| Author | Message | ||
| Gregkleinig Registered user Username: Gregkleinig Post Number: 62 Registered: 12-2010 |
G'day all. Although I joined in when the "ordnance of humility" was held I always felt we were missing the point. My reasoning is as follows; when Peter realized that this was something big he asks Jesus to wash his whole body. Jesus responds by saying you've already washed your body, only your feet are dirty. We realize/know that they wore sandals or nothing on their feet so of course they were dirty. He (Jesus) was ministering to a real need. In the Western World at least we come to church with our feet washed and in socks and shoes so therefore they are clean. Hence by default have no need of being washed. I think Jesus was setting an example of ministering to people's real needs. Washing people's feet when they are shod and clean to me is totally missing the point. It would have been more profitably spent in discovering people's real needs and working towards solving/helping those. Maybe this subject has been done to death but I've never read anything on the subject. I hope I'm not stepping on toes. If so I will put a plaster (band aid) on. Sorry. Pathetic Aussie humour. | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 1101 Registered: 5-2009 |
I agree, Greg. I always thought it was missing the point to wash clean feet, too. And a great many members left the church when we were dismissed to go to foot-washing. It was a silent ritual, too, mostly. And especially strange to wash people's feet through their pantyhose. I like the idea of actually finding out real needs and being a servant that way--but I know that I basically didn't open up about my real needs because if I did, the whole church ended up knowing about it. That and the unstated belief that if you were tithing, God would not let you go through hard times--so if you WERE going through any financial hard times it was kind of (unspoken) assumed you were maybe not being "faithful" in tithing. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13537 Registered: 12-2003  |
Sigh. Nowisee, yes. Greg, very good point. Colleen | ||
| Neweyes Registered user Username: Neweyes Post Number: 14 Registered: 9-2011 |
Do other churches not do foot washing? Is this unique to SDA? I assumed that all Christian churches had this as part of communion. I always felt uncomfortable when participating in the foot washing service, it was just one more thing that made me feel hopeless, because I never felt blessed or forgiven afterward. I felt like a fake just going through the mottions. It always reminded me how spiritually dead I felt inside. I am so thankful to be spiritually alive! Today, I realized that I love Jesus, I mean really love Him. It's not just words to say in a prayer because I am supposed to love Him. I truly feel like my heart is opening and growing...and I know it's Jesus! I feel overwhelmed with gratitude. I adore Him. He is everything! New eyes | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 428 Registered: 2-2011 |
I just have to say~what I remember most about "foot-washing" (which began for me after I was baptized at 11 years of age)was~~ my Mother always made sure I had removed my RED toenail polish on the Friday afternoon before the upcoming sabbath! How sad is that?  ~mj~ | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2688 Registered: 5-2007  |
I believe the example of foot washing by Jesus demonstrated something very opposite of Adventist teaching. Keep in mind that the context was the upcoming Passover when Jesus, as our Passover, would atone for our sins and “cover” our sins for one time for all eternity. Once you are ‘clean’ (righteous) by the blood of the Passover (Jesus is our Passover) all that is needed is the surrendering of your daily uncleanness to your Passover because we still do sin while we walk in this sin filled world. Once you are saved and in the Kingdom of God your whole body does not need another bath because it is already eternally clean. You just need to have your ‘feet washed’ from walking in a dirty (sin filled) world. Phil | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7837 Registered: 9-2006  |
The example that Jesus was giving was that we should serve one another in humility. Peter missed the point when he said "You shall never wash my feet." The old pride came rearing its ugly head. Jesus said no servant is above his master. Matthew 20:28 even as the Son of man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." So ought we to serve in the same humility of spirit and not be lifted up in false pride over those who have less of whatever. Peter still didn't get it when he said to wash not only his feet but his head. He wanted to get it and he did later when Jesus told him that when he was converted to feed his sheep. Jesus said it wasn't necessary because the lesson had been taught, the lesson was not to remove dust and grime the lesson was to remove pride and in humility serve one another. Again, a servant is not above his master. Having a foot washing is perfectly ok as long as it is made plain what the lesson is all about. I get the point too when the abuse of scripture has made you gunshy. I get that, but there's no use in running away screaming if true born again Christians want to hold a foot washing to teach the Bible lesson in serving one another in humility of spirit and mind. I've been present at one foot washing in my life and I've never forgotten that lesson, it was a blessing then and it still is today. River (Message edited by river on March 28, 2012) | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1712 Registered: 7-2004  |
I have to agree with River on this one. The message was about being a servant. The problems with foot washing in SDAism are: The meaning attributed to it, The aspect of considering it a required element of the New Covenant observance. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13540 Registered: 12-2003 |
Adventist footwashing is a variation of the Catholic ritual of confession before communion. Traditional Catholic doctrine requires confession prior to communion. Adventist footwashing was often characterized as a "mini-baptism", a sort-of "refresher" cleansing that we needed to go through as we searched our hearts and confessed every sin before we "took the elements". Foot washing symbolized the confession and "absolution", if you will, of those sins before we took communion. For all their professed antagonism toward Catholicism, Adventism is, under the hood, very much like it. Colleen | ||
| Gregkleinig Registered user Username: Gregkleinig Post Number: 63 Registered: 12-2010 |
Great thoughts. Thankyou all. Nowisee. Your comment on tithing jogged a memory. On the 23 November 1993, we lost all our crop from a very hot, very strong wind. It was our best crop ever and would have seen us out of debt. Big debt. As I poured out my bewildered, confused hurts to my fellow church members in an afternoon meeting of elders and deacons and wives, I was told over and over that I clearly had been cheating God on tithes and must have secret sin in my life because clearly it was a punishment from God in their opinion. Almost everybody had a turn at being a 'Job's comforter'. Not one single person had a caring or kind word for me. I dont know whether you are familiar with the saying; "as poor as a church mouse.". Well we were so poor, at that time, also with 5 little boys, that we would have been grateful for help even from church mice. But all we got was bags full of condemnation. (at the time we were very, very consiencious tithe payers, and returned our pitiful tithe from genuInely grateful hearts). Now many years later I have recently been reliably told from different people that a very wealthy chap that I worked for for a total of almost 2 years, without so much as even a single dollar of pay (more fool me, but he kept promising and I kept believing and working) had all the time been telling people that I owed him lots of money. That was 27 years ago. I heard that he is still telling this story. I went and spoke to him face to face, 2 weeks ago, as per Mat 5 & 18, and reminded him of the facts. His wife agreed I had never been paid. The point of the story is that this man used to wash my feet and send me home to a beggars existence. More fool me. He is an elder in the SDA church now. He is an extreme example. I hope. Much better to have been defrauded than to have been defrauding. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7840 Registered: 9-2006 |
Gregkleinig, I am so sorry you had to go through something like that. It pulls the sheep hide off the wolf and reveals Adventism for what it is. The spirit behind that thing is so malignant it is beyond words. I don't mean to say that every individual is malignant, but the controlling spirit behind it is, and it hates to be revealed for what it is. River | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 2051 Registered: 6-2006  |
Hi Neweyes, Not sure if anyone answered your question, but most mainstream Christian do not have a footwashing ritutal. I guess on occasion there may be one, but not on a regular basis. I am a never-been and have visited many different denominations. SDA is the only organization that I've ever encountered with a foot washing.  Leigh Anne p.s. Here's a neat commentary from Bible Gateway which covers Jesus washing Peter's feet ~ http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/John/Jesus-Washes-Disciples-Feet | ||
| Nowisee Registered user Username: Nowisee Post Number: 1105 Registered: 5-2009 |
Greg, yes, I understand totally. Personally, I have had several experiences with financially dishonest adventists in my family of origin. I respect you for going to that man and talking to him face to face. That took courage. Did he do the right thing? |
