| Author | Message | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1436 Registered: 5-2007 |
Greetings, I recently read an interesting book by Pastor Joseph Prince called Destined to Reign. Currently, I am mid-way into another book by Pastor Charles Stanley called Eternal Security. Part of what I have grasped in these books are, we are not under the law system, not under condemnation and if we have accepted Christ, we have assurance of salvation. Though I still have some doubts about unconditional permanent salvation, I at least have moved towards the belief that salvation is more assured than I once thought. Being about Christ's finished work are His preexisting love for us instead of anything we can do to redeem ourselves. Evidently, the debates around what God expects of us in our walk with Him is what religion and doctrines are about. I heard a comment today on the radio. 'The problem with today's church, we know too much and do too little.' Amen to that. How do the 'need to know' traps get formed in the first place?! I know from my own experience it is born from a loss of confidence in my old belief system and the vacuum it left behind. Anyway, I still find the need to explore and test proposed truths. Not really sure where any of it may lead, but perhaps it will come together one day. In Pastors Stanley's book, he explains that while salvation in Christ is not something we can lose, we will however all face a judgement day where the record of our lives will be reviewed. Where the works of evil, waste, vanity, and all other wrongs will be consumed in fire. In contrast to this, we will also be rewarded for the good things about the record of our life. Then, he applied the passage about weeping and gnashing of teeth, outer darkness and deep regret of consequences that will fall on those who while saved, (barely in some cases) , will be relegated to the lowest ranks or status in heaven. I assume that means, there may be occupational or status levels in heaven. Some will be menial , others more honored, having greater power and or responsibility. Possibly even greater authority over others ? What occured to me is that with this type of premise and it's ensuing motivation, it comes across to me as yet another race for gain, for presitige , honor and in a sense vanity. In addition to that, scripture says there will be no more tears, pain or suffering. Yet , the above gnashing of teeth at the judgement seems to contradict that. It may be that the end of pain occurs at a point past the judgement induction period. I wonder also, does this mean that a low rank, low assigned or (possibly punished) soul who is saved will ever be able to restore and rebuild their standing in the heavenly community? A lot of these barely made it folks will come from pretty screwed up lifes here on Earth. Will they be menial for eternity? Looking at the teaching; While our sins after being "saved" will not lose our salvation, we better get busy if we do not want to end up in a menial regret ridden life in heaven. I had always felt that if God saves me , and most of my works are burned up, then somehow, over time, I could work my way back to His favor,(maybe this is a Catholic mindset) re-earn His love, His respect. I could not do it right here, but maybe when this old system is gone, things can eventually be the way they were meant to be for all of us. The idea that there will be a performance based system of societal standing seems to me to be just more of the same we have here. I am not saying I don't get it. I am saying, being beat down in one life is enough. Not in heaven too. Jim02 | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 377 Registered: 2-2011 |
Jim,~ Remember~ that our "own" works of the "flesh" are as "filthy rags"~ only the things that are done in the"Spirit from GOD" will count~ We do not have to worry~ GOD is Sovereign~HE will deal in mercy and justice~ I read 'Eternal Security' while I was 'coming our of adventism'~ it was a great help to me~ ~mj~ | ||
| Truman Registered user Username: Truman Post Number: 71 Registered: 1-2012 |
Well... not trying to be a smart aleck, but would you rather have a menial rank in heaven, or a lofty rank in hell? On a more serious note, being cast into outer darkness is not believed by most to mean being cast into a slum section of heaven. The idea of viewing your position in heaven from a vain perspective doesn't make sense to me. It's not about you, in the big picture; it's about God, and what He has given to us. When we stand before Him and grasp the full magnitude of this, I have no doubt that we will regret many things - not because we will be heavenly janitors, but because we will realize just how foolish we were, and how much God did for us. (Message edited by truman on February 18, 2012) | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1828 Registered: 12-2007  |
I believe the "gnashing of teeth,etc. will be by those who are in the outer darkness of HELL and certainly NOT going on anywhere in Heaven. Or else it would not be Heaven. | ||
| Starlabs Registered user Username: Starlabs Post Number: 80 Registered: 5-2011 |
Are there really different levels of rewards in Heaven? What verses support that concept. That one is new to me. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1830 Registered: 12-2007 |
I dont believe there are.... otherwise it takes us right back to the WORKS concept. I believe Heaven with Jesus IS the "reward" we will be rewarded equally..... like the workers who worked for a long time and the ones who had little work done but got "paid" the same. To me, the "reward" which is a undeserved GIFT,is eternity with Jesus and our loved ones.  | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1831 Registered: 12-2007 |
Anything more is icing on the cake | ||
| Starlabs Registered user Username: Starlabs Post Number: 81 Registered: 5-2011 |
Well that's what I believe too, Skeeter. Jesus is our reward! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7735 Registered: 9-2006  |
Corinthians I 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. There will be no inequality because the bible declares there is no respecter of persons with God. Yet it will be revealed to us where we were wrong I think. But don't take that check to the bank just yet. | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1437 Registered: 5-2007 |
My hope and belief about heaven has always been things will finally be made right. Psalm 84:10 New International Version (NIV) 10 Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. J: I do not care about position or rank. I never thought of heaven that way. Just to know His love on a singular level. The privelege to even be there is infinitely enough. I would expect that the servants of God will and should be honored and recongized in heaven. I would also hope that God has made provision to restore those called the least individually to our full potentials, to His glory, for His purpose. 1 Cor 2:9 NIV “What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived” the things God has prepared for those who love him— J: I don't have the right words to express this. I don't want to view heaven as a competition concept. If indeed, the entire basis is love. Then Love will take care of the why. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 379 Registered: 2-2011 |
If anyone is interested in reading up on this subject~it is about the 'Bema Seat' of Christ~ ~mj~ | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 2044 Registered: 6-2006  |
During our lecture in BSF last night, our leader referred to the Christian judgement as a "fruit inspection". While we are covered by the blood of Christ, we will also be judged by the fruit we produced. 2 Corinthians 5 Leigh Anne |
