
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2011 - 7:42 pm: | |
Going back doesn't help.
What helps is Trusting in God and His word.
when I go back it only reminds me of how much of a hollow shell I was as an Adventist.
If you keep dwelling on the past and not fully trusting in God then spiritual growth will be glacial.
Normal can be a tough slog, in fact if you devote yourself to Christ expect it to be a tough slog, because you will be actively opposing the prince of this world, the Prince of the Power of the Air.
He did not oppose you when you were in his domain, he actively encouraged you. Now though, now you're the enemy a true Christian is a target of the enemy in daily spiritual warfare.
But you are In Christ...and Christ is in you.
You can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.
And Christ created all things. |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 211
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2011 - 9:38 pm: | |
Jim
There has ALWAYS ONLY been ONE way to be saved.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.
Old Covenant or New Covenant the only way to be saved was by faith not works.
No one, NO NOT ONE has ever been saved or will be saved by keeping the LAW.
Jesus did not come to earth to start a religion or a denomination.
He came to remove the sin barrier between man and God.
He came to restore the relationship and fellowship that was lost when sin entered the world.
Sin separates man from God.
Jesus removed every barrier, He bridged every gap between man and God.
He did not come with a to do list. He came with a DONE LIST. IT IS FINISHED!!!!
There is nothing more to do except accept His finished work on your behalf.
THERE IN NO OBEDIENCE EXCEPT IN JESUS!!!!
Do not delude yourself into thinking that you can keep the law in any way, shape or form but in and through Jesus.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.
This is the verse you need to meditate on until it permeates your soul and destroys every lie of the enemy that is keeping you from the simple truth of the Good News the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
All have sinned and have come short of the glory of God...bad news Jim, you are a sinner and cannot save yourself.
Good News God sent His Son to redeem ALL of the sinners that would come unto Him.
No requirement necessary it is a free gift ...come as you are.
He will do alllll the rest, just stop resisting and rest in His promise.
It is not the sheep's job to find the water or the green pastures or to protect himself from the wolves...etc
It is the shepherd's job, not yours to keep you on the right path and to keep you from straying.
He who has begun a good work in you will finish what He has begun. It is God's work not yours.
Jesus did not interview James and John or Peter or Mathew to see if they were good obedient lawkeepers or not.
He simply said follow me.
They left all behind them and followed Him.
It is time to leave all of your worries and doubts and confusion behind and follow Him.
He is calling to you now.
Cast all of your cares on the One, Who cares so much for you and follow Him.
He is the way, not the law.
He will not lose you.
He is faithful even when we are not.
He will never leave you or forsake you.
He is worthy of your trust.
praying for you.
handmaiden |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1300
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2011 - 4:12 pm: | |
Thank You Handmaiden.
I am doing my best to not lose sight of Grace that comes from Christ.
Jim |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 212
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2011 - 8:58 pm: | |
His amazing grace is sufficient.
His mercy is new every morning.
His love is unconditional and from everlasting to everlasting.
Our God is a good God.
Not the harsh demanding legalistic sda god.
He has a true Father's heart for you, Jim.
All that come to Him, He will never reject, He will never send away, He will never cast out.
Is there anything more precious than the blood of Jesus...and yet this is what was poured out to redeem you, Jim.
He loves you so very much.
How very precious you are to Him.
He finds no fault in you.
You are to be presented as His SPOTLESS bride.
without blemish or wrinkle.
handmaiden |
Jim02
Registered user
Username: Jim02
Post Number: 1304
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 7:49 am: | |
God is love.
Loving the unlovable. |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2106
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 11:37 am: | |
Yes Jim; and it really is a free gift! We don't have to earn it or partly earn it by our works! (Romans 5:15) |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 218
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2011 - 5:10 pm: | |
God loved us when we were His enemies and sent His Son to die for us.
Now that He calls us His children will He cast us out of His family???
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
He came to justify the ungodly... i think we all fit in that category.
Romans 4:5
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness...
He said the healthy have no need of a physician.
Mark 2:17
And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."
God loves the sinner and hates the sin.
He destroyed sin and saved the sinner.
God does love us and is not willing that any should perish. He will save all who come to Him.
Not because we are worthy and not because we deserve it, but inspite of the fact that we are not.
Yes Jim, God loves the unlovely and the unloved.
But we are unloved no more!!!!!
Blessed be the name of the Lord
He has made me glad
Rejoice and give Him thanks for the great salvation He has given us. |
