| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
Allenette, It is God who controls. He is not manipulated by prayers. He is not manipulated at all. Nor mocked. Allenette, you are not in control. And God is Lord of your life whether you like it or not. Nor is Max in control. "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" If I pray for relief from God, and he sends relief, it is not because my prayers changed him. It is because he predestined me to pray in just such a way so that his name coiuld be glorified through me. Max Still of the Cross | ||
| George |
Max, I can't agree with this version of predestination. Why would He waste his time in such a trivial way, to set us up to fall, so He can save us, so we can say "Lookin good God." I think He has better things to do. There must be a better reason for all this. Allenette, I vote for reality, for sure. But reality can come dresses in many different cloths. Some loud and clashing, some bold and others warm and snugly. Somewhere in there is an outfit that's right for every occasion. :-) George | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Charles H. Spurgeon once said: "I do not come into this pulpit hoping that perhaps somebody will of his own free will return to Christ. My hope lies in another quarter. I hope that my Master will lay hold of some of them and say, 'you are mine, and you shall be mine. I claim you for Myself.' My hope arises from the freeness of grace, and not from the freedom of the will." God Bless, Denise | ||
| Max |
Hi George, I could be mistaken -- and often am -- but I don't think the scriptural concept of predestination is what you seem to think it is. Predestination is not a denial of human free will. It does deny free will to those who are not in Christ. But those who have been set free in Christ are free indeed! | ||
| Max |
Great quote, Denise. I'd never heard that one before. | ||
| Chyna |
dear friends, first of all, what a terror to be criticized for a prayer request. i wish the other naysayers would withold judgement. usually i never bring up christianity unless i am asked a question DIRECTLY about it from the other person. in fact I am reluctant at times because I know what the discussion will entail: my belief that they are not saved from their sins (i.e. they will be punished). it is not an easy thing to say to anyone. yet OUR beliefs demand that we share the gospel. it is good news, it is not something we are trying to make people believe, it is something we know is the best thing in the world. "for I am not ashamed of the gospel" says Paul I believe. and I'm not. I am reluctant to make people feel uncomfortable about it. the reason I thought it would be good to pray for this lapsed mormon is because she reacted so vitrolically which seemed to me a common reaction of cultists. dear george: christians have been martyred for talking about Christ, should I be cringing in fear that someone will feel discomfort hearing the words about the Savior I testify of? dear allenette: i do disagree. there is power in prayer, i don't even know why you came to this topic if you don't believe in it. except to make me feel badly, which I don't. dear cindy: the protagonist of Left Behind had a really good reason to stop letting it hinder his witness. and his reason is my reason too. my point was his being worried that he would come across as obnoxious was my fear as well. and you know what? we are the enemy of nonChristians. we're the ones telling them they are going to hell, and no matter how boldly, or humbly boldly you state the words, they are going to find them distasteful, unless they are at a point where God wants them to receive Him (their hearts are ready to accept God, then the words are deliverance). anyway, the point is moot. because God is the one that witnesses through me. and it is only my fears that prevent me from being used by Him. dear maryann, this is not a case of "how to share beliefs with cultists" this was, we started willingly discussing beliefs and she started reacting vitrolically and it exacerbated the situation, and was characteristic of a cultist having trouble separating their extreme distaste for evangelical Christian beliefs with their own doctrine attaching that to dislike of the person who holds contrary beliefs. it's how cultists stay cultists in effect. dear people in general. i had not expected this sort of response to an earnest prayer request. i have researched in depth about mormonism and know how deeply the false doctrine goes. and you know what, i am really dismayed by some of the reactions. it was a prayer request, it was not a discussion, if you didn't want to pray for it, you didn't have to. THERE IS NO PRAYER COERCION. although many times I pray for my friends things they don't want, but i pray them anyway, like andy, I'm 100% sure he would like to stay in Adventism, but I keep praying for God to kick him out, period. is that obnoxious? i don't care :). to me, it seemed like george and allenette, neither being professed christians had a knee jerk reaction to me wanting to witness more. now, since neither are Christian, I don't expect them to understand what it means because when you become a Christian, the Holy Spirit dwells in you, helping you understand spiritual things that you were previously blinded to. i know there is power in prayer, I've witnessed it in my own life. while this whole conversation (which I think is in an inappropriate thread) was going on. I had the most awesome opportunity to witness to my dear friend Ko, whom I love deeply. and it seemed like God was helping me touch on all the points that would make it connect with Ko in particular. I was crying as I talked of how much I loved him, but how unlike my dear Christian friends whom I know will be in heaven, I don't know that about him. I asked him, "you can't think that *this* is all there is, can you?" so i know for sure that that was a seed planting. it was so exciting. when it ended i told Ko of how overjoyed I'd be if he accepted Christ. but then i stopped, maybe the Holy spirit made me stop, but i sensed it wasn't the right time to ask if he wanted to make a commitment. sometimes i am so unsure. but then i realize that i can't mess it up! it is God that does the convincing, even on a bungled up witnessing :). so please pray for my friend's salvation. i am praying that God will pursue him with His love. I am also praying that God will pursue allenette and george relentlessly also ;). dear God, I commit this prayer thread to you. Let our words be edifying, and encouraging one another, not inciting strife among us. Let us, in our behavior to one another bear witness of your love. To show we love You, Lord, by loving our neighbors: those around us. and help us to pray, Lord, and not become discouraged. amen, Chyna | ||
| Chyna |
dear valerie, thank you for first trying to see the best out of my prayer request instead of the worst. i am afraid I am used to total acceptance by Christians when sharing my requests, which is how it usually goes, but then, this is also a haven for others that do not know God. thank you for loving me by your replies. i honestly did not know that wanting to pray for people's salvation and increasing my witness would be a controversy. love, Chyna | ||
| Max |
Bless you, Chyna, ^^We are the enemy of nonChristians. We're the ones telling them they are going to hell.^^ Aren't we rather the ones showing them they're already in hell? And inviting them to step over the line into heaven? Max of the Cross | ||
| Cindy |
Max, Good point that you stated: "Aren't we rather the ones showing them they're already in hell? And inviting them to step over the line into heaven?" And that way seems to be stated more positively; the reality is hell now... and the choice for heaven and eternal life, beginning now, is wonderfully Good news! Grace always, Cindy | ||
| George |
For you to say I had a knee jerk reaction to your to your statement is beyond belief, and to have anyone suggest I must profess to be a Christian before I can be taken seriously or even post on this forum, I find offensive to the extreme. It is a very pompous, fanatical, and yes, OBNOXIOUS attitude I will not tolerate. The only people I get this from are PROFESSED Christians. There are thoughts that come to mind when I think about the fact that it took about two weeks for you to understand a simple question, if you ever did, but I will leave them to your very fertile imagination. I asked a simple question and made a simple statement about something I found very shocking. For you to spend this much time on something so trivial is beyond my understanding. And another thing, if you guys look on any place on this forum as Holy you have missed point, by a long, looong way. Think about this. If you misunderstand me 98% of the time, it is a sure bet you misunderstood what I said then. I think I will stick to the sinners at work, it only takes them a few minites to figure out what I have to say and I wont be committing the sin of speaking on a holy forum with out professing belief. Hmmmmmm...? All those times I said I believe I must have been misunderstood, so I guess they don't count. I don't need this sanctimonious crap anymore. George | ||
| Allenette |
Its New YEar's EVe of the true first year of the new millenium and I'm tired. Dont feel like posting much provocative but I have to say that Max still wants to make me out as a puppet on strings controlled by the GREAT ONE. OK. :-) So much for free will. George, the votes not in yet, (or recounted gggg) or even recorded! ;-) I think I'll finish watching "The Godfather 3" and ruminate on the Trilateral Commission and the CFR for awhile and call it a day. HAPPY NEW YEAR SAINTS !!!! ;-) | ||
| George |
Allenette, Somehow I don't think they will vote as I don't think they want to take a chance on reality. All they want to hear is the same old thing told the same old way by the same old people. I am reminded me of 3-ABN there I hear the same old things told with the same old words in the same tired old pious way I heard over 40 years ago. It is so sad. I guess it is true when they say if you live with a behavior pattern for 12 years it then becomes a personality trate and can not be changed. I am sure glad I got out of it after only 9 years, I would hate to have had it become part of my personality. I didn't get into the adictivness of religion because that would have made it 100% not understood, a 2% rate is not much but it is better than nothing. George | ||
| Cindy |
Hi George... I just read your post above; I see you were addressing someone else, (and also responding to comments on the 'disgreements and such') thread, but I wanted to respond since this is something I have been thinking about all day and trying to formulate a post that would not offend too many! I will post below what I've been thinking...It is just too complicated to go back and forth to different threads; this could just as well be a prayer request... This medium is a hard one to communicate clearly in, at least lately it seems! Blessings and love to you, George. And a Happy New Year to you, too! Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Cindy |
And Allenette, Happy New Year to you also! I'm having a quiet night here in front of the computer and T.V. We were invited out, but just could't budge willingly from this apartment; very relaxing right here for the New Year! We may not even make it (awake, that is!) till midnight... I think the Trilateral Commision is like the Illuminati conspiracy, right? What is the CFR? Richard didn't know either... Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Cindy |
Back again briefly...Just wanted to bring this up as a prayer request for understanding and peace this New Year... As Christians taking in comments and questions of those who believe differently, how do we react? Sometimes it seems we get overly defensive and easily offended...Are we getting too up-tight over OUR "holiness" and "purity" and "dedication"? I do think it's admirable to hold each other, as believers (myself included), accountable to live in compassion towards others...but still not be afraid of "reality checks" and honest questions. I see many of these comments and questions as stimulating; as far as Allenette's comments on whats-the-use of prayer?; they made me think more on why I pray. Specific answers have not come the way I planned; and yet, I still pray. :-)) This glorious Good News of the Gospel of Grace is something we can have confidence in! It really is about WHAT CHRIST HAS DONE; a perfect accomplished and finished gift that we can rejoice in fully this New Year, 2001. My prayer request this last night of 2000... "Find REST, O my soul, IN GOD ALONE; My HOPE comes from HIM. HE ALONE is MY ROCK and MY SALVATION; HE is MY FORTRESS, I will not be shaken. MY SALVATION and MY HONOR DEPEND ON GOD, HE is MY MIGHTY ROCK, MY REFUGE. TRUST IN HIM AT ALL TIMES, O people; pour out your hearts to HIM, for GOD IS OUR REFUGE." Psalms 62:5-8 Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Max |
HAPPY NEW: MILLENNIUM! CENTURY! YEAR! MONTH! DAY! And it will be another thousand years before I can say this again! God's love-in-Christ to all! Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
Bless you, Allenette, ^^I have to say that Max still wants to make me out as a puppet on strings controlled by the GREAT ONE. OK. :-) So much for free will.^^ No offence intended, it's just the way I read Scripture. And, yes, I do believe that free will outside of Christ consciousness is an illusion. But in Christ you are "free indeed." As you like to say, meant friendly! Max of the Cross | ||
| Jtree |
Happy New Years to all my fellow Christians here, on this web site. I didn't disapear, I was quite busy these past few months, no time to be online, (only to check email, and to view what was being said, without time to reply or post). The fall season for me is a very busy time of the year. I work hard, at my job, sometimes overly. Pray for one another. Love one another... Joshua...Happy New years everyone. | ||
| Allenette |
Cindy: Yep, its all a part of the NEW WORLD ORDER conspiracy that I hear on the Christian internet radio networks I frequent such as TruthRadio.com and the American Freedom Network.com to hear rousing talk radio by conservatives host like Robby Noel, a white Rhodesian who has fled 2 countries (Rhodesia/now Zimbabwe and South Africa) after fighting communism there ;-) Bet people on here thought I was a flaming pinko liberal GGGGG Nope, I'm a member of Czarina Hillary's "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" and proud of it ;-) The CFR is the semi-secret society Council on Foreign Relations that Dubya's daddy is a member of. Do I "believe" in the Illuminati and the NWO, etc. Nah. (but maybe.....ggg). Its just another one of my interests that's all. In the Godfather 3 movie, secret societies are hinted at and since that movie trilogy aint that far off from reality (there's that word again), I give it a bit of credence, that's all. George: Try to remember that people on here are NOT fans of SDA ;-) but still like religion. IMHO, religion in general has gotten warmer and fuzzier these days. Its more PC to pat people on the back than shake your finger at their behavior. Honey vs vinegar, friend :-) | ||
| Max |
Hi Allenette, Come on and admit it: You like religion too, don't you? |
