| Author | Message | ||
| Timo K. |
Adventist have a tendensy to exclude other christians (shut door), and former adventist have a tendensy to exclude (shut door) adventist. Is there some truth in: once-a-shutdoorist-always- a shutdoorist? timo | ||
| Lynn W |
Timo, I'm not a former SDA, but I know the Word of God. For many, many reasons, the Mormons, JWs, Moslems, Bhudists, & many other have excluded themselves. So why should it be hard to understand that the SDAs have also excluded themselves by rejecting the Gospel? | ||
| Timo K. |
Lynn, not all SDA people have rejected the Gospel. I agree that the Gospel has never been central (in general), but there is an Evangelical wing in adventism, that is Christ-centered. I count people like brother Desmond Ford as an Evangelical Adventist. His paper "Good News Unlimited" is full of Gospel. Many EA:s have been persecuted in many ways, and need the support from all evangelical Christians. I don't know if I am right in one observation regarding many posts I have read. I still feel that many make the fruit of Salvation as part of the Rooth. The fruit of Salvation is clearer understanding of the Gospel. Christ's Blood is the Rooth. When we accept Christ, God will see the Blood. God will not see our understanding of the Blood, He will see the Blood. In my opinion the Holy Spirit will (after salvation) lead us to clearer understanding of the Gospel. But understanding is always the fruit, not the Rooth. We can always judge others progress and doubt that people are not sincere, but it is good to rember that it takes often time to get rid of religionist spirits. Shut door mentality does't vanish over one night. And the worst thing former adventist can do, is to regard EA:s as a joke. They have an important work to do. There are much religious addiction in adventist church. There are people, who are addicted to EGW-writings and "signs of the times" watching. To get healed from religious wounds takes time. EA are needed to tell legalistic adventist that Jeesus accepts you as you are, with all legalism and religionism. That has to be told clearly. After that acceptance the healing process starts by the indwelling Holy Spirit. We all came to Christ just as we were. Many adventist have hard time believing that they are saved at the moment they accept Christ, saved in spite of how everything else is with theis lives. Healing from legalism is the work of the Holy Spirit, healing is not the ground of Salvation. (I repeated, since my English might not make the point clear what I want to say). Since many SDA already have hard time believing that salvation is by grace+nothing, they dont need evangelical people telling them that salvation is Christ+ not being a legalistic SDA. timo, | ||
| Susan |
Timo, a few thoughts regarding your comments. First, I think Jesus himself excluded many when He said "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" John 14:6. Anyone who strays from this truth should NOT be considered evangelical. As for an understanding that comes from growing as a Christian, I think this happens. But not an understanding of different or special truths like sda's claim to have. We come to understand more about God and His awesomeness! We also see His will for our lives and we see others with the eyes of Christ. Perhaps someone else can give more insight into the understanding we receive as we grow in Christ. This is just how I see it. The work of the Holy Spirit will produce fruit in our lives. But I think the main emphasis of this fruit will be the love of Christ living in a believer. Also, the fruits of the Spirit are listed in Gal.5:22-23 and Col.3:12-14 these are what I'm working on in my life. Wisdom, knowledge and understanding are very important. But if we don't have the attributes listed in these verses then we don't really belong to God (see 1John 4:7-21). Timo, can you give a bible reference to "understanding" being a fruit? I'd love to check it out. | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Susan, do you think you could give our brother Timo just a little more breathing room? I do think he has a valid point to make, just as you do. I agree with him that there are many within Adventism who have the right idea on Christ's righteousness by his grace plus nothing. I myself have been one for a long time. In fact, I still attend Sabbath School regularly. I consider Adventism to be a mission field "white unto harvest." We can think of our SDA friends as Paul thought of Israel. Adapt Romans 11:25,26: "I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited. Adventism has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of evangelical Christians has come in. And so all Adventists will be saved, as it is written: 'The Deliverer will come from Zion: He will turn godlessness away from Adventism.'" Now isn't that a charitable, Christlike way to look at our Adventist friends? And it's tiresome to be a judge, wouldn't you agree? "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son." John 5:22, NIV. I know your heart is in the right place, Susan, because it comes through in your writing. And nearly all of us have been roughed up by the SDA system. It's okay to smart, even to bleed, but it's not okay to return evil for evil, not that that's what I think you're doing. What I think is, Let Jesus Christ be the judge of the spiritual status of the Adventist people. Wear Christ's yoke and carry his burden, for his yoke is easy and his burden is light. May God bless and bless and bless you, precious one, Jude the Obscure | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Bob, thanks for the tip. --Jude the Obscure | ||
| Susan |
Jude, Thanks for setting me straight. Sometimes my emotions come out quicker then I can think about things. Forgive me if I've come across to harsh. Of course I think we should love sda's especially EA. They're getting closer to the truth. I know we shouldn't judge, but I think there's a standard for those who call themselves evangelical Christians. I think EA differ from the evangelical community. Just like mormons claim to be Christian, but they don't adhere to the essentials of orthodox Christianity. Therefore, they can't be considered Christian at all. My point is, yes we are called to love and minister to everyone in the name of Christ. But just because someone claims to be evangelical, that doesn't necessarily make them one. Sure we can't judge each other. But neither can we compromise on the truths of our faith so that everyone will be comfortable. Jesus always loved, but he never compromised. He was a "stumbling block" to many. He taught them how to "live"(an eternal perspective) instead of being slaves to all of their religious rules. He confronted them with their sinful nature and showed them THE WAY out. He showed them Himself. |
