| Author | Message | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1255 Registered: 5-2007 |
Many of you know that I struggle with guilt trips especially on Sabbath (Saturday). I have tried for years to adapt to my mixed up theology studies in an effort to be free from legalism and to at least try to go through the motions of being free from the old covenant law system by shopping and normal activities on Saturday. I would like to ask everyone who has arrived at a state of peace and conviction about Grace, Law, Sabbath and Freedom in Christ under the terms of the New Covenant, to please share what gives you peace, freedom and conviction about the Sabbath issue. A thought, a passage an understanding. What I need are anchoring thoughts I can hang onto when in the moments of anxiety and guilt. Something that I can hold onto when I need to fight against the wind of doubts. Simplicity.......... Jim | ||
| Thegoldenway Registered user Username: Thegoldenway Post Number: 96 Registered: 5-2011 |
Jim, I have a question for you. Do you still have ANY of EGWs books in your home? Do you still have ANY SDA books in your home? I know for me I was strongly impressed to get all those books out of my home and off my property. As soon as I did, it changed everything for the better for me. I lost that anxious feeling, that guilt, that oppressive dark atmosphere and my mind was clear and I was able to start seeing things with clarity. Have you ever verbally renounced Seventh day Adventism? I know in my experience that played an important part in getting free of SDAism. Just some thoughts for you to consider. I know that what helped me may not work for you. We are all different and at different places in our journey with Jesus. lynn | ||
| Mkfound Registered user Username: Mkfound Post Number: 144 Registered: 1-2011 |
Hi Jim One of the things that clinched it for me was understanding that when Jesus fulfilled the Law--this meant everything. Many things in the OC pointed to Jesus and what He has done, high priest, lamb, lamplight, showbread, jubliee year, refuge cities. I will summarize those: High Priest--Jesus is our High Priest, as stated in Hebrews, and a better High Priest than is in the OC, because He has no sin and yet understands our difficulties. He is our Mediator, which is what Aaron would act as, as the Hebrews could not approach God directly. Lamb--Jesus is also the Lamb that was sacrified for our sin. The unblemished lamb with no defects that was required by the Law to be sacrificed pointed to Jesus, the better Sacrifice who would be unblemished as well. Lampstand--Again, pointed to Jesus. The lamp was to be burning 'forever', perpetually, throughout the generations. It was to point to Jesus, the Light of the world. The lamplight was a physical thing, a phsyical fire, but again, it is absolutely nothing to compare to Jesus who really is the Light of the world. Showbread--The unleavened cakes that were displayed on the table in the sanctuary were considered holy. This only pointed to Jesus being the Bread. When we are in Christ, Jesus feeds us and we are satisfied. Jubliee year: Considered a Sabbath every 50 years. All slaves were to be set free, and all property was to be returned to the original owners. This was a Sabbath of Sabbaths. The physical representation is small to compare with the freedom from bondage to sin that we receive when Jesus saves us. The 'property' that we receive--I believe we can look at that as the rightful ownership of the New Earth, unspoilt. Once again, while Jubilee Day/Year was something good, which was given to help the slaves and poor--think of what it signifies. Refuge Cities--I'm throwing this one in here because I'm trying to include various aspects of the Law. A refuge city was somewhere that people could run to--if they accidentally killed someone. Essentially, it 'guaranteed' that they could live in the refuge city free and without fear of perhaps the family of the person that was killed coming to exact revenge. The person would be able to live in the city until the HIGH PRIEST died, and then he could leave the city able to live anywhere without fear of revenge. I see some aspects of mercy here in the Law--and hints towards the freedom we experiece when the High Priest died-- who is Jesus. So Jim, what I've tried to show is that I've chosen various aspects of the Law--and all point to Jesus and what He has done for us. But all those things pale in comparison to Jesus Himself, because those are good things that were there to give a glimpse of what would take place. So it is with the Sabbath. As Col 2:16-17 says--the substance is in Christ, and not in the shadows. I named some of the shadows above. Sabbath was a foreshadowing of God's grace and the rest we find in Him. Grace--because we cease from our works as God has already completed what needed to be done. We cannot work to be saved. Rest--because once we stop working to be saved, we rest in Jesus, knowing that what He did was enough, and that I do not need to add to it. Jim, another analogy could be this one. I write you a promissory note for $1000, and hand it to you; the note states that I will pay you in one weeks' time. And sure enough, I'm true to my word, and I pay you back the $1000 when the week is complete. Now that you have that $1000 bill in hand--does my promissory note mean much to you? Do you want to frame it or hang it on your wall? Probably not--because you have the real $1000 in your hand. The promissory note then is just a piece of paper. You might file it, but that's about all you'll do with the paper. It is similar with the New Covenant--the $1000. We have received what the Old Covenant promised/foreshadowed--the promissory note. Once we have received Jesus, there is no need to go back and: 1) find a guy from the Levi tribe to be a high priest. Why? Because Jesus is our High Priest 2) go to a farm and pick out a perfect lamb for slaughter. Why? Because Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world 3) go light a 7 candle-sticked lampstand--that will never go out from 'generation to generation perpetually'. Why? Because Jesus is the Light of the world. 4) bake unleavened cakes for display on table (in a tabernacle/temple) Why? Because Jesus is the Bread from Heaven. He is the Word, furthermore, and He is what we live by. 5) Celebrate the Jubilee Sabbath by freeing slaves (I hope we don't have any slaves), but that's besides the point. Why? Because it was a shadow pointing to our freedom from sin, and our inheritance that will be returned to us--the New Earth 6) Establish refuge cities for escaping people--Why? One of the criteria of refuge cities is that the person would be free to leave the city when the high priest died. Therefore this part of the Law hinges on point 1)--the high priest. And finally--there's no need to have a weekly rest on Saturday Sabbath. Why? Because we embrace Jesus as our Sabbath, when we rest from our works for salvation, and believe that his finished work at the cross is enough. When we realize that the Law was simply a 'tutor' to point us to Christ. Jesus becomes our EVERYTHING. And no high priest (humanly speaking), lambs, lamps, bread, jubliees, or anything else will save us. What sdaism has done is taken the Sabbath--God's beautiful picture of His grace and invitation for us to rest in Him--into a WORK that became the god in adventism. It has turned into a source of pride for some of those that do keep it. The pharisees of old tried to do these things too, in Jesus day. They turned the Sabbath into a burden for the people. But Jesus says Come to Him because His burden is light. So one can rest on the Sabbath day, in keeping with the Old Convenant--but then they are hanging on to the 'promissory note' and filing away the real $1000 bill. Jim I've been praying for you all this week and everyday. I've seen some of your messages and I can understand the vacilliating between two camps; I did that too. I'm praying that God will grant you this rest and peace. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1598 Registered: 12-2007  |
Jim, What really concerns me most about your situation is you have so much guilt over a DAY when the Bible clearly states that we are not to judge one another over what we eat, drink, or over the keeping of days. It is a DAY. Jesus dwells with us and IN us EVERY day. It is Jesus that is important not the "keeping" of a DAY. If you truly feel impressed to "Keep" the Saturday sabbath, then do it. Maybe instead of feeling like you have to force yourself to do something, anything to NOT worship on that day... instead of torturing yourself with guilt over the issue of a DAY, you could make Saturday a special day of prayer and fasting, spending time alone with God. Just you and He. then maybe you could ALSO open yourself up to attending a local non denominational church for Bible studies and worship with truly Evangelical Christians. Praying for you to find peace with yourself and with the Lord. Francie | ||
| Wiredog Registered user Username: Wiredog Post Number: 258 Registered: 8-2010  |
Jim, I was doing some reading on religious history, I am always looking into the Jewish Sabbath question. At first my desire to read and try to "make sure" I was not wrong about it. Admittedly, at times I wonder but the more and more I read Scripture and other Christian Histories the more I realize it's not about if I am wrong but whether Jesus was right. What I mean by that is, do I beleive that Jesus could be wrong? When He said in Matthew 5 that He came to fulfill the law in its entirety do I think He failed? God never fails to do what he promised and Romans 8:3 reminds me of that. DO you think that Jesus failed to fulfill His Father's will? So tonight I was reading the Schaff-Herzog Religious Encyclopedia article on Sunday, I saw that D.M. Canright frequently refered to it. I was also reading "How Sunday Became the Popular Day of Worship" written in 1978 by Kenneth Strand Church Historian from the Seminary at Andrews University, quite Adventist. I have read and reread so many arguements of Sabbath to Sunday, Im sure my wife thinks I nuts. But tonight for me I realized that what Christians have been saying and what Seventh-day Adventists have ONLY partially been telling about the Lord's Day and the Jewish Sabbath after Christ's Crucifixion, these things both SUPPORT a single answer. In Romans 14:1-15:1 and Col 2:13-17 we see that the Apostle knew the day of worship (i.e., Jewish Sabbath Observance) was no longer of import. Both Christians and Adventists do not deny that the Scriptures show Paul going to the synagogue on the Sabbath to sit and discuss with the Jews Acts 13:14 & 17:2 and also meeting with the new Chuch on the first day of the week (i.e., The Lord's Day). 1 Cor 16:1-4 & Acts 20:7 Professor Strand and other Adventists have to admit that in the early church taught by the Apostles (i.e., the Apostolic Church) Christians met on both Saturday & Sunday. Then by the Second Century, Jewish Sabbath observance essentially disappeared and Christians almost exclusively kept the Lord's Day. The ones that kept arguing that the law was still a requirement were the Judiazers. Now Christians, the Apostle Paul and the Apostolic Church all say the Law was fulfilled and that the day of worship was not of importance rather it is whom you worship. The Seventh-day Adventists also confirm early Christians kept both days. However this is where some still claim it was as a result of Paganism entering the church which has been clearly disproven--(if you want references let me know). Jim, I see it here that the early church and the Christians were living what they were taught and made clear to them, that the day no longer mattered--they KNEW Jesus fulfilled the law nailing it to the cross. Becasue they were freed by Christ they chose to worship on either/both days! Today we Christians worship in that same TRADITION. Contrary to what we have been taught not all tradtion is bad. Remember, Adventists don't deny that the early Apostolic Church worshiped on both days, they cant becasue History and Scripture records it. The best they can do is bring up theories as to why but unwittingly by their arguements they are attesting to that fact, Christians knew that Christ freed them. All the arguements about the Pope or some conspiratorial council are far too late in history to even play a role in the Adventist Sabbath arguement. Rest in what you have read for yourself in Scripture and what you know about our God who NEVER fails to fulfill His will nor will he lose anyone the Father has given to Him. In Him you can have true rest (sabbath). (Message edited by wiredog on August 27, 2011) | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1256 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hi Lynn, Yes , I have a few SDA books, Mainly for reference purposes. But I have mostly avoided reading them. I got rid of 95% of them some years ago. Yes , I realize that it is a duality in of itself. I have been trying to compare and resolve the assorted arguments and issues. I have not verbally denouced SDA in a formal sense. I have remained on the fence because I am not sure about some things as yet, even though at times I get moments where I think I am clear and free from the SDA, it is the echos and doubts that keep me examining the same point counter points ad naseum. For me, it is vital that I arrive at solid clear understanding of what the scriptures actually say and mean within their contexts. Unlearning the bias of a SDA filter or presupositions and approaching it from a teachable attitude. That is not an easy thing to do even when you are giving it all you got. Comprehension of any study is predicated upon prior understandings. In this situation, often requiring going back to even understanding the meanings of root words. The same mistrust I have for what I thought I knew was right is also in play for learning any new teaching. I so wish it were simple, but it is not, There are so many things that run in circles or left to rationalizing. The other thing, I have a strong sense of respect when it comes to all Christian faiths. Yes , I know that Christ was firm and even harsh when it came to the Pharasees' and Saduccess sp. But Christ is The only One Who can judge other's clearly. At most, I may someday be able to judge and detect the errors in the SDA beliefs, but even then, I will not presume to harshly condemn them. I believe our place is to reason together and to lead when possible. If I ever write that letter, it will be with Love and with clarity. Though, it still remains possible I will not write the letter. Jim | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1257 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hello MK, I have just recieved my study books on Galatians, Romans and James. Which I hope will help me process through these teachings for additional clarity. Even though I have read them a hundred times over, hopefully, a study will help organize my understanding. So often, my tripping point is when people arrive at and share a conclusion, and as you have done , cite the verses. But even then, I do not always conclude the same things from those passages. Perhaps it is old filters still getting in the way, but it is also struggling in my capacity to take the 'risk' to step out in a gamble of doubt. Even here, I have problems between faith and presumption. What is a faith that accepts risk, and what is a gamble that is merely presumption? (I hope I am making sense.) If only there was a single passage recorded of Christ saying, after the cross, the entire law will be ended including the 10. As it is , I have the teachings of Paul which evidently practically come out of thin air as far as his contempories were able to determine. The faithful accept that Christ taught Paul direct and the other apostles concurred and endorsed him. So, even here, doubt haunts me, forcing me to attempt to verify and establish a continuity that what Paul taught was foretold. As we all know , not everyone saw it that way. Judizers. I want to embrace what Paul teaches because it gives freedom, but fear of presumption and assorted passages in the NT bring doubt about the complete cancelation of the law. I am still trying to grasp a way to relate and abide in Christ in hopes that there may be a peace about it and not fret that I am being subtly duped again. Jim | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1258 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hi Francie, I have thought about your idea many times before. By default, that is somewhat what I do as it is. The thing about compromise is that in some sense it makes me lukewarm and continously tossed about. It traps me by concession into a mixed up stasis. My hope has been that I can someday move out of the valley and find a settled peace one way or the other. If conviction leads me either way, then hopefully in that sense, God will judge my heart even if I still get it wrong. Though the question of condemnation by presumption is still an issue and accounts for the trap I am in. Jim | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1259 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hello Wiredog, W: I realize it's not about if I am wrong but whether Jesus was right. J: This is a starting point for me. The question being, it does not depend on me getting it right but knowing that Jesus got it right. Trying to shore up that idea. We are told that we must believe, trust, faith, walk in, truth, all aimed at, in and by Christ. So, if I get it wrong, fail to believe the right thing, did Jesus get it right for me, does He still cover me even if I am a mixed up SDA? Or even if I am a decieved mainliner Sunday keeper, Or even if I am stuck in neutral? W: What I mean by that is, do I beleive that Jesus could be wrong? J: No , Jesus is not wrong. W: When He said in Matthew 5 that He came to fulfill the law in its entirety do I think He failed? J: He did not fail. But he said do not think He came to destroy the law. W: God never fails to do what he promised and Romans 8:3 reminds me of that. DO you think that Jesus failed to fulfill His Father's will? J: No W: Both Christians and Adventists do not deny that the Scriptures show Paul going to the synagogue on the Sabbath to sit and discuss with the Jews Acts 13:14 & 17:2 and also meeting with the new Chuch on the first day of the week (i.e., The Lord's Day). 1 Cor 16:1-4 & Acts 20:7 J: Yes , and this is where I base my attempts to be free. W:Christians met on both Saturday & Sunday. J: Confusion existed from the start and the Cannon does not contain a lot on the issue. I have read a few writing of teh Early Church that speak on this. W: The Seventh-day Adventists also confirm early Christians kept both days. However this is where some still claim it was as a result of Paganism entering the church which has been clearly disproven--(if you want references let me know). J: I agree. Jim, I see it here that the early church and the Christians were living what they were taught and made clear to them, that the day no longer mattered--they KNEW Jesus fulfilled the law nailing it to the cross. J: This is what I am trying to grasp. To verify what fullfilled means in thsi context and what was nailed to the cross. W: Becasue they were freed by Christ they chose to worship on either/both days! Today we Christians worship in that same TRADITION. J: Tradition has merit if it is based in truth. W:Rest in what you have read for yourself in Scripture and what you know about our God who NEVER fails to fulfill His will nor will he lose anyone the Father has given to Him. In Him you can have true rest (sabbath). J: Trying............ Jim | ||
| Wiredog Registered user Username: Wiredog Post Number: 259 Registered: 8-2010 |
Jim, Thanks for the clarification an helping me hone in on what the area of struggle is. I have read comments before but was still in the process of understanding and getting a footing myself. RE: "J: Confusion existed from the start and the Cannon does not contain a lot on the issue." Jim find that the confusion is sourced primarily from our Adventist side. When I read the Scriptures about in Acts about Paul and his missionary journeys it is clear to me He did not regard a specific day as he wrote in Romans 14:1-15:1. As an Adventist I have heard Romans 14:5 quoted many times almost immediately followed by the opinion, that Paul left it unclear as to his personal position, but since he was a Jew we should conclude he knew to keep the Sabbath." My response to that is NO He did not leave it unclear. If you read Romans 15:1 he tells you where he stands, but because in Seventh-day Adventism we PROOF-TEXT we seldom make it to Romans 15:1 containing Pauls answer. RE: "J: This is what I am trying to grasp. To verify what fullfilled means in thsi context and what was nailed to the cross." I believe the Greek word used here is pleroo the definition leaves no ambiguity as to whatever was fulfilled in not left wanting or with any part incomplete. As to what exactly was nailed again I believe the source of confusion comes from our Adventist background. What is in Col 2:14 is also described in a parallel verse in Ephesians 2:15. Bro, again I believe the source of our confusion is not what is IN the Scriptures but rather what in our upbringing we were told these verses just couldn't be saying. The only being I know that can cast doubt on the plain word of God has the initials SATAN. Cheers! | ||
| Thegoldenway Registered user Username: Thegoldenway Post Number: 98 Registered: 5-2011 |
Jim, just remember that God is a rewarder of those who seek Him. You are definitely a seeker of Him. He will never let you go. He understands and knows what you need to do to process everything. He is so patient with us as we work our way out of the maze of error. I have to share this with you tho. Yesterday at work, I had a customer tell me this: Two years ago she was going to tell me that the SDA church was a cult but was stopped by the Holy Spirit. He told her not to say anything to me about that because I was not ready to hear that yet. And you know back then I wasn't. If she would have said something to me, I would have stopped associating with her and would have dived in even deeper into SDAism. I don't know that I would be where I am today if she would have said that to me two years ago. I would probably be still in that church today. When my family and I sent our "letter" to the conference it was very considerate....but also to the point and very short. This is what we sent to the Conference of the SDA church. "As we have studied our bible we have seen that a number of the unique and fundamental doctrines of the Seventh day Adventist Church are not biblical. We love the Lord Jesus Christ with all our hearts and we are committed to living wholeheartly for Him. We also are conscious-bound to follow the bible alone and as a result we must ask you to please remove our names from membership in the Seventh day Adventist Church...." This was actually a letter that I found that was written by someone else...but it was worded so well and said everything that I wanted to say and also it was short and sweet. This was a letter that someone posted as a "form" letter for others to use. I'm not a theologian so I didnt want to get into a long drawn out bible study in my letter. I figure too that if they really want to know they will contact me. Well, so far they haven't. We wont know about our membership til after Sept. 23rd. I don't have any hard feelings against anyone in the SDA church, but I do have a "righteous anger" over how this church deceives people and keeps people in bondage and how they make of no effect the work of Christ on our behalf at Calvery. We are all at different places in our spiritual walk with the Lord. What matters most is that we are walking with the Lord.....and you are  | ||
| Lori Registered user Username: Lori Post Number: 113 Registered: 11-1999 |
God does not use guilt to direct us to truth. God uses conviction!!! There is a huge difference between the two. | ||
| Christo Registered user Username: Christo Post Number: 273 Registered: 2-2008 |
Jim, Have you ever had someone buy you a soda or hot dog, perhaps a cup of coffee, and your friend payed the tab. He even left a tip. Do you still anguish 20 years latter about paying for that hot dog and soda or coffee that your friend paid in full so many years ago out of the love for you in their heart. Then why anguish that Jesus payed the price for you 2000 years ago. He did it freely, and out of mercy and love for you. Today is the day of salvation, REJOICE !!!! The new command is to be washed by his blood, and to love. The dead works of the law are not love, and are not his cleansing. Chris | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 933 Registered: 5-2009 |
Jim, write this on a 3x5 card and carry it in your pocket: "There is now NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me FREE from the law of sin and death. For what the LAW was POWERLESS to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering." Romans 8:1-3 H-m-m...the law of sin and death was weakened. Interesting. Therefore Jesus came to be more powerful than even the law. Jesus is superior to the law and did for us what the law could NEVER do...therefore my worship now is directed to Him and not a day. We were brainwashed into thinking a day more important than our Redeemer. We all know and understand how hard this is...that is the reason for this ministry. But maybe you need to step out on faith in Jesus. I can't tell you how very important it is to get in a good Bible study and interact with other supportive Christians. I hope you can see the care and effort from we who support you, Jim.My personal opinion is that the accuser of the brethren knows that if he can keep you frightened you won't be opposing him and his false gospels (there are many, not just SDA) ...I don't mean to be offensive, but I just feel like he is trying to drive you to distraction over this issue--once you decide to step out, you are going to be a powerful contender for the gospel "once delivered to the saints"... If this is offensive, please tell me...I'm in a super hurry right now and couldn't proof-read! We all love you, Jim! | ||
| Surfy Registered user Username: Surfy Post Number: 758 Registered: 11-2007 |
Jim, if going shopping on Saturday causes you guilt...don't go shopping. In fact, just live Saturday as you always have. Nowhere does it say that now we HAVE to watch college football and eat ham sammiches and drink beer on Saturday afternoons. It's not like you are going to wake up some Saturday morning and all of a sudden you have changed. I know you have been hanging around here a long time but don't rush God...just follow Him. When He lays down some conviction on your heart, you will know it. A little observation.....It seems like when you ask a question, and someone gives you an answer or suggestion, your response is to question it. To steal a popular phrase, "Just Do It!" and see what happens. Surfy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 12896 Registered: 12-2003  |
Jim, a couple of things: first, Paul's "contemporaries" were never in doubt of his authenticity. People who say otherwise are referring to extra-biblical sources. Before we can know what is real and true, we have to decide that Scripture is God's word, it is completely reliable, and it reveals the absolute truth that God wanted us to know. We have to put our faith somewhere. If we don't take Scripture as our bedrock, we put our own minds in that position. But truth is not in our heads. Our heads are shaped by sin and deception and wounding, and truth is only found in God and revealed in His word. So...Peter equated Paul's writings with Scripture in 2 Peter 3:15-16. In Galatians 1:11-2:10 Paul explains his ministry and reveals that Peter, James, John, and Barnabas recognized God's call and gifting of him and accepted him as God's apostle to the gentiles. Furthermore, in 1 Cor 15:1-11 Paul explains to whom Jesus appeared after His resurrection, and in what order...and shows that he himself was the last one to see the risen Christ. Jim I think the source of your ongoing confusion is your resistance to accepting the witness of Scripture as the only source of truth and reality God has given us. When we were studying our way out of Adventism, we had to decide to refuse to read any Adventist material. Jim, think about it: you are looking at Scripture,and you are looking at Ellen White's writings. How on earth are you going to determine which one is telling you the truth? If the Bible is God's word, He gave it long, long before there was an EGW. God gave it as a complete work useful for correction, instruction in righteousness, and reproof and teaching (2 Tim 3:16). As it is, it is enough. Along come EGW and says, essentially, "No...here's the right way to understand Scripture." What to do? Jim, we have to make the hard decision that we will refuse to read the writings of the one who claims to have defined truth on behalf of God. Scripture itself is God's revelation to us, and our heads are completely unable to decide what is true and what is not on our own. If you doubt that, look at your confusion! We have to place our faith in someone besides ourselves. It makes no sense to me to place my faith in any other natural human being. I have to place my faith in God, and His word is the only foundation of truth I can trust. You will not be able to figure out what is true unless you are willing to trust God and His revelation in His word. If you are willing to trust the writings of people who distrust and disbelieve Scripture, then you will remain confused. We have evidence that Scripture is what it claims to be: for over 2,000 years Christians have understood and believed the gospel as taught in the New Testament. It is not a unique belief; it is revealed fully in the Bible without the help of any modern prophets. What is your absolute foundation? If it is Scripture, then you have to give up all other authoritative interpretations. Ask God to help you read Scripture without any other "filters" and to teach you what is real and true. It won't ever work, though, unless you give up your "right" to compare and contrast endlessly. As long as you read the writings of a false prophet, you will be unable to see Scripture through the lens of reality. With prayers for you, Colleen | ||
| Lori Registered user Username: Lori Post Number: 114 Registered: 11-1999 |
I agree Colleen. My pastor put it rather simply last week when he said, "If you don't respect the Word of God as Absolute Truth you will never believe it. And...if you can't believe it you have no hope of ever applying it to life." I remember very clearly the moment I decided I was no longer going to do all the "comparing". The back and forth...what does the Bible say, what does EGW say...was something close to insanity. I had been praying for God to show me the truth, take away my preconceived ideas. He was doing His part...He was showing me truth and I was afraid because it wasn't what I'd always been told the truth was...it was the truth I'd always been told would deceive me. It was also a truth that offered me peace...something I hadn't had with the truth I'd grown up with. Why do we cling so hard to the familiar..even when we know it's wrong? I was walking up the stairs in our home one fall afternoon when I decided I wasn't going to compare anymore. I was going to make a decision. I was going to make a decision based on what the Bible said. The Bible was TRUTH!! I decided I was going to believe the Bible and nothing else. In that small moment, on the landing of a staircase, I became a Christian. And it was as if the weight of the world had lifted off my shoulders and I was free!!! Up until that moment, I had discovered a lot of Biblical knowledge. I had learned a lot of truth but I hadn't chosen to actually believe it. I think it was appropriate I was standing on the landing of the staircase when I made the decision. I had all the Biblical (intellectual) knowledge on a landing as well...I understood it but I hadn't decided what to do with it. It was sitting there waiting for me to believe it or reject it. It requires a decision, it requires that mustard seed of faith that says, I believe. I believe!!! There comes a point when you have to make a choice. You can't keep riding the fence. You can't serve two masters. A freedom you can't comprehend awaits when you choose the Bible as your measure of Truth. "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.....you who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." Galations 5:1,4 | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1262 Registered: 5-2007 |
To everyone, I appreciate your patience with me. For the record , I am not reading EGW material except what is quoted by others and what I see in proclamation or online here. I have at times gone to pro adventist websites to see if they could defend their positions biblically. Not through EGW. I still have a few books on the shelf. Indeed, eventually , I do intend to get rid of them once I have cleared my thinking. Colleen you are right about Scripture being the foundation for ourt truth. If we don't start from there , we are adrift. Lori, you are right, we cling to the familiar. For me, the SDA was when I had a family, when I had kids and a wife, when life seemed to be working. Things have changed. Kids are grown , I am divorced and maybe that is all mixed up in there too. Thinking, well , if I go back , maybe God would restore what the locust have eaten. Barring that, where to from here? I have not been able to decide where best to go. I wanted to be free from the doubts before heading out into mainline Chruches, or , to make up my mind and just go back to the SDA, at least it is better than a vacuum. The familiar, I know how to act, I knwo the language. Being a visitor has been experimental and so far, rather disconnect and cold. I have not found my place yet. Nowwise, No I am not offended. Speak freely. Goldenway, Thank you for your vote of hope. Wiredog, I am finishing up a couple books and hope to start a study in the Romans, Gal and James. Jim | ||
| Jrt Registered user Username: Jrt Post Number: 1188 Registered: 10-2008 |
Jim, I have been concerned for you for some time and for the confusion and angst that you feel. If you are not reading any EGW books - you might want to remove the books from your home and store them somewhere else. I did that when I began to seriously take God at His Word. And I do know that we have recommended on occasion that you simply study God's Word and His Word alone .... and yet I see that you order men's studies to help you understand ... I don't know if this is what you are experiencing - it was something I experienced ... I was afraid to study scripture on my own ... I felt like I would not be able to understand without someone showing me the way (if that makes sense). Literally, I was afraid I wouldn't understand if I ventured out on my own. When I did venture out - choosing to take God at His Word it was very scary. Just like to encourage you to go to the Word and be willing to "hear" what it is saying to you - even if it goes against what you have always believed. Continuing to pray for you Jim - you are in a battle. jrt | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1265 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hi Jrt, If I study the scriptures alone, I will go back to the SDA. Because they are apparently closer to a functional model (to my undertstanding) that the mainline is. I keep holding out that I am wrong about that and that is why I have resorted to mainline study helps. I have said this before. The truth is somewhere in between the two camps. If I read and study on my own. I automatically merge and that tends to drive me back towards SDA. |
