| Author |
Message |
Christo
Registered user
Username: Christo
Post Number: 295
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 9:16 pm: |     |
Jesus is the Truth, and always has been. It is always a tremendous help to realize your need for a Savior.
SDAs spend an awful amount of time trying to conceal the obvious, that they too are sinners. If they could they would prefer to save themselves.
I provoked a sabbath school teacher to carry out his logic to the ridiculous , and state before the class that we didn't even need a Savior if only we WOULD be good enough. I never returned.
Washed by His Blood,
Chris |
Truman
Registered user
Username: Truman
Post Number: 19
Registered: 1-2012
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 10:24 pm: | |
Well yes, those SDAs who still believe in Ellen White's version of the time of trouble believe they will not have Jesus as a mediator during that time. So therefore they have to attain perfection before then. Is it any wonder they are so obsessed with "religious liberty" (i.e., no Sunday law, as that begins their time of trouble), and so afraid of "the time of trouble"? It never made any sense to me. (Note: My sense is that most SDAs in the U.S. under the age of about 75 don't believe this.) |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 1536
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 6:12 am: | |
Asurprise,
What makes your few doctrines critical to know about Jesus before you can be saved and the others non-critical? You can't say Scripture, because Scripture addresses every one of these doctrinal ,issues as well, and it doesn't provide any lists of salvational and non salvational doctrines. Creating such a list isn't much different than creating a list of mortal and venial sins.
You have said that belief in transubstantiation prevents you from salvation because it is believing inn the wrong Jesus. I disagree.
You have said that belief in infant baptism prevents you from salvation because it is believing in the wrong Jesus. I disagree.
You have linked all kinds of doctrines to your definitions of the right Jesus. You pick and chokes which doctrines belong in your list and which do not. But no matter how you slice it, you have made salvation dependent on a work of knowledge, not on faith alone.
So Skeeter, I am sorry to say that there is still nothing that I can agree with in Asurprise's post. It isn't anything different than the previous points it just didn't include all of the doctrines that go along with "the Jesus Who cannot save you". |
Philharris
Registered user
Username: Philharris
Post Number: 2648
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 6:37 am: | |
At age six all I knew about was about Jesus, my Savior, is that he loved me and died to save me from my sins. Nobody had to tell me I was a sinner that needed a Savior.
I knew nothing of doctrines, good, bad or otherswise. I am saved simply because he adopted me and brought me into the Kingdom of God.
As one of our other posters like to remind us, it doesn't get much simpler than that.
PS
I love bible study and knowing the importance of good doctrines that support the gospel message. But, none of that ever saved me from my sins.
Phil |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 1537
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 8:02 am: | |
Phil,
Thanks. That is the kind of faith Gospel that I understand as well. I have a passion for Bible study and solid doctrine, but I believe this passion is th result of salvation, not a necessary pre-requisite. |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 1784
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 12:00 pm: | |
"Romans 10:8-10
8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
"John 3:23-24 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us."
Why do we always try and make it harder than this ? Believe and Love. If we do this the "details" will work out themselves.
Francie |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 13346
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 1:01 pm: | |
God saves us. He makes us realize we need a Savior, and He makes Jesus real to us and gives us the faith to trust Him. We just can't dissect HOW this happens. Knowing Jesus makes His word come alive, and His word teaches us the truth about Him.
Ultimately we have to live with some "mystery"; God doesn't explain the details of the process. When we are born again, however, we know we are born again!
And yes, I'm pretty much a stickler for correct doctrine because incorrect doctrine can lead searchers down the wrong path and can even take true believers off the track into bondage for a time (ask Rick about converting to Adventism and then moving out of it). But Jesus is faithful, and He knows how to confront us with Himself.
Our "job" is to respond to His call to us to believe.
Colleen |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2366
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 6:24 pm: | |
I have said before many times.
EVERYTHING WRONG and JESUS RIGHT = SALVATION
EVERYTHING RIGHT and Jesus WRONG = LOST
The Jesus that saved Phil as a little boy was the RIGHT Jesus because He died for Phil's sins.
The Bible warns of a false gospel and a false jesus!
"For if he who comes preaches ANOTHER JESUS Whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not receied, or a different gospel which you have not accepted--you may well put up with it!" 2nd Corinthians 11:4
Why? If any Jesus can save you?
Why do we need the truth if believing a lie can save you??
You must have as the object of your faith a Jesus that CAN save you that did pay for your sins and reconcile you to God.
Can jesus the brother of satan save you?
Can jesus/ michael the archangel save you?
Can jesus who is investigating your sin instead of washing you in His blood save you?
Can jesus who must be sacrificed over again and again and still leave you to do pennance and be purged in purgatory save you?
No!!! These are alll counterfeits. They are all false jesuses
The Bible says What must we do to be saved?
Answer Believe on HIm WHOM God has sent.
Who did God send, the counterfeit jesus of the cults or His own beloved Son.
Only ONE Jesus can save you. Only the true Jesus can save you. He being both fully God and man could be the mediator between God and man. Only He being sinless could pay the sin debt of the world.
Only believing in Him will save you from and eternity without God.
That is ALL the doctrine you need to know to be saved. That is all Phil knew the Jesus that loves him and died for his sins.
Jesus said: "I Am the Truth and the Way."
(Message edited by Asurprise on January 24, 2012) |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2367
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 6:32 pm: | |
This isn't a bunch of doctrines this is ONLY ONE doctrine. To boil it down to it's most basic, is this: A cardboard "Jesus" will NOT save you! All the cults have "cardboard" jesuses. Otherwise, everybody in the cults would be saved! |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 1543
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 9:18 pm: | |
quote:I have said before many times.
EVERYTHING WRONG and JESUS RIGHT = SALVATION
EVERYTHING RIGHT and Jesus WRONG = LOST
Yes, Asurprise, I am well aware of what YOU have said many times. What I am interested in isn't what YOU say, it is what SCRIPTURE says.
quote:This isn't a bunch of doctrines this is ONLY ONE doctrine.
We could argue just how many doctrines you try to squeeze into your just ONE doctrine, but that really doesn't matter. It is the same things as saying it isn't a bunch of works that we must do, it is only ONE work. Or that it isn't a bunch of laws we must follow it is only ONE law. As soon as you start to add requirements to the Gospel that involve what we must do you are creating the same "Yes, but..." gospel that the cults have created.
quote:Otherwise, everybody in the cults would be saved!
Ah yes, the universalism card again. We have been down that road before Asurprise.
Let's face this one head on. Plenty of people in legitimate churches don't really have a trusting faith in Christ, so why would anyone think that everyone in cults would have that?
I think that what you fail to realize is that God is active in this world directly reaching out to people through His Spirit. The cult may be teaching a cardboard Jesus but that doesn't keep God from directly reaching to that person. They may not understand everything about the right Jesus when God reaches out to them, but through His Spirit, in accordance with His timing, they will have truth revealed. You present a view where the cults are more powerful than God. |
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