Eternity Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Edit Profile

Former Adventist Fellowship Forum » ARCHIVED DISCUSSIONS 1 » Eternity « Previous Next »

  Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post
Archive through November 24, 1999Lynn W11-24-99  1:53 pm
  ClosedClosed: New threads not accepted on this page        

Author Message
JudeTheObscure59
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 1999 - 8:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I want to thank you, Colleen and Richard, for inviting me to hear Pastor Inrig's study. I had a very enjoyable time interacting with him on the more informal basis that the Friday night fellowship provides.

Also, it was very kind of you to prepare the beautiful gift basket for him and Elizabeth.

You asked, "I'm wondering how others' understandings of one's state in death and the subject of hell has changed since leaving Adventismóor has it changed?"

My answer is, I don't know yet. I'd still like to hear what Pastor Inrig has to say about Oscar Cullman's work on this topic. Sorry, can't think of the name of Cullman's book right now.

But Gary Inrig certainly did bring out a great many texts and he was also very responsive to the texts I brought up, such as Jesus decending into hell and bringing back capitives which he set free. But even if I don't understand it fully, the deeper spiritual meaning cannot be missed:

The death and resurrection of Jesus raises us all from spiritual death, rescues us all from spiritual hell, and frees us all from spiritual prison.

Which reminds me of the beautiful song I learned at Trinity a couple of Sundays ago: "I thank you, O My Father, for sending us your Son!" The thrill I got from singing that I will never forget.

Yours in Christ,

Jude the Obscure
Lydell
Posted on Friday, November 26, 1999 - 6:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ernie, could you tell us a bit more about what you mean when you refer to the Hebrew structure of Gen. 2:7? I'm sure we would all appreciate hearing more on this.
Ernie
Posted on Friday, November 26, 1999 - 8:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lydell:

When Genesis 2:7 says that "God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul," the structure in Hebrew is as follows: God (Elohim) breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (naphash into his nostrils the nephesh of khah'ee) and the man became a living soul (khah'ee nephesh). As you may see, what the Hebrew supports is that God put his living soul into Adam, and Adam became a being possessing a living soul in the likeness of his Creator. Do not forget that we are created in God's image, and part of that image is His living soul implanted in us in the beginning. Though some Adventists will fight against it arguing that nephesh only means air, we are talking of God's breathing, its power to renew and make things alive. What we have here is that humans have something animals do not have, a living sould implanted in us by God Himself when created us. Animals were created by an action of God's power, we were created from the dust of the ground and made alive by God's Spirit that implanted a soul in us.

God bless you,

Ernie
Timo K.
Posted on Friday, November 26, 1999 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ernie, what happened to the "eternal" soul after the fall? In my opinion only in Christ do we have an eternal soul.

timo
Colleentinker
Posted on Saturday, November 27, 1999 - 9:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Timo, your question is one I've struggled with. I'm coming to believe, however, that when Jesus said in Matthew 25 that the wicked would go to eternal punishment and the righteous would go to eternal life, he meant it. The word for eternal in both cases is the same word.

Further, "punishment" is not annihilation. One person has suggested that the way he understands it is this: eternal punishment is not based on our "sins". It's based on Sin, the brokenness, the dead soul with which we're born. When we accept Jesus, our souls become alive. The Holy Spirit actually indwells us, and we are connected to God for eternity. "You have passed from death to life," Jesus said.

When Adam and Eve sinned, they did die; their souls died when they were separated from God. Only faith in God could give them eternity again.

We have a hard time separating physical death and spiritual death, because we always think of the two as intertwined. But the serpent's lie to Eve was that she wouldn't die. And physically, she didn't. But the spiritual separation from God was death. That death doesn't mean that the soul no longer existed. It simply means that it was separated from God, and that separation is death. Although Adam and Eve were still physically alive, they were spiritually dead, and they knew shame and guilt. They did "become as gods" and knew the difference between good and evil.

Now, humans are born with a dead soul, our inheritance from Adam and Eve. But through faith in our Redeemer, those souls are brought to life and connected for eternity to God.

I'm beginning to see that a "dead" soul may actually suffer for eternity, not in a physical dimension where we can gaze on a fire pit and see burning humans. But it makes sense that a soul would suffer in direct proportion to what it has rejectedóeternity with our Creator. We have a sense of the suffering already, because we all know how much we struggled with anxiety, depression, anger, worry, and control before we received God's grace by faith. That suffering was from our "dead" souls pushing us to self-destruct while Jesus longed to restore us to life.

This is all still a very new way of looking at the subject for me. I'm sure I'll undergo changes in my understanding as time goes on. But I find myself overwhelmed with the huge implications of having an eternal soul, the essence of our being made in the image of God. It makes salvation seem much bigger and more significant than ever. I'm immensely joyful at the thought that I'll never be separated from the love of God. I also see rejecting Jesus to be even more serious than I ever used to see it. I used to think, "Sure, enduring the punishment of the fire that cleanses the earth will be agonizing and unimaginable, but to be non-existent for eternity isn't that big a deal." Now I see that death in a biblical sense isn't just about the body. Death for the soul is a separate phenomenon from death to the body. Death for the soul may indeed be eternal punishment.

Interestingly, the person who talked the most about hell and eternal punishment was Jesus himself. Christians get most of their teaching about hell from the gospels.
Susan
Posted on Saturday, November 27, 1999 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with you Colleen, having an eternal "soul" life with God is so amazing! I am so joyful about this at times I feel like bursting. (Something I NEVER experienced as an adventist)
"At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth , and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" Philp.2:10-11 There will come a day when all of creation (even those souls in hell) will proclaim Christ is Lord. I think you're right on, about eternal punishment will come from forever being cut-off from the presence of God.
One big thing I gained from my study of Revelation last year in Community Bible Study, was a sense of urgency. The end is coming one day. As Christians we know that there is only ONE way to escape hell. That's what sets Christianity apart from all other religions. We can boldly state that we are only saved by the blood of Jesus. There is no other way to the Father. This urgency I feel is to see those I love in eternity one day. Most of them are lost. The job for me is to give a reason for the hope I have in me.
Timo K.
Posted on Saturday, November 27, 1999 - 11:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Colleen and Susan for your opinions about eternal punishment. Now I have another open question, which is not related to this. In the Finnish advlist, someone brought that Mrs White visited some planets in our solar system (I guess) and saw patriarch Enoch. One planet with several moons were described. Also the inhabitats of one planet were taller than us etc. The one who brought up this (Mrs. White's wrong astronomy), does't remember the source where he got it. Can someone on this list tell the source of these statements? These visions were around 1846 (during "the shut door" era)
Ernie
Posted on Saturday, November 27, 1999 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Timo:

The quotations you are referring to are in Early Writings, pp. 39-40. She wrote:

"The Lord has given me a view of other worlds. Wings were given to me, and an angel attended me from the city to a place that was bright and glorious. The grass of the place was living green, and the birds there warbled a sweet song. The inhabitants of the place were of all sizes; they were noble, majestic, and lovely. Then I asked one of them why they were so much more lovely than those on the earth. The I saw good old Enoch, who had been translated."

God be with you,

Ernie
Ernie
Posted on Saturday, November 27, 1999 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Timo:

The quotation you are referring to is found in Early Wrtings, pp. 39-40. I am glad the question of the soul is becoming clearer to you.

God bless you,

Ernie

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | Help/Instructions | Program Credits Administration