| Author | Message | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Hello saints, I pose this question for God Almighty's sake and for my own. For to dishonor Him would destroy my testimony of Him. Welcomed are all to share their thoughts, experiences, insights and perhaps even more questions. This input is necessary, especially if one is being slandered, accused, threatened, ostracized or the like, while doing or saying what comes from the leading of His Mighty Holy Spirit. Please give me thoughts or opinions as it were, as to what you deem "overzealous." My appreciation stems through these wires but mostly from within my heart. Glory to God in the Highest always and forever, amen. DtB | ||
| Sabra |
Denise, I don't think if we have the Spirit of God in us we would come across as overzealous, however, if we had some other spirit (of EGW) we could come across as FANATICAL! If we keep in mind the love towards our neighbor we probably won't become a hinderance in our witness. There is a scripture about being so heavenly bound that we are no earthly good isn't there? Or is that just something I've heard? | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Hello Sabra, I just spotted this post of yours and thank you for your input. As to this statement (in part): "There is a scripture about being so heavenly bound that we are no earthly good isn't there?" Hmmm, I've never encountered the Scripture, if there is one. Perhaps someone else could enlighten us both! God Bless you Sabra! DtB | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Don't think it is a scripture Sabra, but it sure is a good thought. Of course the meaning is that those who are so sanctimonious that they can't be bothered to, say, offer a drink of water to the thirsty (or bind up the wounds of the guy in the ditch because they would be late for the temple service) aren't a lick of good to the kingdom of God. Denise, "overzealous" to me would be if someone is trying to BE the Holy Spirit. They aren't acting with a bit of love, aren't taking the time to listen to the promptings of the Holy Spirit, but instead are just plunging ahead and bashing people over the head with "the truth" of the gospel. Hmmm, okay, an example would be my grandmother who was well known for going to visit someone was laying in a hospital bed, dying, in intense pain, and saying, "you're gonna fry in hell, you know!" The truth may have been in what she was saying. The problem was her delivery. And, unfortunately, knowing her character, it was likely being said with the full intention of the pleasure of bashing them over the head. Another example would be those wonderful folk who go out to eat on Sunday after church and leave only a tract as a "tip" for the poor waitress. Giving a tract to witness to someone may have it's place. But that ain't the place or the way to do it. Leave her a triple tip and the tract after having treated her with dignity and respect and patience, maybe!. Another example would be if someone had walked in our church, seen the guy with the tatoo of the naked woman on his arm and walked up to him and slammed him for spreading pornography. Never bothered to first talk to the guy or connect with him in anyway. If they had they might learn that he was a brand new baby Christian coping with the death of a child. Yeah, the tattoo needs to go it's true....but the broken heart needs mending before he can even think of what's on his skin. Am I helping at all girlfriend? | ||
| Gene (Gene) |
Overzealous, to me, would be if my message was annoying to the listener. Annoyance doesn't endear one to our viewpoints - it creates resistance. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Another aspect of overzealous, for me, is when someone won't quite talking about something even when it's clear I no longer want to listen or respond; in other words, I'm no longer in a teachable moment. Major annoyance! Colleen | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
Here are some scriptures I found about being balanced and being zealous. Galatians 4 17Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good. What they want is to alienate you from us, so that you may be zealous for them. 18It is fine to be zealous, provided the purpose is good, and to be so always and not just when I am with you. 19My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you, Psalm 62:9 Lowborn men are but a breath, the highborn are but a lie; if weighed on a balance, they are nothing; together they are only a breath. Proverbs 16:11 Honest scales and balances are from the LORD ; all the weights in the bag are of his making. | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Lydell, You really made sense in your post and we've all seen these type of Christians. Thank you and yes,,you are helping! Gene, Are you talking about an unsolicited listener? To me, this would make a big difference. Colleen, How is it that you are sure that the message is "clear" that you are no longer interested or in a teachable mood? I'm curious how you or anyone else deals or handles this sort of situation. Brad 2, Great Scriptures! Thank you for they shed alot of light onto this matter. I especially agree with this part of a line that Paul is saying "18It is fine to be zealous, provided the purpose is good, and to be so always....." Do others see where this part of Paul's statement could be taken to extremes? And infact, possibly turn someone away from wanting to know about our Great Salvation in Christ Jesus? If you have witnessed someone doing this (Paul's statement) in EXTREMES, how or what was done to turn it into a stumbling stone of sorts. Or a wall that ran a person the other direction. All these different answers really help the mature and immature in Christ Jesus. Anyone else? Any input is good for us all, I think anyway. Anyone else think this is a good discussion to try to get a balance of how we should walk our talk or walk our walk? Or even talk about walking.  Blessings to all who have given some insights, this is all great. Denise | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
I guess when I think of zeal, I think of the Jews. Paul said they were zealous for God, but their zeal was not based on knowledge. They did not recognize that their zeal came from God, so instead they sought to establish their own righteousness (by the things they did, believed, etc.). Paul knew a little something about this considering he boasted about his "pre-conversion zeal." He said he was second to no one in that department, but he now considers all of that "dung" compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing God. I believe I know a little about this topic myself. I have been known to be zealous myself--zealous to have people see things the way that I do. I think we always have to examine our motives for our interactions with others. If it is for any other reason than to share the goodness and provisions of God (in the proper season for the listener), then we may be experiencing a problem with overzealousness. Just my opinion. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Hm, good point Doug. I guess that's one of the check points Denise. Am I sharing out of an honest concern for the person, or am I out to make them cry out "you're right and I'm wrong"? I guess there are many ways a person can make it clear they have no interest in what you are sharing, like changing the subject, avoiding you, or arguing with you, or just plain looking bored. There's times when people argue with you, yet you get the impression that they are a thinking person who is really genuinely seeking answers. But other times it becomes clear after a time that they are arguing simply because, for them, arguing is a way of having fun. They aren't a lick interested in the subject, they are just into arguing. It comes down, I think, to listening to the Holy Spirit's prompting of whether you should continue a conversation, how far you should take it, or when to just let it go. Undoubtedly that is hard to do when you don't feel like you've gotten your point across or not had a positive response yet. But there is always the possibility that the Lord didn't intend for you to reap the harvest with that individual. Instead you were just someone who planted one more seed of thought to lead them in the right direction. I'm reminded of a friend in Germany who was witnessing to one of her neighbors. She had talked with her repeatedly, little by little for many many months. She said she just never felt like she was getting through to her. The lady always just blew her off. Then one day the neighbor showed up at her door and when the door was opened she just blurted out a question. My friend was surprised. But even more surprised that an answer blurted from her mouth. She says she instantly cringed on hearing what came out of her mouth thinking that was screwy sounding. The lady responded, "that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard!" Then turned and stomped away angrily. But then she was back within the hour and told my friend she'd been thinking about it and realized that was exactly what she had needed to hear. That was the breakthrough, and she prayed to receive Christ then. We just get caught up in this idea that witnessing is hitting someone with the entire gospel. It's just that we want so much for someone not to waste anymore time, but to move right into the kingdom. But we are far more often just called to the roll of being a seed scatterer, not a harvester. We can't force the person to move on our timetable. | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Doug, Part of what you said really is a good point for me to always remember. It was this: "I think we always have to examine our motives for our interactions with others." This is very important! Thank you. I say it with emphasis because sometimes after I've had a heated debate with someone over some theological topic, I find myself asking "why did I do that?" In other words, questioning my own motives but AFTER the fact unfortunately. You also stated this in part: "They did not recognize that their zeal came from God, so instead they sought to establish their own righteousness (by the things they did, believed, etc.)." I still do sometimes and have in past times too, done exactly what those Jews did. This "overzealousness" can get the better of a person if one isn't listening to the Holy Spirit, as Lydell has so many times pointed out. Good point Lydell. Lydell, You also said something that just stood out. It was this: "We can't force the person to move on our timetable." Another good to remember thing for me. Sometimes I want so badly for someone to understand something that I'm guilty of over-doing it or getting frustrated with them. I'm still learning, albeit the hard way. Thank you both. Not for what I simply quoted from your posts, but for your entire thoughts on this subject. This subject is a good one and will help me and perhaps others know some valuable tips and also words of encouragement. Blessings to you both in Christ's Jesus Name. amen. Denise | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Oh Lydell, You said this also: "I guess there are many ways a person can make it clear they have no interest in what you are sharing, like changing the subject, avoiding you, or arguing with you, or just plain looking bored." What about simply just saying it to the one speaking? And saying it in a way that is honest but respectful at the same time. That avoids all the game playing and is the honest route if you ask me. | ||
| Loneviking (Loneviking) |
I like the way Chuck Swindoll puts it when talking about being overzealous---he says 'they just back the theological dump truck up and unload on 'em!' We have to be careful to know a bit about where a person is coming from and listen to the Spirits' leading when listening to the persons' question(s). It's something that apparently you get better at with time and practice. I guess it comes down to where your focus is---arguing and wrassling the other into a corner and making 'em holler 'uncle'. Or is it to point them to Christ or to an answer that meets their needs? Bill | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Lydell, Your example of the person in Germany reminded me of a minister who used to preach at a church I attended. The person was very "deep," and his sermons were though provoking--long but thought provoking. I think his problem stemmed from the fact that he usually tried to cover too much territory in one sermon. By the end, he had pretty much lost everyone (and this was well known throughout the congregation--even to the point that people would avoid coming to church on weeks when he was speaking). One of his favorite expressions (at about 1:15 in the afteroon) was, "I know you guys are tired, but I need to finish this. It's important." I would usually think to myself, "brother you finished about 30 minutes ago." He never got the point. In his case, I think his motives were good, but he did not consider his audiences readiness to receive it. Remember, even Paul said he had much he wanted to say, but that the Corinthians (?) were not ready to receive it. I think the writer of Hebrews did the same thing. Even Jesus constantly adjusted his message to the level of the audience. In His Grace Doug | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
A note to long winded preachers-you are the reason churches have clocks on the back wall! | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Bill, You said something that I believe is a very critical issue and that is (in part): "We have to be careful to know a bit about where a person is coming from and listen to the Spirits' leading......." This is an absolute must if you ask me. Many people have tried to tell me, rebuke me, or teach me things not knowing a thing about me and where I'm coming from. This caused for some walls in some instances. Other instances it lost a potential friendship. And yet again, in other instances, they went right over my head in their teaching and I left not knowing what in the world they were trying to teach me. When someone new, that I don't know, comes to me with a question, I first try to get to know them a bit. And because it is only a 'bit,' I won't tell them everything regarding some matters as that would be just too much for them at "that" point in time. However, I do let them know that there is more to it than that and if they are interested we could study it out together. Then I usually will invite them over for coffee and a movie (I usually play Matthew and this in itself is a great instrument for conversation and teaching God's Word, with an open Bible, of course) or perhaps we could go to lunch a few times. And during those lunches or what have you, we chat and I get to know them better and where they are coming from and they get to know me and where I'm coming from too. This always is a good way in my experience, to be able to have a "listening" ear, when I'm trying to teach them or vice versa, they have a more "attentive" ear as they teach me or ask me something or even correct me. THEN, once I've gotten to know them and were they are coming from, I ask them if they were still interested in such and such a topic. Because I've experienced, most all my life, people "thinking they know me" when the FACT is, they know NOTHING about me. This is a difficult situation especially if they have never shown an interest in knowing me and I might have a question but hestitate to ask as that might reveal something about me that I know they DO NOT know about me. Did any of that make sense?? I sure hope it was somewhat understandable. You also said this: "I guess it comes down to where your focus is---arguing and wrassling the other into a corner and making 'em holler 'uncle'. Or is it to point them to Christ or to an answer that meets their needs?" Right on with that! We need to always, always find our focus "in Christ Jesus." Peace and Blessings to you Bill and thanks alot! Denise |
