| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Speakeasy, you will continue to be in my prayers. I will pray that you will be able to surrender all the things you have heard about God and the Bible and be able to listen to him and to read his word with no predetermined understanding in the way. We look forward to hearing from you again. Colleen | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Speakeasy, may I make a suggestion? Go back and start reading the Bible again, only this time begin with the book of Mark or John. And this time don't look for the rules and regulations, don't try to figure out the "what do I do abouts" or the "in the Old Testament it says". This time ONLY focus on how Jesus interacts with the people. Remember Jesus comment to the Pharisees? "You search the scriptures thinking that in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life." See, the thing is that we can spend so much time trying to piece together something in the scriptures, that we actually fall into the trap of losing sight of Christ altogether. We slip into relying on our own wisdom to sort stuff out. We are praying to be shown truth, and yet, we really aren't listening at all because we are busy thinking, "but what about this scripture, and these people say this, and what about that?" We are running here and there thru the scriptures and getting nowhere. See, it's as if your Father has given you a couple of really cool toys to play with, and instead of looking at them you go off yelling that you have nothing to do and try to poke around in an empty cupboard for a toy. There's a way out of the confusion, but it is contrary to our normal thinking. If we have tried to study a subject out in the scriptures but we reach the point of extreme confusion and frustration, then we have to STOP trying to figure it out. We have to go back to just learning about Him... what our Lord is like by looking at His perfect representation: Jesus. In the process of concentrating on looking anew at the character of Jesus, paying attention to the things He did, and how He treated people, HE gradually begins putting the pieces together for us. But He works on the pieces HE wants you to understand first. But for that to happen you have to go to Him and lay out all the questions. Admit that you are confused and frustrated and hopeless at figuring it out on your own. Then give them to Him! If you give them to Him, then they are His to take care of and that means that you have to take your hands off and keep them off. Ask the Spirit to help you just concentrate on Jesus for now and ask Him to unfold all this stuff for you. Yeah, it's hard to do!! It's a huge struggle for each of us. We keep wanting to run back and poke around in the cupboard. We do it often. And each time we have to make the conscious choice to remind ourselves that we gave that question to the Lord and are waiting for Him to answer and aren't going to stress over it...and then lay the question back down and step awar from it. It is only when we do this that we have opened our minds to begin hearing from Him on the things HE says are important. And we are always surprised I think. Because He will bring up things first that we hadn't considered important at all. When we get into confusion, it is because we have misunderstood something basic along the line. And we can't go back to it in our own wisdom, because we really don't have a clue where the starting point is. I struggled mightily over figuring out the state of the dead. Keep knocking my head against the wall mainly by looking up all the verse I could find on death, and what did this group say about it, and what did that group say about it, and why can't I figure this out. I had to do what I recommended above. And then it was the Lord that made me realize quite suddenly one day that I was beginning at the end of the question instead of the start: does man have a spirit and soul? When you've finished with the gospels, then start reading carefully thru Acts to see what He intended the church to be. How did they use what Jesus had taught them? When they spoke to people, what was their focus? Eventually it might help you to get a good book on the names of God. His names (Jehovah Jirah, Jehovah-shammah, El Shaddai, etc.) tell us about His character. And knowing His character is basic to understanding everything else the scripture has to say about doctrine. Knowing His character is key in understanding how He wants you to live your life. Don't give up! Life in relationship with the Lord is worth the struggle to lay down self and just listen! | ||
| Speakeasy (Speakeasy) |
Guys I have had 2 people that have contacted me. That i believe that God has sent to me. They want to help and one has much knowledge of legalistic things. So for now. God is answering my Prayers of the things I need to adress. I will keep you updated. Your prayers have been great. Speakeasy | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
GREAT! I think you might be interested in re-reading Hebrews Chapter 13 (especially verses 5 and 6) He is ALWAYS faithful, Jerry | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Speakeasy, I'm thrilled! My prayers for you will continue. Colleen | ||
| Janet (Janet) |
Praise the Lord, Speakeasy!!! Never give up, God is always working...He loves you more than you could ever know!!! I will keep you in my prayers also. Janet | ||
| Terryk (Terryk) |
Its me again everytime I think things are ok something else pops up. Well I just got a letter from a friend from SDA church who used to be our pastor right now he is next to the conference president. Well the letter stated he had missed us at church and he found out that my family and another family were no longer attending the SDA church. He said he would like to get together and hear our reasons for leaving he promised he would not defend or preach or give Bible study he just wants to know why people are leaving the church and what are they preaching or not preaching that is causing this. Well I called my friend and he received almost the same letter he says he will send the letter that he sent to the church to withdraw their names from the book with reasons and texts. This is hard I really do not know what to do myself we were all very good friends. Well pray that I again will do ehat Christ has in mind. It is so hard to talk with them because of their lack of knowledge in new testiment or new covenant. Well thanks for your prayers Terry | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Well, letís think about this, Terry. If all your pastor/friend needed was a list of reasons for leaving, donít you think a letter or survey answer would have sufficed? If we give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he is thinking that it is all about ìthe hymns are boring,î ìyou move around too much during the sermon,î ìyou changed the youth program to Tuesday night when it has always been Monday,î or ìyou donít allow enough time for announcements.î Something tells me that he is not going after this sort of information. I think your other friend had the right idea. For one thing, you donít seem ready to handle this if you are so worried about it. However, if you are convicted that you should reach out to this pastor/friend, do so with care and caution. This is a spiritual assault. In His care, Jerry | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Terry, I will also pray that you'll know what to do. If God wants you to talk to this man, He will make it possible and will give you the words to say. I think this man is curious because there really is a growing number of people who are leaving the church. When we left our pastor took us to lunch and asked us to explain why we were leaving. We told him our experience of studying the Bible and of discovering we could no longer believe the SDA doctrines. The pastor was polite, stopped himself at one point from arguing with us, and told us that as long as we weren't angry, he was OK with what we were doing. His reaction was, admittedly, unusual, but he is a remarkably liberal Adventist. We'll pray with you that you'll know whether or not you should talk to this man. Colleen | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
I'd agree with what Terry said about probably not doing it if you are that worked up about it. In trying to place myself in your situation, I believe my choice would depend largely on the relationship I had had with the person. Were we "good friends" in that we attended church together and spoke when we saw each other at church? In that case I would suspect that he was just going to try to put some emotional pressure on me to come back. Were we truly good friends who hung out together and spoke often away from church? That would prompt a far different response from me. If he was genuinely a close friend, then I would be only too happy to have the opening to sit down and tell him what you said way up there in another message you posted: "I would have to say I have learned more in the past few months just me and God and our studying together than in the past 27 years of being in church and at every function I could make." Terry, that's the key, your relationship with the Lord has changed, it has grown and has deepend. But could definitely go on to tell about your experience in church now....the joyful worship, the freedom, the scripture based messages you have heard, discovering there is more that unites you with other Christians than divides you from them, the love you see expressed in the wider Christian body, how you are now aware of the Lord teaching you and leading you. I think this dropping of the walls that divide is something that surprised us all a bit after leaving the SDA. Maybe you have noticed that suddenly you can listen to Christian radio and not be continuingly judmental. That now you are hearing about the ministry that the wider Christian church is engaged in reaching the world for Christ. That there is now no fear of the possible future. See, what you have to share is not just that you have been turned off by the doctrinal error in the church, but the difference that being freed from the error has made in your life, in how you feel now about your relationship with your Lord. Remember in the SDA mindset, your story is sure to be that you are miserable and doomed and surely must feel separated from the blessings of God. Instead, what we eventually have found after we left, is a freshness in our relationship with the Lord that is priceless. The dropping of the walls that divided us from fellow Christians, I believe, is something that takes us all a bit by surprise, and delights us no end. Anyhow, pray that the Lord will give you peace about which direction to go with this. I would make one suggestion tho. You should respond by letter even if you decide not to meet with him. This is an open invitation to plant some seeds. You won't know what the results of that may be down the road, if not in him, then maybe in someone overhearing a conversation if he mentions the letter or meeting to someone else. Terry, if you do write a letter, remember that you don't have to try to come across as someone who knows all the answers. The Lord has given you the personality, giftings, and way of expressing yourself that is right for you. So just say the most important things that are in your heart, with the Spirit's guidance. He may have had more "training" but you already now know that what he was taught was error. That means you are in the place of teacher, not the place of confused child. Our pastor is always telling us that if you don't know who you are (in Christ) then anyone can come along and convince you that you are junk. | ||
| Terryk (Terryk) |
Thank you all for your support and prayers. In answer to some questions yes we were pretty close as friends he was a very liberal SDA even to me talk about judging I think I spent most of the 27 years doing that. You were right also I can listen to radio and TV and just take a message from the Lord not sit there and say but what about the SAbbath ,state of the dead etc. It is avery freeing experience and I am thankful for your thoughts about talking about what a change it has made in my personal relationship with God and others that was a good point. I am not afraid I just do not want to go through all this and just have him not really listen but that is Gods department right? I was angry a little to because they always think someone else brain wahed you like with my friend Kevin he opened the door for me to search but through my own studies I found the truth and light. We really never got together to study and they always put us together. He wants to meet with both of us as if we have this little group of our own. I can honestly say it was just me God and the conputer on this one. I still have not even talked with any pastor about this just me and the Bible. Its amazing what God can do in our lives . Well I really appreciate your thoughts they make me think too. Terry | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
Please. pray for me & my husband. Today I have been stricken with that horrible flu that has been going around. I can't even begin to be able to tell you all how suvere my aches and pains are. My skin hurts! My face hurts. I feel like barfing and my intestional track is causing great discomfort. Now about my husband-his cancer is acting up and he is suffering. He went to the Veteram's Hospital several days ago & get a shot of strong medicine. We think his cancer is a result of him being right smack in Agent Orange in that most infamous of wars, The Vietnam Conflict (ha! it was a WAR!). And, my mom is in such enormus greif over my dads death. lease, keep her in your prayers. And, she is extremely distraught about my spiritual everlanting life. I was told that to be loyal to Jesus is to be loyal to the weekly 7th day becaue Jesus said, "I am lord of the Sabbath". Please, pray, pray and then pray some more. Thank-you. | ||
| Thomas1 (Thomas1) |
Susan, I will pray, but you please, Trust Him, Trust Him, and then trust Him some more! Never take your eyes off of the Cross! In His Grace! <>< Thomas | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
God Bless you and keep you, Susan. I find it so very interesting that SDAs like to bring up "The Son of Man is Lord also of the Sabbath" (Matt 12:8, Mark 2:28, Luke 6:5) and "there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God" (Heb 4:9) to bolster their claim. In each case, the context of the chapter shows that the Seventh-day Sabbath is less important than the needs of people. In each case, the story shows a rejection of the Sabbath by pronouncing it inferior and imperfect. The meaning I get (as I suspect do most on this board) is that Jesus is the perfect source of rest; that He has dominion over the rest; that the Sabbath is a shadow pointing to Christ. What is even more astounding (though not surprising) is that they fail to see the purpose of the "sabatismos" reference. It is the only use of this Greek word in the New Testament. It is used as a symbolic connection in the process of declaring the Ten Commandment covenant and the Law that supports it as completed and superceded. Heb 8 is the pivotal chapter that makes clear how the elements of the Sabbath sign are not in the New Covenant. It was a sign between God and Israel so people would know that God is God (Ezek 20:20) This chapter says that in the New Covenant, there is no need to tell or show that God is God. It also assigns an attribute that is completely foreign to the Old Covenant: Heb 8:12 "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more." How, in the world, can they say that the Ten Commandments are still in effect and reconcile this verse with the REQUIREMENT to stone to death all Sabbath-breakers? What about all the other curses and death for breaking the other commandments? Does not sound like much mercy to me. Yet, I believe that God has always been a merciful God. He knew that this was the only way to lead us all to his mercy. God forgives your mother, you, your husband, me, and everyone who believes in Christ. Yes, there is suffering and sickness in this world. Yet there is infinite joy in God's love that will overcome all that is against you. Not always in the easiest way, but He loves you always. I pray that you and your family can focus more and more on what Jesus accomplished 2000 years ago in the blink of an eye. Jerry | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Susan, I will pray that Jesus will help you to surrender your mom, your husband, and your feelings of guilt to him and that His peace will fill your heart and your suffering body. Colleen | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Susan, praying for healing for you and your husband, both spiritually and physically, have faith and keep that line of communication open with Jesus, stay in the word! You are only accountable to Him! | ||
| African (African) |
Hi All, I have sad news (for me). I will no longer have access to internet so will be missing out on so much on the forum! I am requesting please- that you all continue to remember my family and I in prayer. We have had wonderful contacts with a retired pastor who really "knows" the scriptures...through adventist glasses. He wants to 'give us answers' on all the 'mis understandings' we have especially of EGW. He's asked us to prove a few things where we say EGW contradicts the Bible. Our other young trainee Pastor is also reading and studying and finding new truths everyday. Members of our families too...SO PLEASE REMEMBER, REMEMBER, REMEMBER TO PRAY FOR "African" THANKS. GOD BLESS! | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
May the Good Lord be with you and your family and may all His blessings overflow in your favor. | ||
| Speakeasy (Speakeasy) |
what do you guys no about a guy that hs a TV show called "Amazing Facts"? I think his name is Douge Batchler. Any back ground on him and how much influence does he with the SDA church? Also any body heard of a SDA Pastor Leo Shriven. I maybe spelling these guys names wrong. The reason why I ask. I caught the Amazing Facts show the other day and Boy there is alot that Douge Batchler leaves out when he shows you why the Shabbat is still in effect. | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Doug Batchelor? <grits teeth> Donít get me started. He should call it ìAnnoying Fakes.î In the late 1800ís in the western U.S., he would have been called a ìsnake oil salesman.î In the mid 1900ís he would have been called a ìtin manî or a ìused car salesman.î Honestly, he needs our prayers. He is so thoroughly in the grip of evil that he has no idea how wrong and destructive his ministry is. Titus 1: 10-16 [10] For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: [11] Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. [12] One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. [13] This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; [14] Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. [15] Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. [16] They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. |
