| Author | Message | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 528 Registered: 2-2010 |
Check this out! http://youtu.be/4pIofTDMjv4 | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 912 Registered: 8-2008 |
The very fact that he admitted that many of us left for theological reasons--even though he incorrectly describes and impugns the reasons--severally threatens his career as an SDA pastor. You're not supposed to admit anyone leaves for doctrinal reasons. Also, his use of Lev. 4:27 is a joke. He conveniently leaves out v 28, which puts the text in an Old Covenant sacrificial context. (Message edited by BSKILLET on January 03, 2012) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13275 Registered: 12-2003  |
I admit this guy is raising my figurative blood pressure...we're listening to his sermon as I type. We've heard the "part 2" and are listening to "part 1". It is deeply disturbing to me to hear him referring to Scripture (out of context) and subtly but persistently twisting it. He's going on about his belief that the saved will receive a "special seal" of God besides the Holy Spirit. Sure, he believes all Christians will be sealed with the Holy Spirit, but he "has learned that in the last days" there will be 144,000 who will receive a Special Seal "that not all Christians receive"... He's a false teacher. Colleen | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 847 Registered: 1-2007 |
Good grief he sounds like he is taking a lesson from the JW's where the 144,000 are concerned. They teach that only those who feel they are part of the 144,000 can take part in communion. In other words the special seal. | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 1031 Registered: 5-2009 |
He didn't prove the IJ at all! Just proved that there are judgements taught in the Bible (white throne, Bema seat). At the end, he affords SDAs salvation "even if they're wrong", because they have Jesus, but doesn't extend the same courtesy to former adventists! | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 431 Registered: 2-2006 |
I did not get past my "Oh help. Oh please!" stage. I had to turn it off for my own sanity. It is still amazing to me how SDA sermons release every emotion in me. None good. AAARRRGGG!!!! There I feel better. Cathy cathoosier@gmail.com | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9557 Registered: 3-2004  |
Cathy2, I listened to his first few sentences and turned it off also. He twisted it all up at the very beginning of the sermon. Yuck!! Diana | ||
| Leonie Registered user Username: Leonie Post Number: 31 Registered: 10-2011 |
Honestly, this guy is not trustworthy...... He lost me right at the beginning - after listening maybe 10 minutes, I found that there are better ways to spend my time! Where does he get it all from???? Monica | ||
| Trans4mer Registered user Username: Trans4mer Post Number: 96 Registered: 9-2011  |
This guy is a veteran spec. ops. historic SDA. What a world class jack-ass. Guess the audience thought he was giving the 'straight testimony'. Anyone recall that crap? Charles | ||
| Goose Registered user Username: Goose Post Number: 63 Registered: 11-2011  |
I also found it backwards, the words behind the pulpit, "Steps to Life." Reminds me of a book so absurdly titled, "Steps to Christ." It isn't us who went in search of God. He came down in search of us. What a fantastic leap God took, down into a human body. Steps to Life. Steps to Christ. Works. Many poor soul Adventists are so sadly going to hear those worlds of Jesus, "Depart, I never knew you." | ||
| Goose Registered user Username: Goose Post Number: 64 Registered: 11-2011 |
Where is any hope in this fellows message? Even the kids that sang before the sermon looks so pitiful and had no joy in them at all! That's child abuse. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9560 Registered: 3-2004 |
Goose, you are so right. God comes looking for us. Just before I left adventism I was not looking to leave it. In fact I wanted to be rebaptized as I wanted to belong somewhere and adventism was all I knew. I had not questioned adventism most of my life. I questioned the legalism of it once I got into a 12 step program. God came looking for me! I am so thankful He did. If it had been left to me I would still be an sda. Diana | ||
| Goose Registered user Username: Goose Post Number: 65 Registered: 11-2011 |
Yes. Diana. It isn't us making "Steps to Christ," or as in this SDA preachers theme behind the pulpit, "Steps to Life." God comes looking for us. And there is a very touching example of this in John 9, with the man born blind. The religious leaders threw him out of the synagogue with the words "you were altogether born in sin." That is a real spiritual wounding. Further on we read a most marvelous and tender thing about God. It says that when Jesus had heard he had been thrown out of the synagogue He went and looked for Him. From this we can conclude that God is very interested; compassionate towards those who have suffered a spiritual wound,..and comes looking for us! What a wonderful Savior! (Message edited by goose on January 06, 2012) | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 2026 Registered: 6-2006  |
Goose, thanks for that reminder. You blessed me just now.  To God be all the glory! Not a church, not a "sabbath truth", not a list of instructions... Leigh Anne | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7552 Registered: 9-2006  |
I think it is entirely possible that former Adventists themselves are a warning for a people to get back on track. I think God deals with a whole people, even whole nations as well as individuals. I think it is entirely possible that the former Adventists stands as a witness against them. I gave the very same set of scriptures as Goose mentioned as a word of comfort to this group a couple years ago and following that, when I spoke to my church group this is what I felt to use. People can deride that all they want too, but I know at the time it was not me, but the Holy Spirit speaking through to give that word of comfort. The leaders of that day probably sealed their fate when they ignored the miracle. It starts in John 9:1 and proceeds to John 9:39. Notice in part of it says, John 9:16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Would God call fifteen million people to get back on track? I'll leave that answer to others that know, but you see the answers to the Adventist 'Former' plight? The leaders respond to the 'Former Adventist' with the same answer that came back in John 9:16, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. I have often wondered why God would pull people out of the Adventist church and scatter them throughout the denominations and independent churches. It just dawned on me that one answer could be the Adventist cannot pin them down, just about time they deal with one over here another pops up over there. I don't pretend to even remotely know what God is doing, but it just seems strange that they would video this. I didn't watch the whole video so I may be jumping to conclusions, a fact which I find myself doing frequently. What strikes me too is the lack of spirituality in that place, I have a video someplace of another Adventist service one of my Adventist acquaintances sent me and the deadness is identcal. In fact it was the same look on faces in Roseburg. The Adventist that came in there looked like they had been rode hard and put up wet. As my old grandpappy used to say, "Dead as a doornail." I never have figured out why a doornail is dead. River (Message edited by river on January 07, 2012) | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1467 Registered: 7-2004  |
River, I really loved this observation. You posed one possible reason, and I hope you will allow me to pose a couple more: SDAs are heavily entrenched in the "One True Remnant Church" philosophy, rejecting all others as either not really Christian or, at best, lesser Christian who need to grow into what we know. The first reaction of many SDAs on leaving is finding that True Church that is perfectly faithful to the Gospel and all of Scripture. The disillusionment of learning that all churches are made up of flawed people with imperfect teachings and practices is a necessary step in learning that all Believers are equally my brothers and that all churches teaching the Gospel are part of the body of Christ. If Former SDAs all followed the same path into exactly the same church we probably wouldn't learn this important lesson about the Universal Church. Former SDAs have a great deal to learn and to unlearn, so we need to be careful not to think too highly of ourselves in our new church homes. At the same time, many Former SDAs have a passion for keeping the Gospel free of any works and a passion for direct study from the Bible that can be a beneficial and refreshing voice in their new church homes. We know where the path of legalism leads, so we may speak up and warn people when they are inadvertently exploring that pathway (although we need to learn not to cry "wolf" at every little step, but that is part of the healing process). So by spreading Formers around like seeds in a number of different settings, God can use our experiences to impact even more people. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13286 Registered: 12-2003 |
River, and Rick, I agree with your analyses. I do believe God uses former Adventists to help their new Christian fellowships to camp on the gospel and avoid the natural tendency toward legalism of all kinds and also as a warning, as you said, River. And I also think God scatters us so we don't "cocoon" and inadvertently retain a warp that reflects our SDA worldview. The longer I interact with former Adventists, the more certain I am that if we don't put ourselves in Christian communities where people have never been SDA, we probably won't unpack all our unconscious presuppositions. We retain all sorts of skews. We need both: interaction with others who've been there and who have not ignored their heritage but have consciously "unpacked" it, and study with those who don't know our skew. We're part of the body now, and we all need each other. God uses us! Colleen | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1734 Registered: 12-2007  |
<3 love and agree with this whole thread ! <3 | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9567 Registered: 3-2004 |
Looking back at when I first left adventism I did not know what I wanted or needed. I remembered a text somewhere in the NT that said not to forget to gather together. So I started visiting churches on Sunday. In March 2004 I found this website. Oh, how I wished then that there were other former sdas for me to meet with. God had other ideas. He put me in this BIG church where I would meet all kinds of Christians. I am glad he did. He never gives to me, or anyone else, something they cannot handle. I learned a lot about Christianity there and now am off to another church. I have been there a little less than a year now. Love it! Diana | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2319 Registered: 7-2007 |
Goose; you said that many poor Adventist souls are going to hear Jesus say: "Depart, I never knew you." Adventists are so busy striving to obey Ellen White's command to overcome sin; so busy trying to please God and get saved, that they miss the obvious. These verses really sum up WHY Jesus won't know them: Ephesians 1:13-14 says: "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." and... Romans 8:9 says: "You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him." God communicates to us through His Holy Spirit Who dwells in the believer. A person in a cult, though they might strive for salvation their whole life, has never accepted Jesus' free gift, has never accepted His finished work; and therefore doesn't have the Spirit, so of course God doesn't "know" them. It really makes me sad.  | ||
| Goose Registered user Username: Goose Post Number: 66 Registered: 11-2011 |
My thread, below, is also applicable to this discussion. http://www.formeradventist.com/discus/messages/11/11982.html?132560909 | ||
| Sharon3 Registered user Username: Sharon3 Post Number: 150 Registered: 2-2010 |
I confess I listened to the whole video. I actually felt ill inside. In the end he really laid out the fear and guilt. This video is evidence that FAF is making an impact on Adventism. They are on the defense and their defense is really faulty. I visit with Adventist friends and family and they assure me that Adventism isn't the way it was when I grew up and that it is really changing. This video is proof to me that Adventism isn't changing. It was obvious to me that he hasn't really read all of FAF literature or hasn't really studied the Bible in context. I'm reading in Jeremiah now and he refers to "uncircumcised ears" 6:10 Also Jeremiah talks about "wicked men; They lie in wait as one who sets snares; They set a trap; They catch men. As a cage is full of birds, So their houses are full of deceit." 5:26. I read these verses the next morning after hearing the video. His tactics felt like "snares and traps". Diana, I am still working in Celebrate Recovery and I have recently discovered that it was the 12 steps that freed me from the first rope of bondage from Adventism. I hadn't intended to leave either. ______________________________________________ quote: The longer I interact with former Adventists, the more certain I am that if we don't put ourselves in Christian communities where people have never been SDA, we probably won't unpack all our unconscious presuppositions. We retain all sorts of skews. We need both: interaction with others who've been there and who have not ignored their heritage but have consciously "unpacked" it, and study with those who don't know our skew. _______________________________________________ Colleen, I liked this comment. I love having the filter off and being able to hear teachers teaching the Bible in context. I still need my Christian friends to look at me strangely when I bring up some skewed position. I haven't been in FAF fellowship recently and the forum was my only way to vent these comments and feelings. I loved this thread. Thanks, Sharon | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9588 Registered: 3-2004 |
Sharon3, I like to say it was the 12 step programs that cleared the cobwebs of adventism from my brain. Because of that, when Jesus said follow me out of adventism, I did it with no questions or hesitation. Thank you awesome God. Diana L |
