| Author | Message | ||
| Freeatlast (Freeatlast) |
Sabra, your comment about your family saying that you're closer to God than ever before struck a chord. Everybody who knows me well says the same thing, that I'm nowhere near the same person I was a couple of years ago, that nobody would know who was who hadn't talked to me. But, obviously, you've never met Mom...LOL You see, her dream has been for all of her children to ascend the SDA ladder and sit on thrones in Takoma Park (the Media Center in Simi Valley in my case). To her, anything in my life short of reconciling with my ex-wife, quitting my secular (and thus not subject to God's best blessings)job to work at the Media Center, and breathing my last from the pulpit at an SDA campmeeting, will be failure in her eyes. I'm over it now, but it took 37 years. She's the focus of my compassion now, however. She is so blind and burdened by guilt that she knows nothing of receiving it herself or, as a result of that necessary experience, extending it to others. I truly pity her and pray for her desperately to receive Christ's redemption. The section about tea drinking in My copy of "Counsels on Diets and Foods" (which she gave me years ago)is literally illegible because of highlighting, redlining (and probably a few smeared tears of shame too.) She's English and felt guilt for having a cup of tea with my English Grandmother on her 100th Birthday. All I can think is "Gnats and camels, gnats and camels". She needs our prayers! | ||
| Trippllb (Trippllb) |
Freeatlast, this weekend my prayers are so focused on this struggle. Ever moment I think about it, I say a small prayer. I am praying that the holy spirit will work in her life. I am praying that she will read the materials you put in front of her and that her eyes may be opened to what is really in the bible. I'm praying that she will look at the bible and not at EGW for guidance. And more importantly, I am praying that you will have the holy spirits guidance if and when she questions you about your walk with Christ. I pray that the words you speak are not yours, but that of the Lord himself working through you. The odds of her coming out of legalism seem humanly impossible, but we're not relying on human power here. Rely on the healing power of the holy spirit. The odds of a legalistic historical adventist coming out of bondage are so high, but with his intervention, mountains can be moved. I am praying that the Lord will work in her heart as she reads these materials. | ||
| Thomas1 (Thomas1) |
Freeatlast, Your mom sounds like mine. She quoted EGW and the Bible in such a fashion that even she could not tell where one began and the other ended. When I left, she simply could not understand. Some few weeks before her death, she requested an "annointing". It was the biggest farce I've ever witnessed. THREE ordained SDA ministers officiated. As my mom sat wringing her hands and repeating softly to herself, "I hope I'm ready, I just hope I'm ready.", not ONE of them would tell her the sweet Gospel message that would have set her free. Much to the anger of the "sainted three", my brother insisted that I offer the final prayer of the service. I asked the Spirit to guide me, then in prayer thanked God for His gift of salvation. In words of thanks, I offered the Gospel and thanked Him for what we could be so assurd of. None of those ministers would assure her, or talk to me following the service, but it was worth it to see the tears in my mom's eyes when she told me, "I didn't know you were so close to Him." It saddens me to think that what she believed and held on to left her so cold and needing, but thank God that she was able to hear the Gospel before she died. In a small way, I believe she finally began to understand. Miracles can happen, even with legalists. Don't expect them, but don't be surprised if they do! Keep praying and living your faith with her. Never let anyone take your eyes or the conversation off of Jesus. That is one place where a legalist can not function. Blessings to you as you walk the walk. It is rocky and very painful, but trust Him. Always trust Him. In His Grip Always, Thomas <>< | ||
| Sherry2 (Sherry2) |
First FAF meeting in K-zoo is this Fri. night. Please pray. All involved have definitely had spiritual warfare going on. Thanks for your prayers. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
I am and will continue to pray, Sherry. I understand completely your statement about everyone involved being spiritually attacked. The fact that these things happen in relationship to FAF meetings, etc, is one of the things that personally convinces me that the church is truly a cult on which Satan has a claim. I am praying for you all. He who is for us is greater than he who is against us! (Remember when Elisha prayed that Gehazi's eyes be opened when Israel was facing enemy attack, and he saw thousand of chariots of warriors on the surrounding hills? You have those warriors, too!) Colleen | ||
| Sherry2 (Sherry2) |
A good reminder, Colleen. Sometimes being discouraged or succumming to this warfare junk is more about believing or not believing God's Power and ability of being in control. Have a great day, Sherry | ||
| Gentle1 (Gentle1) |
Hello, I'm new here, but I would like to ask for prayer for our church. It is a former SDA church, and when our pastor was fired from the conference a few years ago, probably 90% of us members left with him. We were already meeting in a Methodist Church, so we did not lose our meeting place and things went on pretty much as normal. This past February, our pastor left to plant new churches in another state. We hired a new pastor, who has now resigned saying that God is leading him elsewhere. He leaves the end of July. Losing two pastors in such a short time is going to be hard on us. Please pray that we will know God's leading for us, and that He will comfort and assure us during this transition time. Our associate pastor is a godly woman and will be stepping up to lead as pastor unless God shows us that He has other plans. Pray we will listen to God and obey Him! We need His guidance so much! Thank you! | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
We will pray for you, Gentle1. Is your church still meeting on Saturday? God has a plan for your congregation, and He will be faithful to unfold it! Colleen | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
We're praying for your congregation Grace1. This transition time could be something provided by the Lord to grow the members of the church body closer together or give a slightly newer direction. Maybe you'd like to share this with your fellow members. We heard a speaker, who is an expert in church growth, say that a church body goes thru 3 distinct phases: growth in numbers, consolidation (something happens that does a bit of sifting...those who aren't really of one mind with the rest of the body wander off to find the next new thing in their life, the rest experience the same time as a settling time, a time of realizing of a certainty that they are exactly where God wants them no matter what the present circumstances), and then great spiritual growth within the church. This cycle doesn't just happen once, but many many times. Our own church here is presently in a growth in numbers stage. It is stretching us. First of all to keep to our committment to make this a true church family. We have increased numbers attending by a fourth in the past 3 months. And it hasn't been from advertising, but just because of word of mouth and by the Lord miraculously directing people here. Actually, it comes as an answer to our prayer of many months that the Lord would bring in folks from the military post. We are really struggling to learn the names of these new folks and trying to make them feel at home, helping those already attending to get out of their own shyness shells and reach out to them. And trying to figure out how in the world to make use of the physical space we have available to us. (Part of this is involving stepping up our prayers that the Lord will move miraculously....that He will prod the Jehovah's Witnesses into a determination to move their cemetery off our church property....ours was originially a JW church.) So it is a time of growth spiritually for the body. We've also been thru the consolidation time where we lost a third of the congregation over a two week time period...while the pastor was out of the country! You know, I can honestly say that that period was an awesome time of spiritual growth for the church family as well. I honestly think the Lord allowed that specific timing so that the leaders of the church would be forced into a place where we had to draw together as a group to lean on God without any possibility of drawing on the pastor's wisdom or strength. It was an awesome time of making it clear that the church was not the pastor but the people (many of our members at that time were new to church life and needed to learn this lesson). There is an element of familial closeness in the whole church body that wasn't there before that time. Anyway, I related all of that to encourage you. Chances are huge that you will lose members thru this transition time. Don't let it rattle you. I believe one thing that got our church thru our last time of consolidation was that we were already in the middle of a month that had been encouraged to be a time of increased private prayer (not in groups, but as individuals) for the body. I can't encourage you enough to encourage the members of your church to be in prayer...not just for finding a pastor, but for the unity of the body, and it's direction. | ||
| Gentle1 (Gentle1) |
Thank you soooooooooo much for your prayers! Lydell, I, too have read about the various phases a congregation goes through. We at New Life have experienced all three stages before, and I know we will cycle through them again! Your words reminded me of this and were very encouraging! I would like your permission to print out your letter to show to the rest of the elders at our next elders' meeting next Wednesday. I think it would bless them, too! I know this can be a time of "binding and loosing" in a sense, as those who are meant to leave go elsewhere, and the rest of us are knit closer as a family. I will keep you all informed of our progress as we trasition this month. Blessings! :-) | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Gentle1óyou might also take courage from Clay Peck's story of Grace Place in Colorado. They, too, went through the stages Lydell describes above, and they are currently in a stage of growth. Clay's story is on our site, and you can also link to Grace Place's website from our home page. Praying for your congregation, Colleen | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Sure Gentle1. It would be great to know our experience might benefit someone else. Our church is young also, a bit less than 7 years. Another thing about those times you go through. It gives the leadership of the body time to re-evaluate if they are following the course the Lord has for your church body in particular. It's a great time to take a look back over the goals of the church....if you don't have goals, you're in trouble. Are you still on course? Do you need to change some things you are doing to keep to the course? Maybe you're doing some things that, in themselves, are great. But they just aren't things that will help your particular church meet it's goals. It's a good time to evaluate to discover if your group is getting bogged down in any avoidable ruts. What needs to change? Anything you have dropped doing that needs to be reinstated? Are you connected to another group for accountability and support? Have you not needed it in the past, but now can see a purpose in it? Where is that group? Should you actually be working with a different group? That sort of thing. It just seems to me that you aren't JUST in a place of seeking a pastor, you should take advantage of the opportunity to evaluate. It's also a God-given opportunity for the leaders to work on their communication with one another. Our church (we are a part of the Vineyard association of churches) is one that believes in showing forth ample grace to those who are struggling. It's something that is so necessary. But, our rought spot showed us that we needed to already have in place a more solid system of communication amongst the leaders (and the pastor, of course!) to be aware of potential problem, especially when the problem can be an individual. It's a tough thing to do: show the abundance of grace, never disintegrate into gossip or prejudicial behavior toward a person who appears to be beginning to cause a problem, always giving them every possible benefit of time and help to get a grip, and yet staying aware so that you can pray for guidance how to handle the stuff. Just your average body life! :-) | ||
| Gracehound (Gracehound) |
Hi guys, I have an interesting story to share that still blows me away about how Christ can work through people. I wasnít sure if I should post it under prayer requests for answers to prayer because this one fits both of those categories. I am not sharing this story to glorify myself in anyway. Everything here is to His glory and His glory alone. I was just the vessel he used to accomplish His purposes. I have had a family of 4 living with me the last week and a half. They have a very low income and their electricity was turned off. Like many, they make too much to qualify for help, but not enough to function when times get tough. I told them I didnít have any money to lend them, but that I did have a house with a guest room, a couch, and utilities and they were more than welcome to make full use of what we had to get them through. Well, itís been horribly hot and their house is a brick house, which ends up feeling like an oven by the end of the day. Make a long story short, they moved in with us for the entire time. Like most families they have their share of problems. The biggest problem is the husband is an alcoholic who is struggling with his addiction. He hasnít yet realized that an alcoholic canít have another drink the rest of their lives. He still thinks he can monitor himself and just not overdue it. His disease, coupled with the financial stress, has put a huge strain on the family. A few months ago his wife, at the end of her rope, tried church on for size. She went very faithfully for some time, but finally stopped when people were wondering ëwhyí God hadnít impressed it upon her to change the way she dresses in order to attend. The church she was involved in is VERY conservative, she, on the other hand, is not. During the time she was going to church, she accepted Christ as her savior and was baptized. I believe that she is saved, but very young in Christ. Today is their last day in our home, so we decided to have a small celebration on Saturday night. My husband brought his computer from his office to the house and he and her husband networked the computers together and played head to head computer games while the kids watched and participated. It gave their mother and I a great opportunity to share a few glasses (OK, more than a few glasses) of wine alone over a kitchen table without interruption. She told me about her abusive past and how her father was a highly moral upstanding member of a very prominent church in the area. She told me about how he would beat her after school, how the police did nothing when her brother called them and told them that Dad was ëkillingí her in the house. The police knocked, spoke to the father on the porch, but never went inside to see for themselves. He was, after all, a prominent man in the church, so he could never be abusing his daughter. Once they left, both she and her brother got beaten even worse because her brother called the police on him. She moved out on her 18th birthday and almost immediately was married to the man she is with now. Ten years have past, and while she has found ësafetyí, she has no ëstabilityí. Over the wine, we talked about God, abuse, and punishment. I told her that your view of your dominant parent is how you view God and explained to her that if her father was as she had described, her God was a punishing task-master who demanded perfection and had no love to offer her unless she was perfect. She agreed. I told her that God is a loving God, and not a punishing task-master. I told her that the record she keeps playing is actually her fathers words about her and not Gods words about her. We talked about how God could actually love someone and what real love and real grace were all about. I told her that God loved her and that maybe she had ended up under my roof for a reason. After all, she had just accepted Him as her Savior and maybe this was His way of starting her on a new path toward a personal relationship with him. She mentioned that she wanted to find a different church to attend but felt guilty because she was baptized into ëthatí church. I explained that you are baptized into the body of Christ and not to feel guilty for not feeling comfortable somewhere. She said she wanted to try other churches, but the friend who took her to that one doesnít want to go anywhere else and she doesnít want to go to church by herself yet. I told her that I didnít have a church ëhomeí either but had been praying for a long time that Iíd find one. I have been asking my brother to pray that Iíd find a ëchurch buddyí because I didnít want to go by myself and that maybe God had put ëherí in ëmyí path instead of ëmeí in ëherí path. The next morning (after an Advil and coffee) she asked me if I wanted to start going to different churches beginning next Sunday. The general idea is go check out tons of churches and see which one clicks. Iím not expecting weíll even end up in the same church. But weíre going to do what Iím dubbing a ëchurch walkí to check out every church we can until we are where God wants us. An interesting side-note is on Sunday night a neighbor came over and I mentioned what we were going to be doing. She got really excited and asked if she could do it with us because she didnít want to go alone but wanted a church home too. Her husband wonít go to church with her, but her little boy is going to VBS and is really loving it. She wants to start taking him but doesnít know where to go. And then there were 3! One of the things that I want to point out in this is that had I still been an Adventist, I wouldnít have told this woman about a loving God. I would have pointed at her glass of wine and told her about Ellen Whites words of warning on alcohol. In fact, there is a very good possibility that she never would have opened up like she did and I wouldnít have been bold enough to speak the truth if both of us hadnít have had a few glasses of wine. Iím have not reached the point in my walk with Christ that I speak his name ëboldlyí and tend to be private in my worship of him. I have known her for 10 years and have never felt like I could talk to her about Christ before. Iím not advocating the use of alcohol here, Iím just pointing out that God can use ANYTHING (including a not-so-bold Christian) to accomplish his purpose. As a result, I have an obvious prayer request. Please pray that weíll find the individual churches we are looking for and that God will work in all of our lives to put us exactly where he wants us. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Gracehound, I will certainly pray for the three of you (and your families!) to find a church home. I absolutely believe that God leads us to the churches and the fellowship where he wants us. Speaking of praying for a "church buddy," That is also a wonderful prayer. We watched a similar situation unfold. There was a talented and bright student at LLU who, in the course of things, had to come to Richard's office to do some work. This person was SDA but was searching for something more and visited Trinity church with us. Meanwhile, a bubbly, truly born-again (never SDA) dental hygiene student at LLU had begun attending Trinity on her own. She had been praying that God would bring someone into her life with whom she could go to church. Somehow, in the dorm, these two met. They began coming to church every Sunday, and God has done absolutely amazing things in the lives of each one. The SDA truly met Christ at a young adults event, and God is systematically bringing her closer to him and helping her face the issues of her Adventist upbringing. The hygiene student, who just graduated, has a heart for missions, and both of them recently spent a week, in conjunction with a Trinity program, ministering in a poverty-stricken village in Mexico. The two of them have formed a lasting friendship, and God is using their friendship to help both of them to grow. I am continually amazed (though I don't know why I continue to be!) at how God ordains events and effects our maturity and healing through his divine appointments. Colleen | ||
| Violet (Violet) |
Praise Jesus for your new found buddies. The Lord can use us in ways no one would imagine if we would just open our minds to others and not condemn them for their actions, becuase it makes us uncomfortable. Your story gave a perfect example of how what may be a sin one for (drunkeness) can be the tool God used to help one find a friend that will draw them closer to Christ. God--never underestimate the power  | ||
| Lori (Lori) |
Urgent Prayer Request!!! Please pray for my parents. My Mother seems to be suicidal--she feels that she has been a failure at everything in this life. Please pray for me. I need Spiritual wisdom. When I told them I was leaving the church three years ago I knew they would be upset but I thought things would get better--that they would see how I had grown Spiritually--and they would "get over it". The morning reveals yet more difficulties--is my Mother going to kill herself because I've left Adventism??? This is yet another sign of the very real "sickness" this organization breeds. Some one wanted to know if you have a right to be angry---I think you do. It makes me angry that this religion has so controlled the minds of its followers that they are in the depths of despair when one of their own leaves the SDA to follow Christ--to follow the Gospel. | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
My prayers are with you and your parents, Lori. This is a clear cry for help. Even if this is just a ploy to get her way with you, she is in deep trouble and you cannot ignore this. Please seek help in as many ways as you can. Prayer is essential, but action is needed as well. I do not know if you are located near her. If you are, GO! If not, go if you can. If not possible, call her many times each day. Do not talk about Adventism. Talk about your love for her. Talk about Jesusí love for her. Talk about her value to everyone around her. Tell her about her successes. Get her to talk to you or anyone else. If she will not talk to a counselor or therapist, maybe you should in order to help find practical things you can do to get through this. We all fail on our own. She probably does not see the alternative where the greatest success is found. I certainly agree about your analysis of where this despair originates. Further, you certainly have a right to feel hurt and angry. I am certain you will give your burden and anger to Jesus. I hope your mother will find out that she can do the same. Jerry | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Oh, one more little thing. You might want to find out if she has recently started new medication. My mother became suicidal when she started taking a certain new blood pressure medication. I do not remember which one. Fortunately she called me and we identified the problem over the telephone. She was able to resolve it with a call to her doctor the next day. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Lori, I'm praying for you and your mother, too. I hear you about your angeróI've thought often that Adventism either breeds mental illness at one end of the spectrum or total unbelief at the other. Are there any family members or friends near your mom that you can contact to check in with her? I will pray that your mom will be able to perceive God's love in her life and that she will be able to submit her pride of performance and anxiety about failure to Jesus and respond to his love with clarity. And I will pray that you will experience the deep peace of Jesus, knowing that he loves your mom and holds her in his hands. He is caring for her, and you can trust her to him. He will help you love her for him. Colleen | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Lori, I too am praying that through this experience your faith in God will be strengthened and that your Mom will find the peace that is found in "resting in Jesus." The problem you shared reveals the real problem with Adventism, control. That is why it is so hard to leave, and for others to let go. To trust you in the hands of God is to lose control and that is scary. May your mom experience God's grace even in this time of dispair. In His Grace Doug |
