| Author | Message | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2289 Registered: 7-2007 |
The grandson of Ham the son of Noah was named Nimrod, who's wife started an evil religion naming herself the "Queen of Heaven" and had people worship her. She clained that her son, Tammuz was the son of the "sun-god." [She herself later became known as Ishtar (Easter).] When her son was killed, some of his blood supposedly fell on the stump of an evergreen tree which supposedly grew into a full new tree overnight. This made the evergreen tree "sacred." Here's the article: http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract1.html Look up the official E.G. White estates and type "tree in the church" in the search box. Here's a quote from her: "In every church let your smaller offerings be placed upon your Christmas tree. Let the precious emblem "evergreen" suggest the holy work of God and His beneficence to us;" http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/u/ellenwhite?cof=S%3Ahttp%3A//www.whiteestate.org%3BAH%3Acenter%3BLH%3A94%3BL%3Ahttp%3A//www.whiteestate.org/graphics/whiteestate_logo.png%3BLW%3A612%3BAWFID%3A3ddffb066880b60f%3B&domains=whiteestate.org&sitesearch=whiteestate.org&hl=en&q=cache:q7HXalNKJZEJ:http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/Christmas.html+tree+in+the+church&ct=clnk | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2290 Registered: 7-2007 |
This first Babylonian religion grew and spread and even Israelites were worshiping the "queen of heaven," making cakes for "her," much to God's displeasure - Jeremiah 7:18. It spread to various cultures and various other names were given to this false "goddess." These were the same pagans that falsely converted under Constantine to form Roman Catholicism, which is pure paganism with a thin veneer of Christianity. They had this pagan mother/child religion and changed the name of the "queen of heaven" to Mary and the name of the "child" to Jesus. They changed the names of their other "gods" to saints. That's why they worship Mary, saying with each rosary bead: "Hail Mary, mother of god. pray for us now and at the hour of our death." They think she has more "clout" than Jesus. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1411 Registered: 7-2004  |
Personally I have no problems celebrating Easter or Christmas. Even if they had another meaning at one time, it certainly isn't the meaning attached to them now. The freedom we have in Christ is so great that it "redeems" these days as well. So I say, "Merry Christmas! Celebrate our Lord's incarnation (even if it might not be the exact day). Decorate the tree. Give each other presents. How many other events in the history of man deserve such celebration?" | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1412 Registered: 7-2004 |
For a different viewpoint than what as linked above, please see: http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5172 | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 403 Registered: 2-2006 |
Dianne, I understand your zeal for the Gospel and to defend it to the death. When we meet the real Lord Jesus and all the wonderful truths, it is so precious to us...and joyful. 12 years ago, a friend of mine (another former SDA)was very into David Meyer (when he was still alive). She gave me tapes of his sermon and I was very interested and excited to learn from him. Then....in one of his sermons, he said that when they bought the church buillding, the first thing they did was to "tear that cross down from the steeple". He ranted about it as a "execution device". ??? I was shocked. The cross of Christ was sacred and precious to me. Then I noticed two trends in DM which I recognized in Adventism---a disrepct for our Lord's cross and an obssesive preocupation on the works of darkness. I'm just saying what I learned and observed about him. Take the best and leave the rest, as you will. If it were myself, I would like to know his sources for his detailed, ancient pagan information (I have read similar stuff about Nim and his brood, but never so detailed). Just claiming that he was from a family line of witches does not make for good footnotes and credibility to me. Oh, BTW, there was no official Roman Catholic church before 1058 AD. Before that, there was only one church/Body of Christ and 5 church councils. I don't feel comfortable correcting you, but I feel that correct and important church history is important, especially, for formers. EGW lied about church history or copied others, who were repeating incorrect history. And she praised the medeviel Gnostics! Grrrr! Anyway, God bless your zeal and you, Dianne. Cathy | ||
| Kelleigh Registered user Username: Kelleigh Post Number: 342 Registered: 7-2011  |
I remember reading that Ellen White recommended hanging money on Christmas trees as a fund raising activity. According to history: Christmas tree = Paradise Tree. Ornaments = Forbidden Apple According to Ellen White: Money = Apple. Therefore we conclude: Apple = Root of all evil. Maybe she was onto something? | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 408 Registered: 2-2006 |
I had also learned that the tree came from German Christmas traditions. Our tree is special because so many family memories are within the ornaments collected over my childhood and my children's. Many are angels and nativities. The white lights and candles represent Christ's uncreated light to the world and within Believers. (My candles are not on the tree! Just around the room.) | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 266 Registered: 2-2011 |
~Dianne~ In your posts# 2289 & 2290 are you expressing your view about Christmas? Also, are you of the opinion that it is wrong for Christians to celebrate with trees, decorations, gifts and music dedicated to the birth of the Christ Child? ~mj~ | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2291 Registered: 7-2007 |
Celebrating it or not celebrating it, is not a salvation issue. Millions of born again genuine Christians will have a tree in their living rooms this coming Sunday. The salvation issue is whether or not a person has accepted Jesus as their Savior. When I was an Adventist, I was always worried lest I had committed a sin and "lost" my salvation! I was always checking cans in the grocery store for lard, etc. I had no idea that a Christian is secure. They aren't saved/lost/saved/lost back-and-forth as Adventists think they are. The thing that bugs me is when Satan can thumb his nose at God. It's like looking at pictures of Israel and seeing that huge garish mosque, sitting smack-dab on the middle of the temple mount. I know that God won't let it stay there forever, but it still bugs me to see it. In the same way, it bugs me to see how Satan has created a false mother/child religion and real Christians put the ancient trappings that used to mean wicked things, up in their homes. It's weird that instead of having come up with new things to bring out the warm fuzzies of the day, people use all the old pagan stuff like mistletoe, a yule log, the tree itself, the balls on the tree and presents under the tree. Satan is smarter than humans and it looks to me that as soon as he had an inkling what was up, he decided to make a false religion to imitate it. And if Satan is using Christians to laugh at God, I don't want to be a part of it. And of course, for Ellen White to endorse the tree in the church, is yet another thing to show what kind of spirit she was of. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 267 Registered: 2-2011 |
~Dianne~ Thank-you for answering my question. ~Merry Christmas~ ~*~mj~*~ | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 410 Registered: 2-2006 |
Correction: The date in my post should be 1054 AD not 1058 AD. "The Great Schism". | ||
| Butterfly_poette Registered user Username: Butterfly_poette Post Number: 115 Registered: 5-2011 |
Amazing how many SDAs are against trees when EGW said they were fine. | ||
| Lori Registered user Username: Lori Post Number: 142 Registered: 11-1999 |
In the United States Christmas is closely identified with Christianity. I think one must consider the culture when determining whether to participate in holiday celebrations. Most people who oppose Christmas aren't not simply unbelievers--they are anti-Christian. How is Christmas perceived in the area where you live? Do people mostly view the Christmas holiday as someting that is Christian or non-Christian? Would most other believers in your area think you were honoring a pagan god or would they think you were celebrating the one Lord, Jesus Christ, the "promise of salvation"? This is similiar to the situation Corinthian believers faced in regard to food. All the best meats were sacrificed to idols. Then, it was sold in the markets within the temple. The believer is told they can eat these meats which are sacrificed to idols because they know that "an idol is nothing in this world and no one is God but one. For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many 'gods' and many 'lords') yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificied to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do. Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in a idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? So, this weak brother for whom Christ died is destroyed by your knowledge. When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall". 1 Cor 8 If anyones celebration of this holiday causes them to think of false gods, then they should avoid the celebration. If you know the origin, yet know that there is but one God and you celebrate Christ then you can participate with this knowledge. The only prohibition is if you are in an area where the culture views it as a celebration of false gods then it is best to abstain. I think we can take the principles applying to food and apply them to the celebration of Christmas. In the culture of the US, Christmas is associated as a Christian holiday. In my area, the people who celebrate Christmas are Christians; Christmas Day is the celebration of the "promise of salvation"!!! It is a celebration of the King is Born!!! | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2294 Registered: 7-2007 |
I work for the Dept. of Veteran's Affairs (and so does Handmaiden). Every year, many decorated trees adorn the facility in every department. In a lot of departments, people exchange gifts. One year though, the people in Handmaiden's department had decorated their doors. They pressured her to let them decorate her door. She agreed, but only if she could do it herself. She put up a poster showing the angels giving the glad tidings to the shepherds. It had the Bible verses, Luke 2:10,11 on it with "Christ is born" in big letters. The other people had had their doors decorated for two or three weeks, but no sooner had she put that up (within an hour), everybody was told to take their decorations down because it was "a fire hazard" to have them up. If that day were truly Christian, would the whole world celebrate it? No, the world would have nothing to do with it! The VA promotes pagan stuff such as regular sweat lodges for the patients. If you look up what those are, you'll see that those were times when Native Americans called upon their ancestral spirits. The VA calls it "treatment." Sharing the gospel is vigorously disciplined. Christians put their jobs on the line to share the gospel with anyone at work. Handmaiden has a brother who is an atheist who's eager to share his non-gospel. He's the president of the Rogue Valley Atheist's Association. (I'm not sure if I have the exact title right.) He's always sending emails to his sister trying to sway her to his point of view. Recently, he sent a cartoon drawing of a druid all in black, with a black hood; carrying a black bag full of things like a tree decorated with sunglobes, mistletoe, yule logs, Santa Claus, etc. The caption had the druid saying something like: "Curious how Christianity hates everything about paganism, but steals all of our items." The word "Christ" means "anointed." "Mass" is "the ritual of sacrificing" Jesus over and over again. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1423 Registered: 7-2004 |
Asurprise, Chritians celebrate Christ at Christmas. I am one who gladly does so, and I am delighted to be free of the legalism and paranoid fear mongering that was so rampant in SDAism. You are welcome to your own opinions about Christmas, but frankly your posts on the subject here remind me of the legalism rather than the freedom and joy I now have. Our secular government makes every effort to remove Christ from Christmas, and I believe that emphases like the one you are so heavily promoting here only helps the secular atheists accomplish this goal. (Message edited by ric_b on December 24, 2011) | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1424 Registered: 7-2004 |
Asurprise, I would also like to challenge you on the actual meaning of the wod "mass". The Latin basis of the word certainly doesn't mean anything like "ritual of sacrificing" nor can I find any objective dictionary with anything like this definition. I find it used at the website you recommend, but it appears to be just another unsubstantiated claim on the part of that author. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 273 Registered: 2-2011 |
~HELLO~ I just had a prayer answered! My oldest Granddaughter who is 24 years old and was raised in a Christian Church from her birth by two loving parents, has not attended church for over two years~ My Christmas Prayer was that she would come to church with me tonight for our beautiful candlelight service honoring Christ Jesus birth! Complete with trees, decorations, lights and carols My Prayer was answered! She is coming with me! Christmas is when we as Christians can share with family & friends that LOVE came down at Christmas to bring this world a SAVIOUR! This a Beautiful Season~GOD is Sovereign ~ he knew that His birth would be celebrated! although He did not tell us what season to have a Birthday Party for Him! or how to celebrate! Since it was decided long ago to be on December 25TH I do not think it matters the season but that we do set aside a time! ~Wishing all of YOU a Very MERRY CHRISTMAS and a Happy New Year '2012'~ May all your Christmas Prayers & Wishes come true! ~mj~ | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1425 Registered: 7-2004 |
Amen MJ! Thanks for sharing your joy with us. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 2021 Registered: 6-2006  |
I just checked the Watchtower site and noticed that this is the exact type of rhetoric the Jehovah's Witnesses use to put guilt and fear into the hearts of their members, as well as discourage them from celebrating Christ's birth. What does it do? It makes me want to celebrate Christmas even more! (Not to mention put more Christ centered ornaments on my great big, artificial pre-lit QVC tree.) Okay, so I'm a pagan in Dianne's eyes. Big deal. Grateful for my freedom in Christ!! Merry Christmas everyone! Leigh Anne (Message edited by grace_alone on December 24, 2011) | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 2022 Registered: 6-2006 |
MJ, Praise God ~ so happy for you!  L.A. |
