| Author | Message | ||
| Allenette |
Max: I'm curious about a LOT of things. "Liking religion" hasnt entered the picture, but, considering my past, yeah, it is a strong curiosity. I'm taking a liberty of pasting a post from another forum on here. Former's will hopefully "get it"...Pauli is a Finnish SDA PK former BTW Here goes: Paradigms, old and new Much of what I read will get chosen by serendipity. The method has its good and weak sides. If I had read systematically, my view of world probably would be quite different. OTOH relying on making "finds" by serendipity has brought much valuable, cherished content to my life. But back to the title. Of course the word "paradigm" was not new to me. Many times I had collided to it in medical literature. Even in this Forum it seems to be one of the favorite words used by many participants. But never had I read any book ON paradigms until some days ago, after killing time in shop of used books (waiting for my wife and daughter to appear from somewhere after having made THEIR finds). I got a glimpse of a book FUTURE EDGE - Discovering the New Paradigms of Success, by Joel Arthur Barker. As its 1st edition may stem from 1992, most of you may have read it. However it seems that no one has ever mentioned it in this Forum. I leafed it and noticed a story of test made on memory capacity of chessplayers (masters, enthusiasts, beginners). The test persons were shown for 5 seconds a chessboard with 20 chessmen on it. If those chessmen were placed as found some game in going, the chessmasters could remember their placement more succesfully than the other chess players. But it the pieces were placed at random by a computer (and that meant that some configurations were not possible as regards the rules of chess), the chessmasters fared worse than the beginners in remembering, where the pieces were situated. That test aroused my curiosity. I bought the book just in time before my womenfolk arrived and when at home, began reading. After having read the book I understand now much better why the members of SDA do not "see" some facts in front of them. It is caused by the properties of any paradigm, in this time the "SDA paradigm". The author beautifully demonstrates, how our preconceived ideas affect the way see the reality. How it so happened that just yeasterday I saw in TV a program explaining and showing in practice, how the great magicians perform their best tricks (levitation, sawing off a woman in two pieces etc). They rely on the fact that we see what we expect seeing. The more a paradigm explains (and it is irrelevant, whether the explanation is correct or not) the more the paradigm rules even our senses. The author told of a woman, who had gone though a brain operation. When eating her 1st meal after operation, the woman noticed that the taste of the food was not so strong she had anticipated. When she told that to her doctor, he explained her that actually she has lost totally her faculties of tasting and smelling. Immediately after having heard that explanation, the woman was unable to taste or smell anything. During her first post-op meal her brains had furnished the anticipated taste and smell sensations without the help of the proper sensory pathways! Do you know any other religion, whose paradigms cover so many areas of human life as Adventism? That IMHO makes leaving those paradigms more difficult than any other, competing paradigms. This paradigm thing is at the moment a better explanation than that offered by me in May 2000 ("Of kittens, lines and grooves in vinyl"). Arthur Barker in page 214 suggests that "lying always creates more problems than it solves". I am not convinced if that is applicable to so strong paradigms as Adventism. At least the leaders of the church seem not to believe that maxim. The last time that was demonstrated here in Finland was as regards the dilemma of what to do with the revealings offered by TV (the "MOT" -program). What is your opininion: Would Adventism be better off, if the minutes of 1919 Bible Conference had been published in 1919? Or would there be any Adventism left? IMO the SDA paradigm is so strong - irrespective of its merits, if any - that its leaders can get away with it even after having told any lies. So it pays (pun intended) to lie, rather than tell an irksome truth! Pauli BTW, Jtree you got some brownie points with me by signing your name. My only begotten son's name is also Josh. ta ta | ||
| Max |
Thanks for answering, Allenette. I'm honored and pleased that you have chosen FAF as one of your curio stops. Also enjoyed reading Finnish friend and fellow PK Pauli's post on paradigms. Thanks for exporting it to us. Grace to you, | ||
| Valm |
I found the beautiful quote by Ole Hallesby in a recent issue of Catholic Digest. It speaks of the power of prayer. "The work of praying is prerequisite to all other work in the kingdom of God, for the simple reason that it is by prayer that we couple the powers of heaven to our helplessness, the powers which can turn water into wine, and remove mountains in our own life and in the lives of others, the powers which can awaken those who sleep in sin and raise up the dead, the powers which can capture strongholds and make the impossible possible." Please place me in your prayers as I go about my day to day work. I wish to be able to make the right kind of difference in people's lives particularly my children. I also wish for day to day healing from my past and a sense of joy in being in the present. Valerie | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Dear Valerie, Know that you are in my prayers each and everyday. May God Bless you and your family. your sister in Christ Jesus, Denise | ||
| Valm |
Dear Patti, I have a Birthday prayer from my prayer book for you: Heavenly Father, Watch over thy child Patti as her days increase; bless and guide her wherever she may be. Strengthen her when she stands; comfort her when discouraged or sorrowful; raise her up if she fall; and in her heart may thy peace which passeth understanding abide all the days of her life; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen Happy Birthday! Valerie | ||
| Allenette |
Here's more Pauli from Finland; former SDA, PK, doctor of medicine. On the Origins paradigm: Of Decalogue there are two versions. Very seldom have SDA's used or commented that in Deuteronomy. As we remember, the reasons given for sacredness of Sabbath are different in those two versions. I keep wondering, what would have been the SDA theology, if Adventists had preferred the Deuteronomic version. But they had no choice, as EGW supported the first (i.e. Exodus) version. When using the version in Exodus one must connect Sabbath with the Mosaic creation story and therefore clinging to creationism in unavoidable. Here in Finland - and if I have understood it correctly, even there in USA - the manner of keeping Sabbath has become more lax, in fact for many SDA's so lax that they keep Sabbath only in principle but not in practice; that does not prevent them from boasting of their sabbath-keeping (although sabbath-knowing would be a more proper word). So I am wondering, what effect to the laxity referred above has had the advance of knowledge as regards the theories/findings of science in general and especially of origin of Universe, Earth and Life. But that was in future, that dilemma, in fifties when I getting my secular schooling and religious upbringing. It seems to me that very many of you have attended SDA institutions until going to university. That was not possible in most other countries as for example my generation of Finnish SDA's had to go a secular schools at least for 6 years, before one could get admitted to the denominational school Toivonlinna. And as I've told earlier, that was not an option for me (why not, of that I have no certain knowledge but I assume that at least one reason was an economical one). So a collision course with diametrically opposite ideas was unavoidable. In order to get good grades I had to learn the subtleties of non-SDA views. Luckily the teachers did not demand believing in them. So the situation was kind of a mirror image of current Sabbath-keeping in SDA circles: The most important thing was knowing and defending, not believing... But how could I relate those two incomptible views? What kind of thinking took place in the head of so young and so innocent, so credulous Pauli? To be honest, this reconstruction may be inexact, as in this age the memory is not so good anymore and at that time I kept no diary. Supposedly my point of departure in mulling over the problem was that if only SDA's were clever enough and honest enough to grasp the 3 angels message, that gave us an intellectual cutting edge over the rest of humanity. As I had imbibed the message in mother's milk, pondering over the possibility that my parents could be wrong was no option. As the one of the mathematics teachers in "my" high school was an Adventist and as we in Finland had the a 6-day school week, every teacher had to know that I was an Adventist, too, and so they knew that I most probably did not believe what I wrote in biology or history or religion exams papers. But luckily no believing was demanded. Not we must return to the paradigm thing. Described in very simplistic way: paradigm is the way everyone uses in explaining things for himself.. Everyone of us has innumerous paradigms. You in USA have paradigm on Republican/Democrat issue, as we have seen in the thread "2000 general elections". You have paradigms relating a good car, environmental issues, sacredness, if any, of marriage. You have numerous religious or agnostic paradigms etc etc. All the existent (and that applies to the previous ones, too) paradigms have in common the nuisance that the longer a paradigm has been in use, the more there are things it cannot explain. As long as those unexplained thing do not bother a person too much, one clings to the current paradigm. You remember the idea of friction in physics. Generally the rest friction is greater than friction in movement. So it takes a greater force to stop resting state of an object than keep the object in movement. The same phenomen is discernible as regards paradigms and paradigm shifts. In the origins paradigm the denomination gave a helping hand. It published an abundance of material purporting to show how ridiculous the evolutionary ideas were. I remember my first months in university. The pal I told of last spring (the same fellow who taught me the subtleties of Sabbath-keeping I had been thus far not aware of) had studied one year biology in the same university. Obviously he had had some difficulties as regards secular/SDA views and so he had devoured books and pamphlet written by Price and Marsh. It kind of seemed that he valued them like the Sacred Writ. They had helped him to keep his paradigm at the time and they helped me, too. "They are men, who know and have studied", he asserted. In the first semester we had among other subjects comparative zoology. We made autopsies to fish, frog, cat etc. I remember heated discussions with one female teacher, a M.A. and assistant in zoology. Obviously most of what I had read of writings by Price and Marsh were totally new for her as she seemed unable to defend the official scientific position on creation/evolution debate. Finally she desperately resorted to expressing that "as so many learned and wise men have supported Darwin, evolution must be a fact". (When I much later read what R.Numbers wrote on those two fellows in his book "the Evolution of Creationism ..." or something to the effect, I felt myself betrayed as regards those two authorities of my youth) Pauli Right on Right on Right on. Oh well.... GGGG | ||
| Max |
Thanks for sharing, Allenette, GGGGG, MC | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Allenette;-)) | ||
| Bmorgan |
Greetings from Grenada, West Indies. I am on a semi vacation here. I came down to help with some legal matters for my husband's family. The lawyer assured me that everything would be resolved before I left, however, I am due to leave on Tuesday and it seems that it will not be over yet. Please pray that I will sense God's intervention and have peace about the outcome. On another matter, I visited my old sda church just to see old family/friends. Well, it was not pleasant. The cruelty inflicted on me was unbelievable. I was wearing pearl necklace and ear stoppers. One woman accosted me and said, "I can't believe you came here like that, how could you?" Two people refused to shake my hand and a third warned me to return to the person she knew "in Jesus Name." It is "strange" but I am finding sweet bonding with "those Sunday people" whose lives are so demonstative of God's love. Pray that I can be compassionate to my sda people. Thanks. BMorgan PS> I am enjoying the warm sunshine, clear blue skies and sea. Our God is Awesome. | ||
| Max |
Our God is awesome indeed, BMorgan. Thanks for the antioxident-filled chocolate present. Do you realize that there were about eleven different languages on the wrapper? -MC | ||
| Valm |
Dear BMorgan, I do not know you yet but I am touched and can relate to your concerns. Compassion, understanding and forgiveness are in my mind the three things essential in continuing relationships with sdas once you leave the church. I will pray for you as you will please pray for me to have the above qualities. I will also pray that God will heal the hurt you feel about the rebuke you received. Valerie | ||
| Denisegilmore |
BMorgan, I will pray too for your situation. God Bless you, Denise | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Hello everyone, Although I've posted like a maniac, I am sicker than a dog. My posting is a way to keep my mind off of how sick I am. I have no television stations and such to keep my mind busy. My fever yesterday was 104. That is too high for my liking. I have cold, flu and pneumonia like symtoms. Keep me in your prayers today please. God Bless all, Denise | ||
| Denisegilmore |
P.S. I had a seizure last night and today also. God Bless all, Denise | ||
| Valm |
Denise, I just sent the prayer and you will be on my prayer line all day. Get your rest and drink lots of fluids. I am a firm believer in chicken broth. And please lay off the smokes. If you can stand the chill open the windows and air your apt out. Take some Advil or Tylenol for that fever, you will rest better. And if you get worse get someone to take you for care. Here I go that nurse/mother hen in me can't help herself. Once again you will be in my prayers. Valerie | ||
| Chyna |
yes! you are in my prayers too, Denise. Chyna | ||
| Valm |
Please pray for my family. Today my brother is breaking news to my parents that he left his wife. This is a truly heart breaking situation due to the four lovely kids they have had together. I found out last night and none of it is making sense to me today. | ||
| Cindy |
Valerie, Morning, I am sorry for your brother and family. No matter what the circumstances are, it is very sad... So many are affected when a marriage breaks up. I will pray for all of your family today. Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Max |
I've said prayers for you and them. Satan meant this for evil, but God is going to make something out of it for good in the long run. | ||
| Valm |
Please continue in your prayers. This has been a heart wrenching situation. As much as I love my brother, he is breaking a very good woman's heart as well as devastating his children. He truly needs psychological help and does not recognize it. He did not tell my parent's yesterday. And they would be supportive of his wife if he did. She needs all the support she can get now. And my brother needs to find psychological help. |
