| Author | Message | ||
| Timo K. |
Susan and Jude, thank you for your comments. I think Jude is right saying:"let Christ be the judge of the spiritual status of the Adventist people". We can judge doctrinal positions by the word of God, but our authority does not reach to spiritual things. By telling that "EA differ from the evangelical community" we make limitations to the Body of Christ. In my understanding of the Bible when we accept Christ and are born again, we are born as a member of the universal invisible Church. Bible is very clear that ALL are members. Religious slavery is like addiction. An alcoholic is addicted to alcohol or is a slave to alcohol. To help an alcoholic to get free it is useless to talk how bad alcohol is. The alcoholic probably knows already that. Those who do not know denies the problem altogether. The same way if we want to help a religious slave, we do no good only pointing how legalistic and wrong he is. That is pointing to the problem and not to the Solution of the problem. There is no power in only knowing the problem. I myself is an recovering addict, and I know that there was know way to turn my life around without Power from above. By telling adventist that you are a hopeless case is nothing new, we all are hopeless cases. But telling them that Christ is not really happy even if you are a EA is a very straings thought to me. There are no classes in the kingdom of God. The division is not between real Evangelicals and then those not so real EA. There is only one division and that is; those who have the Blood and those who do not have. In my opinion the right way of telling a legalistic person the truth in Christ is to show from the Bible that we all are legalistic by nature and need Christ to deliver us. Not much help is delivered with you-are-bad-I- am-good-attitude. 12-step program starts: 1)We admitted we were powerless to alcohol (legalism, shut door mentality)- that our lives had become unmanigable. 2)Came to believe that a Power (Holy Spirit) greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. 3)Make a decision to turn our will and lives over to the care of God as we understand Him. Who-so-ever cames to Christ is drawn by God the Father. This is true for an adventist also. The Blood is the same for Adventist and other Christians. timo, an EA | ||
| Cas |
Jude-You said you go to church on both days, Sat & Sun. I was just curious as to why you do that? What differences in churches do you see? I am not ex-adventist now but a absentventist! It has been so frustrating to see the lack of gospel and straight teaching from the Bible and that only. Even Lonnie Mellashanko is quoting from the clear word Bible and Ellen White on the radio! How do you cope with teachings and sermons that you do not agree with of the SDA's by going to church there? It is too hurtful for me to even go but occasionally. Timo~I think you are so right on most of the time, the SDA church is blessed to have you as a member. | ||
| renie |
Susan.....what is an EA? What do they believe. Are they a group within the sda church? Oh, now I get it. Do you mean Evangelical Adventist? Would someone care to tell me what Evangelical Adventists believe that is different from the plain old garden-variety Adventist? I hear the label applied all the time, but I have never really gotten a grasp as to what their message is. | ||
| Jeralee |
I'd like to know what EA is also! I agree with Timo that we are in no position to judge SDA's. But in viewing my parents and other relatives that are entrenched in Adventism, I must say that I don't believe they are experiencing the same thing I am in walking daily with a sense of Jesus' Presence. I'm not sure exactly why. Does anyone else experience this with SDA friends/family? I don't think it could possibly apply to everyone because one of the greatest spiritual influences on my life to help me learn the gospel was from Dr. Edward Heppenstall (passed away several years ago in his 90's). He was a seminary professor at Andrews and seemed to always be in trouble with the GC about something. He is the one who taught me that the Investigative Judgement was a false doctrine....also that the emphasis in Loma Linda on Moral Influence Theory of the Atonement (Maxwell and Provonsha) was false doctrine. There were (maybe still are) some bright lights that stay true to the gospel. But in general, there seems to be a spiritual cloud of darkness around SDA's. Perhaps some of this comment really needs to be in a new discussion thread. Anyone i s welcome to cut and paste it on a new topic. That's OK with me. I'm new and not sure yet how you do things on this forum, though I have been involved with forums before. | ||
| renie |
Jeralee......good old Dr. Heppenstall. What a wonderful man he was. He was such a maverick. You were indeed privileged to have him as your professor. I had the privilege of sitting a the same table with him one time and found him to be very, very interested in what each of us wanted to share. He did not leave us with the impression that he was the great theologian and we were to listen to only him. I have to come back again and again to my main consern regarding ex-adventists. The one thing we all dislike is when adventists (who are very concerned about our apostasy) pray and work to get us back. But we can fall into same trap in trying to win them over and convince them to leave the sda church. The label is proslylizing. I am very uncomfortable with the idea of proslylizing people from churches where they are happy and comfortable. Let's not worry about converting the churched to our ideas. I could see sharing your experience with someone who is in dispair from some situation or doctrine thrust upon them, but those who are happy.....let them be. renie | ||
| Timo K. |
Renie, my understanding of EA is that they believe that the Blood of Christ is their only basis of Salvation. After that there might be much variation in understanding the doctrines. Many do not believe in Investigative Judgement. Many have problems with EGW and I would say also problems with the Sabbath. Those who hold the Sabbath, do not keep it legalistically the old testament way. My own interpretion of EA:s include a must to attend other Evangelical Christian groups and regard them as fulfleshed brothers and sisters in Christ. (I attend two Finish-speakin churches in Florida, one is a Pentacostal Church and one is a Lutheran Church in addition to English speaking Churches.) The reason I regard attending other Christian Churces so important, is that we need to get used to the idea that God's children are spread everywhere and we all belong to the great family of SAVED BY GRACE. Also there must be a reason that we are either adventist or ex-adventist or friends to adventist. In my opinion we all can help those of our brothern who still are legalistic to find the Blood of Christ. Many have expressed that the SDA-field is a hard place to work, I regard that God really trust us to have brought to this hard soil to work in. Jesus our Lord did't have so easy people to work with either. In alcoholistic circles it is well known, that a former alcoholic can best help the alcoholics. A former adventist who has seen legalism and shut door mentality close by (often in our own lives), can best help those SDA who are in bondage. But the help can not be a co-dependent help. Some people (me included) take often too light the seriousness of legalism and shut door mentality. They are not small problems and not easy to get rid of. Help has to be firm and loving. Those of you who have had problems with addictions know what I am talking about. Finally I agree that our Lord calls us to work in different places. Many might be called to work somewhere else. But only those who do something for SDA are in position to help by constructive critisism. Critisism without helping does't do much good. In my opinion doctrinal critisism should continue regardless of results. IJ-doctrine is my number one critisism that I keep on telling people about. That doctrine has to go is my moto. God bless you all. timo | ||
| Onesismus |
Dear Jeralee: In my opinion after interviewing many people about Evangelical Adventism, EA is like a layer of gospel-frosting surrounding a foundation of Adventist cake. The foundation is still faulty. The gospel frosting just does not stick when the foundation is deception. EA preaches grace and love and salvation by grace alone. But they are still "hung up on the Sabbath" to quote one person. Another person I spoke with stated that she couldn't fully grasp grace and the new covenant within a system that is still entrenched in Adventism. She had to leave her EA church to fully grasp grace. Another person said that at EA churches they are excited about the gospel of grace, but they're never getting to the "meat." She couldn't imagine people were really growing in their spiritual walk while they attended an EA church. |
